I railfanned in Irondale, Alabama for three hours last Saturday. I saw seven trains during that time. I did not see a single ex-Southern Railway high short hood locomotive in any consist. Are they all gone? I know it has been 28 years since the merger with N&W. If I am remembering right, the last locomotives the Southern bought new were GP-50’s in 1980. Those engines had high short hoods. I would think that if the high short hood engines were still out there, I would have seen some of them around a major terminal like Irondale.
They aren't extinct yet. There are several high-nose GP38-2's in the 5000 series that work in the Chicago terminal area and I regularly see some at Landers.
Since that "Land of the Fried Green Tomatoes' sits on the Main line in from the East and is a major artery for NS, my guess is that the units used through there are mostly newer power, and therefore of the 'Short.Short Hood' variety.
The older hoods as Paul previously noted are relegated to local operations and yards. If you see them on the road they are more than likely Not in a lead unit position. If they are used on the road you'll generally see several of them MU'ed together.( maybe a power desk safety in numbers move(?).
What might be more interesting is to catch one of the newer units running lead power, in the long hood forward position.
Best of luck, for a good 'catch ! '
No, they're not - there's also a few still running around here in Pennsylvania, usually on local freights, although I'm no expert and haven't researched their lineage in any detail to see if they're ex-SR or ex-N&W, which also liked that configuration.
Go to this website - www.NSDash9.com - it seems that the owner, Chris R. Toth, just has to be an NS Mechanical Dept. person. Click on his roster page at - http://www.nsdash9.com/roster.html - and scroll down and look at the details for anything that's noted as having "high short hoods."
For example, a couple number groups that I picked at random were the 1625 - 1635 at http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/1625.html = 11 units still active are all ex-N&W SD40-2's with high short hoods. However, the 2835 - 2873 at http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/2835.html = 5 units still active, are all GP38AC's with high short hoods, and all ex-Southern, but 3 were owned or lettered for subsidiaries - 2 were Central of Georgia, and 1 was CNO&TP. Think that kind of reference will do it for you ?
Good luck with your hunt ! If you get any decent photos, please share them here.
- Paul North.
I saw a GP50 with the high hood, NS 7051, this past summer on the BNSF. Which is lucky since I heard they were rebuliding the GP50's to GP38-3's and chopping the nose.
About a month ago we saw two trains on two consecutive Saturdays with both having ex-Southern now NS GP38-2 high-short hood units in the consists...this caused quite a stir in the railfan community hereabouts and it was a great way to end the "warm" weather train watching season before the snow and frigid temperatures showed up.
Up here in New England, Pan Am Rail (formerly Guilford) is still operating some high nose GP40's and an SD45 bought from NS. They also still own some high nose GP35s but IINM these are stored. Some of the high nose units were built for N&W rather than Southern..
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There is one out here East of St. Louis. It runs the local. It is usually in Clinton Co. (New Baden to Centralia) around 3:00. Someone told me that it mainly serves the Bellville News Democrat (one of the few linside industries between Centralia and East St. Louis). Never found out where it terminates at. Maybe I will get lucky enough to have my wife's camera along someday to catch it for ya.
Wasn't N&W a late convert to low hood engines themselves....my recollection is that both SOU & N&W only began getting low hood units when the manufacturers starting charging 'extra' for the high hood version instead of the low hood version.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
fostoria has one or two for locals.might check over in bellevue ohio too.we have seen some in New Haven as well.Once in awhile some are on the wabash in montpelier.Some are in consists on the former NYC line too.Some have the initials under the cab hood too.
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
How did Southern and N&W justify the added expense of a high short hood when everyone else was doing just fine with off the shelf engines from EMD and GE? High hoods equal a greater expense and less visibility for the crew. It has been argued that the high short hood adds protection in the event of a collision..but didn't Southern run its engines long hood forward anyway?
No Ulrich. No one ever said that a high short hood gave more protection in event of a collision. They ran long hood forward, which certainly did give more protection, at the expense of visibility. But since steam locomotives had similar visibility and did fine for 100 years, that was not a real problem.
But why the high short hood then? Other railroads were chopping their hoods down to inprove visibility while Southern and N&W were paying a premium for having the high hoods... There must have been a good reason...otherewise the bean counters at both roads would have nixed the idea.
The high short hood held the steam generator for passenger usage. And there was no premium for a high short hood. That was the standard configuration when they were introduced.
Ulrich, read BaltACD's post regarding the costs.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Read it...but I don't think that's correct...highhoods became an option (low hood standard) after the GP9 or the GP18...the low hood became the standard and anyone who wanted something other than that ie a high hood had to pay a premium...could be wrong on this...but that's my understanding.
I recall a lot of ATSF SD24s delivered with hi short hoods. ATSF spent a lot of money chopping noses on other units, so if it was an option, I think they would have taken it from the factory with a lo short hood. I thought it was GP 20 or 30 that came standard with a lo short hood.
Back to NS, they didn't order low short hood until the GP59s and GP46s. If you see any lo-hood GP 38s or GP40s, those are most likely ex Conrail units.
Still see a high hood on Southern Tier coming in from Buffalo or Gang Mills or on the local.
The controversy over high or low hoods began with the SD18's on Southern and some of the GPs on NW based on concern for engine crew protection. I think it even got mixed around during some union negotiations, too.
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Didn't Norfolk Southern but some either -7';s or -8's with low short hoods but set up to run long hood forward?
Thx IGN
BaltACD Wasn't N&W a late convert to low hood engines themselves....my recollection is that both SOU & N&W only began getting low hood units when the manufacturers starting charging 'extra' for the high hood version instead of the low hood version.
Norfolk & Western went to short hood units in the early 1970's with orders for SD40-2s(although the first order of these was high hood) and U30Cs. They already rostered a fair number of low hood units obtained through mergers (mostly from WABASH and NICKEL PLATE).
IINM, all of their road locomotives were set up for bidirectional running (except perhaps for some of those units from the merger)
Southern kept ordering high noses right until the NS merger..
I wonder if what finally killed off the high short hoods and long hoods forward operation was a combination of: 1) high short hoods becoming extra-cost 'option' items, instead of 'standard' (can't you just see the auto manufacturer influence at work here ? ); 2) maybe an added cost for having to design a variation to have the control stand on the proper side for running long-hood forward; and/ or, 3) the extra cost for dual control stands for bi-directional running ?
And/ or, about 20 years experience with those low short hoods from the NKP, Wabash, and maybe 'run-through' diesels from other roads that had them, might have finally persuaded these guys that there wasn't any compelling performance or safety reason to continue to order them and pay that extra money just to maintain their non-conformist and individualistic nature in this regard . . . oltmannd noted over a year ago in another thread to the effect that NS tends to march to its own drummer even when other railroads think they're right, and sometimes even when they are right . . .
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