Lousy engineer?

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

Back in the day of Cabooses on trains, Conductors and Flagmen could certanily tell who were the GOOD and the BAD engineers were....If you could keep your teeth in you mouth and your postier on the the seat cushions, then you were riding behind a good engineer. With a bad engineer you got knocked all over the cab with every feature of the route that would cause a change in slack in the train.

The old time conductors had long lists of who they prefered to work with and those they didn't want to work with....SELF PRESERVATION!

Always heard about a conductor that would make great stew in the caboose. Crew always treated him very gently since he would feed them well.....

[csxengineer98]

mookie...
haveing a signal drop in your face from a faverable aspect..to a Stop aspect is scary ****... you dont know what just happend in the next block..maybe someone ran a Stop and is comeing at you...it could be anything..... so when your moveing along at a good clip..you got to start to stop right now..... the fastest way is the emergancy..but when you big hole a train..thats when stuff realy can go wrong... cars on the ground and what not....so the rail roads have a rule that covers this....
when a signal drops from a faverable aspect to a stop aspect....Emediatly bring your train to a CONTROLLED STOP..if the track head can be seen to be clear....if it cant be seen.....USE AN EMERGANCY APPLICATION to bring your train to a stop.....
as for it happing today..yes it still happens.... being that the absolut signals are being controlled by some sort of controll station..being the dispatchor or all be it a rarer and rarer situation now a days...a tower opporator....they still have some sort of computer system set up to controll them.... and well....just like your comptuer at home...they crash from time to time.... when a signal computer in a relay box crashes...it drops a red signal ....and most of the time the switches that might be at the controll point...go out of corospondance..meaning that the controll station donst have any controll of them...
so to answer your question..yes it still happens...and it is just as scary now as it might have been 100 years ago...
csx engineer

[Mookie]

Interesting. I can look at both the past and the present and believe me, we have come a long way. Today is so much safer than years ago, in all aspects. But interesting that some things do still exist even with all the modern controls. This has been very informative!

Mookie

[wabash1]

Mookie

See the differances between roads also .. when i find a stop where i had no indication there should have been ( last signal was clear) all we are required to dois stop. no reason to go into emergency. and in most cases i just grab air and stop. but i will say this if i come up on a interlocing and it flips red on me. if i think i can get stopped before the head end fouls the interlocking i will big hole my train otherwise i make sure i wont get hurt and get by the interlocking before it stops. I think what most of us are saying is its like all the millions driving cars there is not 2 peeople who operate the same way we all get the job done and nobody did it wrong.( as long as there wasnt a wreck) same in railroading you can do it several ways some smooth and some not but none was wrong.

[Rodney Beck]

Lc & csx are right about signala dropping out. Last year I was on a 70mph hotshot we were going west bound at the approach we had a clear got around the curve to the control point we had all red signals. The first words out our mouths were oh *** the went into a full service reduction of air at the same time I toned up the dispatcher the train got stopped about 40 cars into the control point. The dispatcher finaly answered us and I told them what happened we were told to proceede west from our location. The engineer told me the young conductor that the same thing will happen to you he along with the others that I have worked with told me that a controled stop is always the best thing to do as your train will all be on the rail and not on the ground. Rodney conductor BNSF

[Anonymous]

I remember riding with an old head while I was training who would jokingly say, "If a signal ever drops in your face make sure you go through it. That way the dispatcher doesn't have to flag you.

[Mookie]

So - you get past a red board that just dropped on you out of the blue (or green) and you have an investigation? Right? Do they still do that? And what is the usual outcome? Malfunction or human error?

Mookie

[Anonymous]

An important rule of thumb which hasn't been brought up...The bad engineers get paid just as much as the good ones, and sometimes more.

[Rodney Beck]

At times you can when the approach signal is a clear (green) you do not have much say so in the mater. I have been on a 124 car coal train in the middle of the night the train weighed 18500 ton we had a signal at a control point drop out on us when we were about 100 yards from it not much anyone can do but bring the train to a control stop by makeing a full service reduction of air and getting the dispatcher on the air letting them know what happened. After that the dispatcher can tell you to proceede from where you are at what ever direction you are going the train can move at restricted speed until the next signal if the signal is clear start to get back up to track speed. Rodney conductor BNSF

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rodney Beck

At times you can when the approach signal is a clear (green) you do not have much say so in the mater. I have been on a 124 car coal train in the middle of the night the train weighed 18500 ton we had a signal at a control point drop out on us when we were about 100 yards from it not much anyone can do but bring the train to a control stop by makeing a full service reduction of air and getting the dispatcher on the air letting them know what happened. After that the dispatcher can tell you to proceede from where you are at what ever direction you are going the train can move at restricted speed until the next signal if the signal is clear start to get back up to track speed. Rodney conductor BNSF

And no investigation?

[zardoz]

Back in 1969 a southbound train was approaching Waxdale (an automatic interlocking on the Milwaukee sub) at 50mph on a clear signal. The college-educated-idiot trainmaster decided to pull an efficiency test on the train. When the TM saw that the train had passed the distant signal around the curve at Hwy 20, he caused the signal at the interlocking to go from green (clear) to red (stop). When the engineer came around the curve and saw the red aspect at the interlocking, he put the brakes in emergency.

You can still see the results of the ensuing derailment on the bridge supports on the frontage road.

[Mookie]

Oh my....that's how you get people killed. I hope it is better than it used to be - but nowdays you can never be sure!

[csxengineer98]

mookie...
when things go wrong on the rail road...it can get realy bad...realy realy realy fast....when your dealing with the tonnages and the size of equipment that we deal with evey day... minor things can ballon into full blown derailments that make CNN in a heart beat...... sometimes its human error.... sometimes its equipment failer... but either way....you just try and block out the bad things that can happen....get your train over the road as safely as you can...and hope the crews on the other trains are doing the same thing..... your life is in your own hands just as much as the lives of the other crews on the road.....and vica-versa.....
csx engineer

[FJ and G]

I don't think you need as much skill to be an engineer as you once did when there were steam locomotives and firemen. For that matter, a conductor doesn't need much skill either. And you don't even have to drive straight since the track will keep you going. You h ave to be pretty stupid to be a bad engineer.

dav

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I don't think you need as much skill to be an engineer as you once did when there were steam locomotives and firemen. For that matter, a conductor doesn't need much skill either. And you don't even have to drive straight since the track will keep you going. You h ave to be pretty stupid to be a bad engineer.

dav

Spoken like one with ZERO experience at doing any of these things. Lets not forget how many people are on the average train crew today versus the full cast of characters in the days of steam.

LC

[edblysard]

FJand G,
Come on down, bring your work boots, (no steel toes, to heavy)
I will hand you a train sheet, conductors wheel count sheet, and work orders, along with my radio and rule book, and watch how you do it.

After all, it really takes no skill to pull and spot 60, 70 loads and empties in places like Hampshire Chemicals, after all, its only chlorine and cayanide acid.
Or we can see how well you double up the Shell train, solid LPG tanks.

Better yet, how about you come flat yard switching with me?

See how well you handle a 45 car cut of mixed loads and empties, with 30 plus pins in it.

Remember, you have to block them out, make sure there is cover, no sliders, and lined up in ZTS order....

As for having to be stupid to be a bad engineer, lets see how well you handle a 100 car switch cut, mixed empties and loads, with no air.

Flat spots on my switcher's wheels will get you 30 days fired, so be careful.

And my helper is a pretty big guy, bang him around too much, he will get up on the motor and explain a few things to you.

By the way, you do know how to MU up a pair, and run them, right?

Its just like the train simulator games, except when you screw up, people die, instead of just hitting reset.

Sorta like flying a F16, its nothing more than a really fast Cessna, right?
(sorry Dan)

Ed

[Anonymous]

The more noise, and the more useless complaints i can get up, the happier I am..

I love making noise, i'd imagine if i was an engineer, i'd do the same thing, make as much noise as humanly possible, maybe its taste, but thats jsut the way I am.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I don't think you need as much skill to be an engineer as you once did when there were steam locomotives and firemen. For that matter, a conductor doesn't need much skill either. And you don't even have to drive straight since the track will keep you going. You h ave to be pretty stupid to be a bad engineer.

dav

wow..what planet did you come from.......non skilled work? wow..this **** is realy deep... come sit in my cab for a while......and see if you got the balls to put your money where your mouth is... see if you can hack it as a ground pounder...or better yet..as an engineer....by bet is on you will run a red one..or even befor you get out of the yard..have the train tore in 2 ......thats if you even got it built in the first place.... i dont know where you get the idea that all you do is get on and go...thier is a hell of alot of work that goes into rail roading long befor a train even hits the road and starts running...like someone said...you have to build it... make sure its built right... and then running it is a big can of worms in itself...you have to be thinking 5 miles ahead..and how ever long your train is behind you...you have to plan for slow orders.... how your going to slow your train down for all speed changes....not to mention for signal indications..... screw 1 of them up...your fired...or worse..dead....
boy...rail roading in the real world IS NOT THE SAME AS SOME STUPID MSTS... befor you open your mouth with stupid comments... try doing it for real once.... and you will find out its not in any ways easy......we make it look easy....becouse....WE ARE SKILLED AND TRAINED TO MAKE IT LOOK EASY!!!!!!
csx engineer

[csxns]

CSX engineer you RULE tell it like it is.

[Rodney Beck]

Hey mookie not much anyone can do when your train is 100 yards and signal drops red on you except control stop it and keep it on the rail and also no investigation. Now I would love to the person who said that it does not take skill to run a train as ed said get your work boots on hire out and see what csxengineer, Ed and I do everyday and let us know what you think. Rodney conductor BNSF

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxns

CSX engineer you RULE tell it like it is.

lol..thanks...no sence in trying to pussyfoot around something..when you can just grab the bull by the horns...lol
csx engineer

[Mookie]

I have the perfect t-shirt for the railroad workers on this forum -

"I am a professional! Do not try this at home!"

Mook

[Rodney Beck]

Sorry csxengineer & Ed for using your names but I could not pass up makeing a comment on the above posting. I still want him to hire out and see how much skill & thought it takes to do the work that we do. Rodney Beck conductor BNSF

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I don't think you need as much skill to be an engineer as you once did when there were steam locomotives and firemen. For that matter, a conductor doesn't need much skill either. And you don't even have to drive straight since the track will keep you going. You h ave to be pretty stupid to be a bad engineer.

dav

In many ways it is easier to work on the railroad 'today' as opposed to 'yesterday'. Of course, depending on which 'yesterday' you are refering to makes quite a difference.

In the earliest days of railroading, only the locomotive had brakes that were operable from the cab, and the brakemen rode on the tops of freight cars and applied/released handbrakes as instructed via whistle signals, and the engineer ran his train with either timetable authority, or "flimsies" as his authority, doing timetable meets at sidings, or running a 'time freight' --running at the correct speed so as to not get to a station to soon or too late, trying to see his orders, his watch, and the track while in the middle of nowhere at night. ANd they frequently worked 16 hours a day.

Fast-forward a few decades to 1973. When I hired out on the CNW, all trains except Suburban were considered 'extras'. the authorization to operate on a segment of track was still the "flimsies"; we had no radios, no dynamic brakes, multiple types of brake valves on a wide variety of locomotive types, and mostly AB brakes on the cars that mostly had brass journals. Switching a long cut of cars meant the brakemen would climb the tall ladders so as to pass hand signals along the train and around curves. Luckily the 12-hour law had recently been passed.

Today, there are multi-channel radios, high-powered locomotives, only the 26L brake valve to learn, strong dynamic brakes, and ABD and ABDX brakes on the cars, with nearly every car having roller bearings. Many of the new locos have air-conditioning, quiet cabs, fridges and water coolers.

However, the trains are much heavier, there are only two (or sometimes only one)crewmen, minus 25 degrees is still minus 25 degrees, the cold rain is still just as cold, and there are so many monitoring devices on the locos now that an Engineer must be so vigilant to be sure he does not even slightly violate a speed restriction or forget to start the bell and whistle going at the ¼ mile marker for each crossing, and so on and so on. The tracks have become dumping grounds for garbage, playgrounds for kids, and havens for lawyers. Crews get shot at, rocks thrown at them, junk hung from overhad bridges at the height to penetrate the cab windows when hit.

It is quite likely that most jobs have become "easier" than they were (how many times do you use the "back" key on your computer to erase lousy typing). Imagine using a typewriter (and making duplicate copies). But does that mean that a person doing the "same" job as years ago does not have the same skill? Not at all! The skills may be applied differently, or towards a different aspect of the operation, but the skill is still there.

And just like in any profession, there are some that just get by, and some that excel at what they do. And some do not have the "knack", and some do.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rodney Beck

Sorry csxengineer & Ed for using your names but I could not pass up makeing a comment on the above posting. I still want him to hire out and see how much skill & thought it takes to do the work that we do. Rodney Beck conductor BNSF

hey brother...
feel free to use my name in vaine anytime you like...lol... no applogizes needed man...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I don't think you need as much skill to be an engineer as you once did when there were steam locomotives and firemen. For that matter, a conductor doesn't need much skill either. And you don't even have to drive straight since the track will keep you going. You h ave to be pretty stupid to be a bad engineer.

dav

wow..what planet did you come from.......non skilled work? wow..this **** is realy deep... come sit in my cab for a while......and see if you got the balls to put your money where your mouth is... see if you can hack it as a ground pounder...or better yet..as an engineer....by bet is on you will run a red one..or even befor you get out of the yard..have the train tore in 2 ......thats if you even got it built in the first place.... i dont know where you get the idea that all you do is get on and go...thier is a hell of alot of work that goes into rail roading long befor a train even hits the road and starts running...like someone said...you have to build it... make sure its built right... and then running it is a big can of worms in itself...you have to be thinking 5 miles ahead..and how ever long your train is behind you...you have to plan for slow orders.... how your going to slow your train down for all speed changes....not to mention for signal indications..... screw 1 of them up...your fired...or worse..dead....
boy...rail roading in the real world IS NOT THE SAME AS SOME STUPID MSTS... befor you open your mouth with stupid comments... try doing it for real once.... and you will find out its not in any ways easy......we make it look easy....becouse....WE ARE SKILLED AND TRAINED TO MAKE IT LOOK EASY!!!!!!
csx engineer

I'd add to that, but nothing needs to be added.

CSX man, it's save to say, you've really sealed this Ziplock bag.

Debate over, you win...

Oh wait I would like to add this-

You see what Train simulator is doing to them? all you have to do is sit at your computer, pretend your running a train! it's REALLY easy then, I would imagine...

but stupid...

Train simulator is like...uhh.... Sex simulator... Nothing even close to the real thing, you don't get the feel, and it isn't reality.

hows THAT for an analogy?

[edblysard]

Rodney, I'm with CSX, quote me when ever you need to, if I wrote it, I intended for other to read it....
And yeah, I would like him to come flat switching with me, or work a real heavy local industry switch job with you, maybe in a really good thunderstorm.

Kevin, how much experience have you had with your sex simulator, and where exactly did you buy it, and does Christa know aboout it?

Ed

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Rodney, I'm with CSX, quote me when ever you need to, if I wrote it, I intended for other to read it....
And yeah, I would like him to come flat switching with me, or work a real heavy local industry switch job with you, maybe in a really good thunderstorm.

Kevin, how much experience have you had with your sex simulator, and where exactly did you buy it, and does Christa know aboout it?

Ed

sex simulator? where can i get one....it has to be better then the sex im getting at home anymore...lol...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Rodney, I'm with CSX, quote me when ever you need to, if I wrote it, I intended for other to read it....
And yeah, I would like him to come flat switching with me, or work a real heavy local industry switch job with you, maybe in a really good thunderstorm.

Kevin, how much experience have you had with your sex simulator, and where exactly did you buy it, and does Christa know aboout it?

Ed

sex simulator? where can i get one....it has to be better then the sex im getting at home anymore...lol...
csx engineer

HEY, CSXEngr quit complaining. At least you're getting some at home...lol...

LC

[Anonymous]

This is why I made the previous statement that unless you have ever run a train you should not comment on the subject. And Microsoft train simulator is the farthest thing in the world from the real thing. In the game, the power always runs good, the brakes always work and the signals are always green. I'd like to see this guy try and get a train with just enough horse power to make it up a 2% grade with a dead engine, or bring a heavy train down a 2% in -30 weather. And then, don't get anything extra for doing it , because that is your job. In most cases if you didn't do it you would at least get an a** chewing.

And just to add something else, I started my career working for a railroad that runs a twelve car passenger train, and just making it run is a lot of work. A lot different then 15,000 tons of coal or a string of loaded tankers, but still a lot of work.