fixture I'm wondering if Mr. Walin's book deals with GM&O's Gulf Coast Rebel which operated between St.Louis & Mobile and discontinued in 1958. What was it's schedule and equipment? From photos, it looks like train was powered by Alco PA's or DL-109's but did it have sleepers and diners to the end? I saw train leaving Mobile in late afternoon in mid '50's so I'm guessing it was on an overnight schedule to St.Louis.
I'm wondering if Mr. Walin's book deals with GM&O's Gulf Coast Rebel which operated between St.Louis & Mobile and discontinued in 1958. What was it's schedule and equipment? From photos,
it looks like train was powered by Alco PA's or DL-109's but did it have sleepers and diners to the end? I saw train leaving Mobile in late afternoon in mid '50's so I'm guessing it was on an overnight schedule
to St.Louis.
I do not know for certain, but the spring 1958 consist may have been operated until the end.
Johnny
A little factoid that may be of some interest. One of the results of the UP-SP merger was that UP abandoned most of the south end of the CNW Nelson-St. Louis line in favor of a route compirsed of the north end of the CNW route, trackage rights over the I&M to Springfield, and the former GM&O (Alton) line from Springfield to the St. Louis - East St. Louis area. So there is likely more freight traffic over the former GM&O Springfield-St. Louis segment than over the Joliet-Springfield line. It's possible that the new UP intermodal yard at Joliet will generate more traffic over the Joliet-Springfield route, but I don't know this as a fact.
To my knowledge, UP has overhead trackage rights over the Joliet-Chicago portion of the old GM&O (Alton) line now owned by CN (IC), with rights to enter and exit at connections. These rights were originally acquired by SP (SPCSL) when it acquired the GM&O line south of Joliet in the Chicago, Missouri & Western bankruptcy. The rights also extend beyond the former GM&O to Markham Yard on IC and Hawthorn Yard on CCP. CMW also had similar rights over the former GM&O and the IC to Markham, but I don't think they had rights to Hawthorn. UP also has trackage rights over EJ&E which it can use to reach Proviso via West Chicago. As you surmise, these rights were not affected by the CN-EJ&E merger
Last year the UP was running a Proviso - Alton and Southern type train via Nelson, down to Peoria then the I&M to Ridgely and GMO to St. Louis. Also there were coal trains coming up the GMO. So, yes you are correct that freights were (are) running more frequently south of Ridgely.
There are occassional grain trains running north of Springfield, also a Bloomington - East St. Louis turn and the local.
ed
gabe MP173 One would think in Central Illinois there would be a little grain carried. I noticed a couple of elevators on the line, but not too many. ed I think that is one of the biggest reasons I was surprised to hear the line was built to cater to local traffic. The now-abandoned, south of Farmersville IC from Springfield to Saint Louis had grain towers in Glenarm, Divernon, Waggoner, Famersville, Litchfield, and Marine. And, those are just the ones that are still standing. I am pretty sure my Dad told me that there was another large one around Alhambra. In contrast, I know the Alton had a large grain bin in Carlinville, but that and a smaller one in Auburn are the only ones I can think of on that line. Gabe
MP173 One would think in Central Illinois there would be a little grain carried. I noticed a couple of elevators on the line, but not too many. ed
One would think in Central Illinois there would be a little grain carried. I noticed a couple of elevators on the line, but not too many.
I think that is one of the biggest reasons I was surprised to hear the line was built to cater to local traffic. The now-abandoned, south of Farmersville IC from Springfield to Saint Louis had grain towers in Glenarm, Divernon, Waggoner, Famersville, Litchfield, and Marine. And, those are just the ones that are still standing. I am pretty sure my Dad told me that there was another large one around Alhambra.
In contrast, I know the Alton had a large grain bin in Carlinville, but that and a smaller one in Auburn are the only ones I can think of on that line.
Gabe
That's why I find Glendinning's book so good. He starts with a detailed, lengthy description of Illinois as it was with regards to transportation circa 1840. Basically, there was no transportation away from the rivers. And river transportation was none too good.
Some of us have read the stories of one A. Lincoln working on a "flatboat". They'd build this cheap watercraft, basically a raft with sidewalls, thing and load it with grain, hogs, whatever. And then they'd float it down the Sangamon River, to the Illinois River, to the Mississipi River on to New Orleans. There they'd sell whatever was in the flatboat, along with the flatboat, and walk back. It worked as long as the rivers weren't too low from lack of rain, too flooded from too much rain, or frozen. Can you imagine living with a flatboat load of hogs from Springfield to New Orleans. It's a wonder any human or pig arrived alive.
Anyway, Lincoln did this at least once and was smart enough to know there had to be a better way to connect the state capital with the rest of the world. He was one of the principal promoters of a railroad (new tech then) linking Springfield with Alton, IL. (Alton being basically far enough south so that the Mississippi south of there doen't freeze over very often.)
After his days on a flatboat Lincoln became a lawyer in a "Circuit Court" system. The court (judge and lawyers) literally moved around a "Circuit" going from county seat to country seat holding trials. After the horse thieves were hung, they moved on. Glendinning describes land transportation in Illinois at that time as just plain awful. It was bascially slogging through mud or snow at a slow pace. Moving goods overland was basically impossible save for pack animals (and they had difficulty.). Lincoln probably had a thought that today would be translated as "Gosh, this sucks."
When he got back to Sprinfield he promoted railroad building. He even bought a few shares for himself.
Anyway, the C&A got built. First to the south, then on up to Chicago as it became evident that Chicago was becomming the metropolis of the Midwest. It wasn't built to haul local traffic. It was built to haul anything or anyone that needed to get somewhere. There were really no other good alternatives. When Blackstone took charge of the C&A the railroad network was developing rapidly. He was the one who focused the C&A on local traffic. Not its builders.
It wasn't a bad plan for its time. Braidwood, IL is known today for its nuclear power plants. Back then it was a coal field that fed Chicago. Not a bad piece of business for the C&A. And if a local farmer had a load of corn or hogs to go to Chicago or St. Louis, he shipped his production on the C&A.
Focusing on the local traffic wasn't a bad decision at the time. But Blackstone remained in charge for decades and he didn't see the changes comming. When the Braidwood coal was gone and when the hogs for Chicago moved by truck the C&A became an empty railroad. Except for those passenger trains between Chicago and St. Louis. They eventually ceased to cover their cost and the railroad was passed from hand to hand.
greyhounds, that (above) is a nice little essay. What could be a dry dull piece of history is an entertaining little read. Sure, some of it is fanciful, but it rings true, and there're a lot of factual background in it to support it.
- Paul North.
Greyhound:I concur with Paul North. Well written. Today's trip to the library will include checking the railroad section for Glendinning's book.
BTW, I do recall the name, but wasnt it spelled differently for the truckign company, or am I just forgetful.
Moody's lists Glendenning Motorways, Inc. as having W.A. Glendenning, L.D> Glendenning, and W.G Glendenning as directors. Any connection between the author and the truckers?Ed
According to one of my customrs, who is adjacent to GMO line in Coal City, they stopped using the line several years ago. Amtrak trains ran on the line, but switched.
No trains on the line, except for a recent line that pushed empites for storage.
An excellent source of information about GM&O and Alton passenger service is Issue No. 67, "Rebels at Relay Depot," published by the Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis Historical and Technical Society in 2007. It's still listed under back issues available on their Web site: http://trra-hts.railfan.net. GM&O was a relatively young railroad, being formed in 1940 by merger of the Gulf, Mobile & Northern and the Mobile & Ohio. The Alton was acquired in 1947. From 1904 until the late 1940s the Alton and the Burlington cooperated on through passenger service between St. Louis and Kansas City, using the Alton west of Francis, Mo., and the Burlington east. This faded away by the late 1940s, although Burlington Northern ran a through freight over this route until 1974 and GM&O ran a motor train from Bloomington, Ill., to Kansas City until April 1960. Model Railroader had a big article on it in the late 1950s. By the spring of 1970 GM&O had the once hotly competitive Chicago-St. Louis passenger market to itself, as IC and N&W had cut back their remaining trains to Chicago-Springfield and Chicago-Decatur respectively. I did ride the Midnight Special in 1967. The sleeping car came off at the end of 1968 when the Pullman Co. discontinued operation of sleepers and turned that duty over to the individual railroads. Some, such as GM&O, Missouri Pacific and Kansas City Southern, simply dropped sleeper service.
- Nebraskafan
nebraska:Thanks for the info. I do recall now the St. Louis - KC routing now for the Burlington.
We certainly have learned quite a bit about the GM&O.
greyhounds gabe MP173 One would think in Central Illinois there would be a little grain carried. I noticed a couple of elevators on the line, but not too many. ed I think that is one of the biggest reasons I was surprised to hear the line was built to cater to local traffic. The now-abandoned, south of Farmersville IC from Springfield to Saint Louis had grain towers in Glenarm, Divernon, Waggoner, Famersville, Litchfield, and Marine. And, those are just the ones that are still standing. I am pretty sure my Dad told me that there was another large one around Alhambra. In contrast, I know the Alton had a large grain bin in Carlinville, but that and a smaller one in Auburn are the only ones I can think of on that line. Gabe He starts with a detailed, lengthy description of Illinois as it was with regards to transportation circa 1840. Basically, there was no transportation away from the rivers. And river transportation was none too good.
He starts with a detailed, lengthy description of Illinois as it was with regards to transportation circa 1840. Basically, there was no transportation away from the rivers. And river transportation was none too good.
It kind of sounds like Indiana today, only more cultured and with farmers who waive to you as you drive by . . .
P.S. Thanks for the detailed response . . . although I was hoping I could tap more of your knolwedge about IC grain movements on the Gilmore sub south of Springfield. I grew up next to that line, I only saw two trains on it in my life. One what could have only been a fluke, and the train that ripped the line out. That line is my equivalent of your CIM and Ed's Evansville IC line.
MP173 BTW, I do recall the name, but wasnt it spelled differently for the truckign company, or am I just forgetful. Moody's lists Glendenning Motorways, Inc. as having W.A. Glendenning, L.D> Glendenning, and W.G Glendenning as directors. Any connection between the author and the truckers?Ed
Spelling has never been my stroong point.
I just remember my X had a lot of trouble with that truck line. She was routing freight for Amoco Chemical. They made yeast up by the Twin Cities and Glendenning/Glendinning was the only motor carrier with "authority" to serve their facility.
People here talk about some railroads waiting until they got a full trainload to move freight. Well that truck line didn't move a trailer load of LTL until they had a full trailer.
So she went through the whole drill. Found other carriers who wanted to serve the plant and got them to apply to the fascists regulators in Washington, DC for permission to allow them to send a truck to the plant. She wrote letters supporting the new carriers to said fascists. Glendeninng/Glendinning lost its monopoly and she switched the LTL freight.
Then a salesman from Glendenning/Glendinning came in to see her trying to get the freight back. He was instructed to go there. Can you imagine how he felt walking in the door?
Yes, I can imagine, as I have done that.
Ah the good old days of LTL freight.
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