Even WITH Remote Montoring that UNIT BREAKS DOWN IN THE DESERT WITH A FROZEN LOAD YOUR SCREWED, Why by the time you get the message to the RR to stop the train so a Maintance guy can look at this container your done. You also mentioned Tare weight. IT WILL STILL BE HEAVIER There is NO WAY TO MAKE A SEPARATE CONTAINER AND CHASSIS LIGHTER THAT WILL HOLD UP TO RR SERVICE THAT IS STACKABLE. Shippers pay you in Reefers normally by how much you can STUFF ON THERE so if can only haul 43K say while the carrier next to you can haul 46K guess who will get the LOAD. Sorry my last carrier FIRED OWNER OPS FOR TRUCKS THAT WERE TO HEAVY INCLUDING THE 1ST DRIVER EVER AT THE COMPANY. Their contract stated that their truck could weigh NO MORE than 17500 FULL OF FUEL. HIS EMPTY WEIGHED IN AT 18000. You want to KNOW WHO JB'S LAST REEFER LOADS ARE FOR I can tell you I asked a local Jb Driver I am Friends with Coors BEER THATS IT. They service the VA Brewery on a DEDICATED CONTRACT FOR THEM ONE TEMP UNITS TURN ON AND THAT IS IT. I Told him about the new Reefer containers he is in the Intermodal and he goes OH CRAP something ELSE FOR THEM TO SCREW UP. This is coming from one of their Drivers.
JB Hunt Tried Flatbed in the 90's and FAILED BIG TIME TO THE POINT IT ALMOST COLLASPED THE ENTIRE COMPANY. They Spun them off to avoid killing the VAN SIDE. I give this less than a year before it FOLDS for one reason they DO NOT KNOW THIS SIDE OF THE INDUSTRY. Produce and Fresh Meat or even Prepared Meat is a Differant ANIMAL than something that requires TEMP CONTROL. IF YOU GET IT TO HOT with the NEW USDA Regs in the Pipeline and someone gets sick IT IS NOT THE GROWER OR MANUFACTOR THAT GETS HIT IT IS THE CARRIER that HAULED IT.
edbenton Even WITH Remote Montoring that UNIT BREAKS DOWN IN THE DESERT WITH A FROZEN LOAD YOUR SCREWED, Why by the time you get the message to the RR to stop the train so a Maintance guy can look at this container your done. You also mentioned Tare weight. IT WILL STILL BE HEAVIER There is NO WAY TO MAKE A SEPARATE CONTAINER AND CHASSIS LIGHTER THAT WILL HOLD UP TO RR SERVICE THAT IS STACKABLE. Shippers pay you in Reefers normally by how much you can STUFF ON THERE so if can only haul 43K say while the carrier next to you can haul 46K guess who will get the LOAD. Sorry my last carrier FIRED OWNER OPS FOR TRUCKS THAT WERE TO HEAVY INCLUDING THE 1ST DRIVER EVER AT THE COMPANY. Their contract stated that their truck could weigh NO MORE than 17500 FULL OF FUEL. HIS EMPTY WEIGHED IN AT 18000.
Even WITH Remote Montoring that UNIT BREAKS DOWN IN THE DESERT WITH A FROZEN LOAD YOUR SCREWED, Why by the time you get the message to the RR to stop the train so a Maintance guy can look at this container your done. You also mentioned Tare weight. IT WILL STILL BE HEAVIER There is NO WAY TO MAKE A SEPARATE CONTAINER AND CHASSIS LIGHTER THAT WILL HOLD UP TO RR SERVICE THAT IS STACKABLE. Shippers pay you in Reefers normally by how much you can STUFF ON THERE so if can only haul 43K say while the carrier next to you can haul 46K guess who will get the LOAD. Sorry my last carrier FIRED OWNER OPS FOR TRUCKS THAT WERE TO HEAVY INCLUDING THE 1ST DRIVER EVER AT THE COMPANY. Their contract stated that their truck could weigh NO MORE than 17500 FULL OF FUEL. HIS EMPTY WEIGHED IN AT 18000.
I will point out that although the container/chassis combination will weigh more than a trailer, the tractors used for intermodal service can weigh less. For starters, they don't need to carry as much fuel, which is heavy, and they can be day cabs instead of sleepers.
The gross weight limit is 80,000 pounds. Using a container/chassis combo eats of more of that in tare than a trailer, but you can get weight back by using a lighter tractor than over the road operations.
We had International 8600s at 15,100 pounds full of fuel without even trying hard to spec 'em out for light weight.
With were these Containers are going to have to go for Pick ups for Produce and with CVSA 2010 coming INTO EFFECT SLEEPERS WILL BE NEEDED. Here are the locations of Oscar Myer Plants in the Midwest DC in Aurora Plants in Madison WI Davenport IA Columbia MO another in MO 3 in Up State NY DC in PA plant in Fullerton CA DC in City of INdustry CA and Ontario CA and Stockton CA and I know I am missing a few. So your a JB Hunt Reefer Divison Driver you come on duty at 0700 in Chicagowith a load for 0900 Aurora DC YOUR 14 HOUR CLOCK IS RUNNING RIGHT THEN. Make Delivery then are Dispatched to PICK UP IN MADISON 3 Hours away. You have 10 hours drive and 12 hours on your 14 Not an issue however your Container needs a Washout Stop get it cleaned out loose an hour Get to Madison Your load is not ready 5 hour delay AND IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. Down to 6 hours left on your 14 and you have a 4 hour drive back to Chicago. You can not Stop your clock since you DO NOT HAVE A SLEEPER AT ALL. Check bak after 4 hours Find out Meat for Production was DELAYED load will be another 4 hours late BETTER GET A HOTEL FOR THE NIGHT NO WAY CAN YOU LEGALLY GET BACK TO TERMINAL. Thius is what can happen on the outbound side hauling anything reefer.
That and JB FORGETS ONE THING ALL PRODUCE MOVES IN CALI IN THE SUMMER IT IS IN THE NORTH FALL AND WINTER IT COMES OUT OF YUMA. So they need to realize that hauling CANS WILL NOT WORK. See that is WHAT KILLED THE ICE the Drayage when your hauling trailers 400 miles all over the state geting them loaded your eating your Profit margins. Best to haul a load close to were your going to then head to the Produce houses. Between April to about Late September Salinsas is WERE YOUR HAULING VEGGIES FROM. Late September your around Bakersfield area for a month then it is YUMA til April. I did it for 3 years I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. I never had a cargo claim heck I had customers that would only LET ME HAUL THEIR STUFF. Ever been requested to be the rep on a NEW CONTRACT. I was so many times I got SICK OF IT. Try having a load of Strawberries Rasberries on and you have a Evap coil leak. I did took 4 stops for a refil of R22 coming back however Load made it with NO DAMAGE. 28 pallets in perfect shape. They changed the coil out after the load was EMPTY. No JB driver will know how to babysit a load like that or a load of ICE CREAM when it is 120+ in the shade of the Desert to know to wash out the Condensor to help the unit cool better.
Internationals are the HEAVIEST truck out there. I Drove OTR a C120 58 inch Midroof Sleeper with a 430 Detroit 10 Alloy wheel that Full tanks all my stuff and my butt in the seat was 15200. With one of our Heaviest trailers I could still yank 48K and not break a sweat. I had that truck on Route 50 in CO in 1999 the week BEFORE THE 4th of July NO JAKES on it either. Had 48K of Sweetcorn on and man I was glad for Top ICE that day. Monarch pass was FUN.
Am I reading here that old fashioned block iced refrigerator cars were more efficient and safer for the product than mechanical refrigeration? That we should go back to icing stations? I find it hard to believe that today's technology is so bad and deficient that nobody can successfully operate it nor get through the desert without it breaking down!
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Ed:
Yep, that 14-hour rule makes life very interesting, especially with tight deadlines. Just squeaked one in last week, getting out of Sam Adams in Cincy and going to our Hamilton yard, because one would be taking his life into one's own hands sleeping next to the brewery. Electronic logs may take this option away, though. (no cheating!)
With the exception of keg beer, Coors does not need to be refrigerated anymore, ran a load down to Knoxville last friday in a dry van. Agree on IH trucks being very heavy, along with certain KWs (my T2000 with a 53' Great Dane dry van is about 33,400 with full tanks, we have T660s that are about 1500lbs lighter)
The next two years will be interesting times in the trucking industry.....
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
From what I've heard...the JB reefer containers will be for a dedicated account. They'll be circulating in closed loops between certain shippers & certain recivers. They won't be available for the general reefer market. If the project goes well, then in a year or two they may buy additional containers the general market. Or they may just keep it as a dedicated contract service.
The three trucking companies i see here riding NS rails are Lisa motor lines/Stevens transport and FEE all reefer trailers and they are others as well,when i go out watching again will try to remember the names.Back in the day when Carolina Freight was around they had a few reefers and seen a many rideing piggyback on Seaboard Coast Line.
Russell
greyhoundsI will point out that although the container/chassis combination will weigh more than a trailer, the tractors used for intermodal service can weigh less. For starters, they don't need to carry as much fuel, which is heavy, and they can be day cabs instead of sleepers. The gross weight limit is 80,000 pounds. Using a container/chassis combo eats of more of that in tare than a trailer, but you can get weight back by using a lighter tractor than over the road operations.
A very interesting discussion. It sounds like a real breakthrough with a chance to get a lot of the long haul off the roads. I take it this truly will be intermodal, with most of the haul on the rails, and short road hauls from the end hubs? How short, ideally?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
IN Ca your looking at a MINIMUM of 200 MILES from the Yards to the reload POINTS not to mention the Customers for the OUTBOUND LOADS. It was nothing to use a FULL DAY UNLOADING AND LOADING IN CALIFORNIA WITH PRODUCE. If your going to Oregon or Washington EVEN WORSE. That stuff is Grown in the Yakima Valley in Washington Closest Container Yard is Seatlle 350 MILES AWAY Portland is about 300 miles from the Fruit and Nursery areas of Oregon. So NOT HAVING A SLEEPER ON THE TRUCKS IS NOT A OPTION. If your Unload in the LA Basin and your Reload is in Yuma 600 MILE ROUND TRIP. THIS PLAN IS NOT GOING TO WORK. PUT IT THIS WAY I STAND A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING MY CDL BACK WITH EPILEPSY THAT JB HUNT MAKING THIS WORK. Were the stuff ships from changes way to often in the year. Even were Strawberries changes for the winter from Oxnard to up by Salinas. Anyway you cut it they are SCREWED worse than Steam was when the FT came into Production in 1940.
MarknLisa From what I've heard...the JB reefer containers will be for a dedicated account. They'll be circulating in closed loops between certain shippers & certain recivers. They won't be available for the general reefer market. If the project goes well, then in a year or two they may buy additional containers the general market. Or they may just keep it as a dedicated contract service.
That sounds like a sensible approach to entering the market.
One "report" I read was that they were acquiring 2,500 reefer containers. This would be about a $125 million investment. It seems a little drastic for a first step and I question its credibility. Better to get your feet wet in shallow water and not take too much of a risk.
A hope is that JB Hunt will be successful and that other carriers will also begin to acquire equipment for intermodal temperature controlled services in order to compete with JB. Some reefer carriers do buy "Rail Spec" trailers now. But double stack has a tremendous cost advantage over TOFC on the long haul west coast routes.
edbenton IN Ca your looking at a MINIMUM of 200 MILES from the Yards to the reload POINTS not to mention the Customers for the OUTBOUND LOADS. It was nothing to use a FULL DAY UNLOADING AND LOADING IN CALIFORNIA WITH PRODUCE. If your going to Oregon or Washington EVEN WORSE. That stuff is Grown in the Yakima Valley in Washington Closest Container Yard is Seatlle 350 MILES AWAY Portland is about 300 miles from the Fruit and Nursery areas of Oregon. So NOT HAVING A SLEEPER ON THE TRUCKS IS NOT A OPTION. If your Unload in the LA Basin and your Reload is in Yuma 600 MILE ROUND TRIP. THIS PLAN IS NOT GOING TO WORK. PUT IT THIS WAY I STAND A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING MY CDL BACK WITH EPILEPSY THAT JB HUNT MAKING THIS WORK. Were the stuff ships from changes way to often in the year. Even were Strawberries changes for the winter from Oxnard to up by Salinas. Anyway you cut it they are SCREWED worse than Steam was when the FT came into Production in 1940.
But, there's nothing to stop the contstruction of intermodal terminals at Yakima or Yuma - if the money's right. (One of the reasons I favor RoadRailer/RailMate equipment for this service over containers is the ease and low expense of their terminals vis a vis the cost of a container terminal.)
Given the high volumes of this business - I believe the money will be "right" in many cases. The railroad will have to move the empty IM equipment from the unloading terminal to the loading terminal. But so what, the trucker has to basically make that move too. And the railroad can do it a lot cheaper than the trucker can. (The trucker, of course, won't go through a terminal.)
As to Washington, I dispute the distances. The closest container terminal to Yakima is Quincy, WA. A mere 82 miles from Yakima, not 350. Significant production is centered around Wenatchee and Moses Lake which are only 32 and 37 miles respectfully from Quincy. No sleepers required.
Reason I said Seatlle is SIMPLE THAT IS WERE THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE LIVE. You build a warehouse for FOOD were the PEOPLE LIVE. You GROW FOOD WERE THERE IS SPACE yes there may be a terminal 30 or so miles away however JB HUNTS Nearest TERMINAL IS SEATLLE not were you WANT IT. See that is the sticky point JB is the carrier and they need the trucks were the containers are going to be UNLOADED from the trains. Chassis need Repairs so do TRUCKS and the REEFER UNITS all that is EXPENSIVE IF NOT DONE IN HOUSE. A tire done as a Service call will set you back 700-800 bucks by the time all is said and done SAME TIRE in your own shop 400 or LESS. Who has that much cash to WASTE on Mileage or Shop labor time most carriers DO NOT. When dealing with a margin of 1 to 2 CENTS a MILE ANY AND ALL EXPENSES YOU CAN CUT YOU DO IT. That is why I see this as a VERY EXPENSIVE MISTAKE. IF THERE WAS MONEY TO BE MADE IN INTERMODAL REEFER ENGLAND PRIME AND FFE SURE AS HELL WOULD BE DOING IT. Most of their trailers you see on the cars now I asked a few buddies see it helps to have FRIENDS THAT WORK FOR THEM see they are EMPTIES BEING MOVED TO WERE THEIR ARE LOADS. The only carrier that has a Intermodal division is England and they are LOSING THEIR BUTTS ON IT. IF NOT FOR MCDONALDS FRENCH FRIES THEY WOULD NOT EVEN BE DOING IT AT ALL.
Sure build a Intermodal Terminal at Yuma that will sit UNUSED for 7 MONTHS A YEAR for 50 MILLION BUCKS. UP will get right on it. Same in Salinsas. Look at the EMPTY Mileage the UP racks up on the reefers on that Solid Reefer train for UPSTATE NY. Loads in EMPTIES back and they are less than 4 hours away from NYC and close to 4 plants of Kraft Foods 2 for Carriage HOUSE foods and a whole bunch of OTHERS are in the AREA. Why because JUST ABOUT NO ONE WANTS TO USE THE RAILROADS FOR FRESH FOOD ANYMORE. The ICC was NEVER THE ISSUE the Trucks saw a market got it and have sold a service to the point the ALL MIGHTY RAILROADS ARE GOING WE SCREWED UP.
edbenton Portland is about 300 miles from the Fruit and Nursery areas of Oregon.
Your distances in Oregon are a bit high. Although some of the fruit and berry areas are up to 290 miles from Portland (Bandon and Medford), others are 50 -180 miles away all down the 5 in the Willamette Valley from Salem to well south of Eugene.
edbenton The ICC was NEVER THE ISSUE
The ICC was NEVER THE ISSUE
I'm convinced, for previously stated reasons, that you are greatly in error with regards to this statement.
edbentonWith were these Containers are going to have to go for Pick ups for Produce and with CVSA 2010 coming INTO EFFECT SLEEPERS WILL BE NEEDED. Here are the locations of Oscar Myer Plants in the Midwest DC in Aurora Plants in Madison WI Davenport IA Columbia MO another in MO 3 in Up State NY DC in PA plant in Fullerton CA DC in City of INdustry CA and Ontario CA and Stockton CA and I know I am missing a few. So your a JB Hunt Reefer Divison Driver you come on duty at 0700 in Chicagowith a load for 0900 Aurora DC YOUR 14 HOUR CLOCK IS RUNNING RIGHT THEN. Make Delivery then are Dispatched to PICK UP IN MADISON 3 Hours away. You have 10 hours drive and 12 hours on your 14 Not an issue however your Container needs a Washout Stop get it cleaned out loose an hour Get to Madison Your load is not ready 5 hour delay AND IT DOES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. Down to 6 hours left on your 14 and you have a 4 hour drive back to Chicago. You can not Stop your clock since you DO NOT HAVE A SLEEPER AT ALL. Check bak after 4 hours Find out Meat for Production was DELAYED load will be another 4 hours late BETTER GET A HOTEL FOR THE NIGHT NO WAY CAN YOU LEGALLY GET BACK TO TERMINAL. Thius is what can happen on the outbound side hauling anything reefer. That and JB FORGETS ONE THING ALL PRODUCE MOVES IN CALI IN THE SUMMER IT IS IN THE NORTH FALL AND WINTER IT COMES OUT OF YUMA. So they need to realize that hauling CANS WILL NOT WORK. See that is WHAT KILLED THE ICE the Drayage when your hauling trailers 400 miles all over the state geting them loaded your eating your Profit margins. Best to haul a load close to were your going to then head to the Produce houses. Between April to about Late September Salinsas is WERE YOUR HAULING VEGGIES FROM. Late September your around Bakersfield area for a month then it is YUMA til April. I did it for 3 years I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. I never had a cargo claim heck I had customers that would only LET ME HAUL THEIR STUFF. Ever been requested to be the rep on a NEW CONTRACT. I was so many times I got SICK OF IT. Try having a load of Strawberries Rasberries on and you have a Evap coil leak. I did took 4 stops for a refil of R22 coming back however Load made it with NO DAMAGE. 28 pallets in perfect shape. They changed the coil out after the load was EMPTY. No JB driver will know how to babysit a load like that or a load of ICE CREAM when it is 120+ in the shade of the Desert to know to wash out the Condensor to help the unit cool better. Internationals are the HEAVIEST truck out there. I Drove OTR a C120 58 inch Midroof Sleeper with a 430 Detroit 10 Alloy wheel that Full tanks all my stuff and my butt in the seat was 15200. With one of our Heaviest trailers I could still yank 48K and not break a sweat. I had that truck on Route 50 in CO in 1999 the week BEFORE THE 4th of July NO JAKES on it either. Had 48K of Sweetcorn on and man I was glad for Top ICE that day. Monarch pass was FUN.
Don't forget about Atlanta(Norcross), Ga .
Both Aurora, Il & Haslett, Tx have on site services for washouts.
3.The thing about California is generally when I run out there we have a bunch of things my co. moves out of Los Angeles to N. Ca.(Safeway, Albertsons, Lucky's, Costco etc)
4. Remember the 100 mile rule. Your allowed 18hours from when you clock in, if your local.
5. Salinas is spelled SALINAS, nor salinsas.
6. Try some of the newer Volvos or Peterbilts. The ones my company has (4 of) were 23000Lbs with full fuel or A Freightliner Classic XL 22500Lbs. (my co got these for their Million Milers and every driver who had one hated them for the weight)
I'm rambling again. time to go.
Rgds IGN
MarknLisaFrom what I've heard...the JB reefer containers will be for a dedicated account. They'll be circulating in closed loops between certain shippers & certain recivers. They won't be available for the general reefer market. If the project goes well, then in a year or two they may buy additional containers the general market. Or they may just keep it as a dedicated contract service.
edbentonIN Ca your looking at a MINIMUM of 200 MILES from the Yards to the reload POINTS not to mention the Customers for the OUTBOUND LOADS. It was nothing to use a FULL DAY UNLOADING AND LOADING IN CALIFORNIA WITH PRODUCE. If your going to Oregon or Washington EVEN WORSE. That stuff is Grown in the Yakima Valley in Washington Closest Container Yard is Seatlle 350 MILES AWAY Portland is about 300 miles from the Fruit and Nursery areas of Oregon. So NOT HAVING A SLEEPER ON THE TRUCKS IS NOT A OPTION. If your Unload in the LA Basin and your Reload is in Yuma 600 MILE ROUND TRIP. THIS PLAN IS NOT GOING TO WORK. PUT IT THIS WAY I STAND A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING MY CDL BACK WITH EPILEPSY THAT JB HUNT MAKING THIS WORK. Were the stuff ships from changes way to often in the year. Even were Strawberries changes for the winter from Oxnard to up by Salinas. Anyway you cut it they are SCREWED worse than Steam was when the FT came into Production in 1940.
The Nursery areas in Oregon just outside Forest Grove which is 30 miles to the railyards in Portland. 2 years ago, garden nurseries were using rail in a big way. The problem the rails ran into was on the other end. Most garden/nursery stock loads were multiple stop loads(8-12 stops were not uncommon) with driver to tailgate product at receiver . From what I heard towards the end of the season many of the local drivers(who are owner ops) were refusing to haul them as it involves a lot of work. For those of you who want a description think of a whole bunch of potted plants stacked floor to ceiling front to back. (5 to 8 high 6-15 wide) to total something like 45000lbs of plants. and you have pick these up and move to the back of trailer.
By the way on these loads BNSF local drivers were using day cabs to pick up.
edbentonSure build a Intermodal Terminal at Yuma that will sit UNUSED for 7 MONTHS A YEAR for 50 MILLION BUCKS. UP will get right on it.
I would like to remind you that many of the coolers and other grower facilities sit "UNUSED for 7 MONTHS". If you have enough business to justify the investment when it does get used.
At the company were I worked when I asked about rail here is what I was told, this was in the late 80's to mid 90's.
1.On several occasions when problems happened in the field or at the coolers and loading was delayed they could not get the railroad to either a. hold the train b. reschedule load outs.
On one occasion 30 truckloads(with priority reservations) showed up at the gate right at cutoff time. The railroad had been called with an eta when trucks left the cooler. The description I got was that someone stalled the gate so that all these loads missed the train. We had a delivery commitment and the loads had to move, So these ended up on the road. The company had to scramble to cover these with both teams and last minute relays. (the latter was quite expensive)
To add insult to injury the railroad then demanded we pay them for the missed loads, inspite of the fact that the train left fully loaded. On other occasions when my company tried rescheduling the originating terminals(Los Angeles instead of Fresno), they were told that they could only load out of the latter. Now 20 years later managers remember a lot of this frustration.
What happened towards the end was that Fresh produce was being trucked and only the frozen stuff was moving by rail.
One of the impressions I've had about railroads is that they seem to be real good at moving a whole lot of bulk stuff(Grain, Coal) that needs to move from one place to another.
However the small stuff the railroads treat like loose change.And if it falls on the ground so what.
Judging by the number distance errors, I wonder what routes Ed Benton uses between cities?
How about CHI - STL?
OK Ed, I wasn't going to post here any more but, I feel I have to.
You're so convinced your right. That we "CAN'T" do it. What makes you feel like you have better intel that a $4 Billion dollar logistics firm with a large staff of engineers and some of the best minds in the industry? How can you compare your limited experience to the talent within this company? Please, no more CAPS LOCK. You don't need to use color, caps or bold letters to make a point. It doesn't make your points any more solid.
You're right. YOU could not. But JBHUNT can and will. Remember in the mid 1980's when Johnny Bryan Hunt purchased 13,000 rail containers? Remember when that same fella signed an unprecidented contract with BNSF? (And now NS) You know, that company now owned by Mr. Midas Touch hisself, Warren Bufffet. (think he made a bad investment?) So, that being said, YOU think you have it all figured out. That you're right and JBHT is wrong. That's how you feel?
In business you take risks. Some pan out. Some don't. I'd say, from a purely gambling/odds perspective that the odds are HUGELY in favor of JBHT making this a success. And I'm putting my money where my mouth is by investing.
You're so full of "CAN'T" that you can't see any possiblity of "CAN". This is why you never "WILL". Because you've already realized you "CAN'T".
Thanks for your time. But you're no longer contributing anything valuable to this conversation. You information is flawed and so is your logic.
Again, let's revisit this in a year and see how you like the flavor of "Humble Pie". For now, I'm done. Best of luck.
***Apologies to the group if I come across agressive. I'm just irritated by the dialogue and dominating, unbending view of an individual. That, and caps locks come off as shouting. It's very bad forum ettiquette.***
Everything BUT THE BUILDINGS THEY MOVE and the Refrigunits thate. The Units that cool the Produce from the FIELDS are PORTABLE and are MOVED ALL THE TIME. They ship anything that can be moved to between Salinasa and Yuma. The Growers take the Harversters EVERTHING THAT WILL MOVE. Can you do that will RR Tracks. Heck I asked Drivers that are pulling Produce in California if the Coolers in Salinsas EVEN HAD SIDINGS anymore I was told NO. I called our local BULK food Distributor located right on the Transcon mainline why they stopped getting frozen spuds via railcar. THE SPUDS WERE ARRIVING THAWED OUT. These were coming in NEW Cars that were RUNNING OUT OF FUEL AND THE BNSF WAS NOT BOTHERING TO REFUEL THEM IN TRANSIT. The Bulf foods WAREHOUSE lost 2 contracts because of this and 3 MILLION IN ANNUAL SALES.
narig01 [snip] One of the impressions I've had about railroads is that they seem to be real good at moving a whole lot of bulk stuff(Grain, Coal) that needs to move from one place to another. However the small stuff the railroads treat like loose change.And if it falls on the ground so what.
Well said - not new, either, as your story above from the mid-1980's - early 1990's indicates. John Kneiling used to say that the railroad should just stick to the 'big stuff' - driving the train - and leave the marketing and customer relations work to the local outfits who are small enough to care about and respond to such things. That culture may have changed - but I doubt it - there's not a whole lot of evidence that it has.
- Paul North.
Ask a JB Hunt long distance OTR driver what they think. SO Sorry you can not anymore. After he died the Company did what HE SWORE HE NEVER WOULD they got rid of them. JB Hunt for years the only reason THEY have made a profit is Simple they can UNDERCUT anyone on the Longhaul rates with the Intermodal divison that is the ONLY REASON they are still around. 20 Years ago JB was a Just another Training Company that was Worse than Werner and Swift even. I broke down in Champaign at the International Dealer for 2 days in 1994 when JB was still training Drivers. My truck had a Cracked Steering arm and took a couple days for parts to get in. Well in that time 14 JB Hunts were in that shop all from their School 10 for Clutches 3 for U joints 2 needed rear ends and the other 2 were for drivers that overreved and SPUN BEARINGS.
Yet this company cupposedly knows how to haul reefer freight in Containers excuse me if I do not believe YOU. Pulling reefer is a Tottally Differant ANIMAL. When a Reefer Unit goes down you need to wake up and respond to the UNIT and protect that LOAD. You do what ever is NEEDED to keep it in range. Try having an Alt go out in a Reefer in the middle of the night then the Battery goes dead. Is road Maintance going to be smart enough to tell you to put a jumper wire from the Postive Battery post on both the reefer to the truck to get it running. I doubt it Yet any person that has pulled a reefer load will know to do that in a sec. Try having 4 failures on Thanksgiving weekend been there done that yet still protected that load. Some idiot in a suit is not going to KNOW what to do when it is 120 outside reefer unit runs out of fuel because the idiot that pulled it last did not refuel it. Or try geting a reefer unit UNGELLED in the middle of Winter road Maintance is USLESS in that time what matters is the Drivers. JB Hunt pulling Reefer Containers is not going to work they are NOT GOING TO GET THE DRIVERS THEY NEED. No drivers worth their salt pulling reefer will work for them they would rather work for England first and that is BAD. See JB Hunt has such a bad Rep in the OTR industry that even if they pulled all their loads off the rail tomorrow they would never recover what they lost.
I also had a mullet in 1987.
What's your point? This is 2010.
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/J.B._Hunt_Transport_Services_(JBHT)
Look at the % gains. And this is in a "Down Economy"
I'm waiting for something more than conjecture and opinion. Have anything?
OfficeJockey Look at the % gains. And this is in a "Down Economy" I'm waiting for something more than conjecture and opinion. Have anything?
I think you made your point already. Ed seems to be not only "at war with anybody who thinks OTR trucking is easy" but with the companies and maybe himself as well. His information is out of date and consists of unreliable anecdotes that make for fun joking with other drivers, but brings little to the discussion of moving forward. I know that the life of the trucker is hard, but if it is as bad as he makes it sound, you'd think he and all the others would quit. Doesn't look that way.
edbentonEverything BUT THE BUILDINGS THEY MOVE and the Refrigunits thate. The Units that cool the Produce from the FIELDS are PORTABLE and are MOVED ALL THE TIME. They ship anything that can be moved to between Salinasa and Yuma. The Growers take the Harversters EVERTHING THAT WILL MOVE. Can you do that will RR Tracks. Heck I asked Drivers that are pulling Produce in California if the Coolers in Salinsas EVEN HAD SIDINGS anymore I was told NO. I called our local BULK food Distributor located right on the Transcon mainline why they stopped getting frozen spuds via railcar. THE SPUDS WERE ARRIVING THAWED OUT. These were coming in NEW Cars that were RUNNING OUT OF FUEL AND THE BNSF WAS NOT BOTHERING TO REFUEL THEM IN TRANSIT. The Bulf foods WAREHOUSE lost 2 contracts because of this and 3 MILLION IN ANNUAL SALES. The question on BNSF . BNSF's refridgeration units are satelite controlled units. Whomever told you the sidings don't exist is incorrect. I know for a fact that Merril St in Salinas still has rail service as one of the cardboard box companies(Smurfit Stone ?) is located on the street and still gets carloads of cardboard there as well as a monthly shipment of adhesives by tank car. The branches in here still exist look at the below location. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Merrill+St,+Salinas,+Monterey,+California&sll=40.857448,-73.866577&sspn=0.221756,0.676346&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FQE7LwId3wPA-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Merrill+St,+Salinas,+Monterey,+California&ll=36.650483,-121.632922&spn=0.007781,0.021136&t=h&z=16
The question on BNSF . BNSF's refridgeration units are satelite controlled units. Whomever told you the sidings don't exist is incorrect. I know for a fact that Merril St in Salinas still has rail service as one of the cardboard box companies(Smurfit Stone ?) is located on the street and still gets carloads of cardboard there as well as a monthly shipment of adhesives by tank car.
The branches in here still exist look at the below location.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Merrill+St,+Salinas,+Monterey,+California&sll=40.857448,-73.866577&sspn=0.221756,0.676346&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FQE7LwId3wPA-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=Merrill+St,+Salinas,+Monterey,+California&ll=36.650483,-121.632922&spn=0.007781,0.021136&t=h&z=16
In High School read John Kneiling's articles in trains every chance I could.
One other comment, and this is a little frustration, One of the places I see for real change is the movement of cargos that are in the 100000# to 500000# area. These days if you do not have a rail dock you call your local freight broker who sends forth a cattle call for trucks.
The point I'll make here is this is the kind of cluster rail should have, but do not even try for.
Activated the link for you (I hope) -
EDIT - Yep, you're right - Google Maps shows it as ''Smurfit-Stone Container Corp.'', and if you look real close at the northern end of the plant, you can even see a couple of boxcars extending out beyond the weather-roof overhang above the loading dock.
On your other point - 100,000 lbs. = 50 tons, to 500,000 lbs. = 250 tons - that's like from 2 to 10 truckloads, but only 1/2 to 2-1/2 typical railcar loads, unless it loads lightly or is worth a full car's freight for what it is. Since a railcar can carry as much as 3 to 4 trucks on a weight-only basis, that size and 'scale' advantage turns into a disadvantage at the lower end of that range, and for fractional loads that are just over the capacity of a 'whole' or 'even' / rounded number of railcars - although maybe a truck or two could haul the fractional portion. But for shipments of over or in increments of about 200,000 lbs. = 4 trucks or 1 railcar - yeah, that ought to be 'meat on the platter' to be pursued. And as you noted above - it's just pocket change.
The more things CHANGE the more they stay the SAME in Produce hauling. Here was one of my Normal runs in 2000. This was for picking up either in Yuma or Salinas. Would have about 4-6 Pick ups at differant coolers in those areas. Maybe get 2-4 pallets at all but the LAST STOP then at the last stop fill the trailer up. Then head to final destination were all the produce was delivered. What you want to happen is were the cities are hamstrung by here is what you get from the RR's and here is all you get to choose from. See the OTR Industry gave CONSUMERS A CHOICE. BTW it was this way 40 years ago WHEN MY FATHER was pulling Produce out of California in a Ice Bunker reefer trailer, So my IDEAS ARE NOT OUTDATED. What has changed is the IDIOTS IN THE DISPATCH OFFICE AND THAT IS IT.
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