The book Gulf, Mobile, and Ohio Color Pictorial by Dick Wallin is currently on my desk (and other reading locations thruout the house). Mr. Wallin thankfully recorded the GMO in color, primarily in the Central Illinois region in the 60's.
While it was a very photogenic railroad (for Central Illinois standards), there just isnt too much written about the company in the book (or elsewhere) other than a brief description of the passenger trains between St. Louis and Chicago. Granted GM&O had the best route between the cities for passenger service, but what about their freight operations and the general conditions of the railroad?
There just isnt too much information on the web regarding GMO. Other fallen flags have considerable archives of operating material.
Despite the differences in size (GMO = 2734 miles vs IC 6761), there were similarities in their railroads. For instance, the average length of haul were similar (289 vs 267). IC seemed to have more traffic density (total tonnage in 1971 - GMO 27.1million tons, IC 82.2 million tons). Both seemed to have similar tonnage percentages of coal, lumber, and chemicals.
Operating ratios for both were similar (freight OR's in the 74% range in 1971). While IC had all of those air rights in Chicago, GMO had oil royalties in Mississippi.
Both were north south carriers in an east west economy. By the relative short length of hauls (280 or so), both were unable to leverage their 900 mile Chicago to Gulf Coast hauls.
I tend to think of GMO as two railroads, the old Mobile and Northern (south of St. Louis) and the Alton Route north of St. Louis.
Who can shed light on the GMO? Greyhound and Jeaton, do you have recollections from your IC days? Obviously, GMO was pretty much reduced to secondary citizenship after the merger and probably rightfully so. On the maps, it appears IC had the edge in routes.
How much freight was handled on the St. Louis - Chicago line? I know there was coal destined for Joliet, but what else?
I travel frequently down I55 and up until a few years ago had the old B&O CPL signals to keep me entertained, but those are gone. Not much freight exists on the line now, but there is promise for growth south of Joliet?
What is with the two lines south of Joliet? I could never figure that out.
ed
MP173 Not much freight exists on the line now, but there is promise for growth south of Joliet? What is with the two lines south of Joliet? I could never figure that out.
Not much freight exists on the line now, but there is promise for growth south of Joliet?
One word: mergers.
There is a very good book "The Chicago & Alton Railroad" by Gene V Glendinning. (do you remember that last name from your trucking days?) It will give you a very good history of the Chicago-St. Louis-Kansas City part of the GM&O. I loaned my copy to a history buff friend in Mason County, IL several years ago. He's still got it. Great insights on transporation in Illinois from Lincoln's early years forward.
http://www.niupress.niu.edu/niupress/Scripts/Book/bookResults.asp?ID=393
The line was headed for decades by a man named "Blackstone". He was adamant about a business model that focused on local traffic. He didn't like interchange traffic because he felt it put control of the C&A in the hands of connecting rail carriers. This worked until some spoilsports built paved roads alongside the rail line.
When I got to the ICG freight traffic on the line was sparse at best. The line served communities that didn't generate a lot of freight business. The Chicago to Joliet portion was the exception. There are still refineries on that line. That's why the ICG kept Chicago-Joliet when they dumped the rest of the old C&A off Dwight did have RR Donnely. They printed phone books. Phone books are "Hot" freight and we moved 'em in intermodal service. They used the Kankakee ramp until it was closed, then they used IMX in Chicago.
Other communities on the line were known for Illinois prisons (Dwight for women. Pontiac for men),. Illinois politicians (Springfield.) and university students (Illinois State at Normal). Not much freight there.
The line was close to the Illinois River, so most of the grain went via the barges. We did get grain trains out of Cargill, IIRC from near Pontiac.
There was one freight train per day between Chicago and Kansas City. That was switched to an IC routing north of Springfield after the ICG merger. We originated one train a day at Bloomington for St. Louis.
A unique feature of the old C&A lines was that the engineers were members of the UTU, not the BLE. Traffic was so sparse that the union honcho approached the railroad with a proposal to run two person crews on short, fast, frequent intermodal trains between Chicago and St. Louis. It was too good to pass up and the "Slingshots" were born. They were a financial bust, but the line was bascially otherwise empty so they kept running. ($85 a trailer St. Louis to Chicago)
I can't think of a rail line that's had more owners over a few years. It was C&A. Then the B&O bought the C&A. Then they cast it aside. Then the GM&O took over. Then the ICG. The ICG sold it off to the CM&W, which didn't last a year. Then the SP bought it for Chicago access, dumping the Kansas City line in the process. Now the UP has it.
UP and Amtrak seem to have big plans for the line. I wish them well. The prisons, politicians and students are still there.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I believe the song "Midnight Special" predated the train, just as the song Wabash Cannonball did. I have a blues record featuring songs of Huddie Ledbetter, known as Leadbelly, and one of the songs is the Midnight Special. The story is that there was a jail in Houston, TX that had a railroad line running past. The belief among the inmates was that if the train's light shone on a man, he would be the next to be released.
You can attach as much credence to this story as any other oral tradition.
CShaveRRSo, Ken, which of those prisons inspired the song The Midnight Special? The GM&O had a train of that name. It also ran close to the prison in Joliet (not Stateville, the other one). Just need to know which one could see an ever-lovin' light.
From the mid-60s until I left the Chicago area in 1972, "Chicago's Fine Arts Station," WFMT opened its Saturday night "Midnight Special" program with Leadbelly singing the song "Midnight Special." Since G.M.& O.'s train of that name passed near the Illinois State Prison close to Joliet, I always thought the song was about that train and that prison. But the Houston idea advanced elsewhere in this thread makes more sense.
Out of Chicago Union Station during the years leading up to Amtrak, the G.M.& O.'s "Midnight Special" was the only train I remember seeing that still carried section sleepers. A portion of one of the Pullmans had just upper and lower berths. The "Midnight Special" operating overnight between Chicago and Saint Louis came off a few months after the "Infamous September 1967 Slaughter" of the mail contracts.
The portion of the GMO/CA that’s southwest from Springfield, IL to Kansas City with branches that go to Jacksonville, IL and Godfrey, IL are owned by KCS. For awhile in the 1990s this was known as the Gateway Western. Since the early 2000s this trackage is now fully KCS.
I don't know. I do remember that I was setting up a sales call on the EJ&E in Joliet once. The "J Guy" was giving me driving directions. He told me I'd be at a stop light between two prisons. And the next morning, I was. The railroad should have promoted itself as "The Prison Belt Route."
I checked out the Midnight Special (train not song) in my trusty, tattered 1956 Official Guide. It carried three sleepers to St. Louis. And as has been pointed out, the sleepers had a lot of open sections. I don't know why they stayed with so many section sleepers on this route at this late of a date. One of the sleepers was an all room 13 double bedroom car. The train also had a section sleeper from Chicago for set out in Springfield. This car operated six months per year. It ran on the competing IC Night Diamond the other six months (You could keep on sleeping after the set out. They didn't make you get off at 2:00AM)
The third overnight competing train on the route was the Wabash Midnight. (Nothing "special" about it I guess.) It actually had more sleeping cars than the GM&O train. It had four through sleepers to St. Louis. But again, it was "section heavy" for some reason.
You didn't want to have a few drinks and get confused in St. Louis Union Station if you were taking a late night train. Leaving for Chicago on different railroads were the Midnight Special and the Midnight. Leaving for Kansas City on the same railroad as the Midnight was the Midnight Limited.
It always amazes me about rail mileage. Three different competing railroads between Chicago and St. Louis. Three different routes. GM&O miles: 283.8. Wabash miles: 285.7. IC miles: 294.2. That's 10.4 miles difference between the shortest and longest route. How did they do that?
Thanks for the replies. I didnt expect this much, as there is very little written, nor is there much web reference material.
First, I was vague on my "two lines south of Joliet" remark....there are two ex GMO lines south of Joliet. One runs via Wilmington and the other pairs with the ex Santa Fe to Coal City, then strikes out south for a few miles and rejoins the line. What was the purpose of that route? I have a customer adjacent to the Coal City line and while the track appears to be in decent shape (stick rail, no weeds, B&O type signals), I have never seen trains. Why is that track there?
Why does UP run it's freights via the ex C&EI? I do not have inside info, but logic would indicate that most freight from/to Chicago bypasses St. Louis from the Southwest. Thus it would be routed across the Mississippi River at Thebes then up the line thru Salem, Findley, and Villa Grove.
A secondary reason for the non freight on the C&A would be that CN owns the track north of Joliet and trackage rights would be required. Probably most important is the terminal yard situation in Chicago. UP has Yard Center on the ex C&EI and Proviso on the ex CNW. Access to either yard would be difficult via C&A, although I believe they run a train from St. Louis to Springfield, then up to Peoria and Nelson, then to Proviso.
With the new logistics center building south of Joliet, does that indicate that southwestern intermodal will shift to the C&A routing north of St. Louis, instead of the C&EI?
Finally, far back in the recesses of my memory, I recall a family friend who worked for the IC on a track inspector unit (similar to Sperry). He told me shortly after the GM&O merger that the CEO of GM&O, Glenn Brock, had to give his personal approval before any train was dispatched out of Glenn Yard. If memory serves me, no train was dispatched until it had sufficient tonnage/cars or revenue. Sort of like a Chicago Great Western type of operation? Does anyone recall if the GM&O trains were large?
Lets face it, how much freight moves today between Chicago and St. Louis? I cannot imagine there is much. But, the line sure has potential for passenger travel, with all those politicians, prisons, and colleges.
I looked up the GM&O system map from an official guide and found a couple of interesting things. The official guide says that Coal City Illinois was served by the GM&O with freight service only but is not listed in the timetable; even though the line to Coal City is a double track line. The single track shown on the timetable map from Joliet to Mazonia Illinois carried the passenger trains.Mazonia Illinois does not appear on either the GM&O timetables or on an Illinois road map. Braidwood Illinois does appear on both the GM&O timetable and Illinois map. GM&O train 5 The Mail served Braidwood southbound only.
Before I-55 was built the GM&O ran along side US 66 and even though it was a double track line I saw only one freight on the line when I drove in 1970 from Bloomington north to Joliet and Chicago. It was a local powered by an RS3.
A friend of mine who rode GM&O passenger trains when she was going to college used to rave about them and say they were the best trains she rode.She rode the Abraham Lincoln between 1962 and 1966.
MP173First, I was vague on my "two lines south of Joliet" remark....there are two ex GMO lines south of Joliet. One runs via Wilmington and the other pairs with the ex Santa Fe to Coal City, then strikes out south for a few miles and rejoins the line. What was the purpose of that route? I have a customer adjacent to the Coal City line and while the track appears to be in decent shape (stick rail, no weeds, B&O type signals), I have never seen trains. Why is that track there?
Ed, that line running beside the ex ATSF from Joliet (Plaines) to Coal City (Pequot) was operated as paired track. The ATSF line hosted westbounds, while eastbounds ran on the Alton / GM&O / ICG line between Plaines and Pequot. ICG sold that 16 mile section to ATSF in 1985, two years before the CM&W sale. After the sale, ATSF trains used both tracks, while CM&W (and later SP) trains used the ex Alton. I'd guess that would explain why you don't see any traffic in Coal City south of Pequot. Sorry for the delayed reply.
If you're looking for more reading on the GM&O, you might be able to get The Gulf, Mobile and Ohio, by James Hutton Lemly (1953), and GM&O North, by Robert P. Olmstead (1976).
Just for grinns. With all this mention of "Coal City" it is a must.
What Chicago centric movie movie contained references to Coal City? Who played "Joliet Jake"? What did he do, for who, and why did he do it, in Coal City that put him in a Joliet prison?
The Midnight Special continued to run until April 30, 1971. However, the sleeping cars were withdrawn sometime around 1968. I remember seeing it once at Chicago Union Station with a fair amount of mail and express and a heavyweight coach carrying the markers.
One thing that always came through to me concerning the GM&O....the last day any equipment saw any form of cosmetic attention was the day it left the paint shop during it's manufacture. In viewing the GM&O in person and in pictures I don't believe I have ever seen a piece of equipment that looked *** and span.....The Abe, The Ann and anything else, freight or passenger all were well soiled with road grime.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
greyhounds Just for grinns. With all this mention of "Coal City" it is a must. What Chicago centric movie movie contained references to Coal City? Who played "Joliet Jake"? What did he do, for who, and why did he do it, in Coal City that put him in a Joliet prison?
He only did it to pay for the room for the Band.
Gabe
I have long suspected that UP only held on to this line so as to keep it out of the hands of KCS. However, now that KCS apparently has different designs on getting to Chicago, UP still seems to be putting something into the line. So, I guess I was wrong.
Ken,
Don't take this the wrong way, I really appreciate the knowledge that you have given me on here. However, I could have swore about 2 or 3 years ago, you had a post on this line that was more or less the opposite of your recent one--I seem to remember you said it was designed as a bridge line and that is the reason it does not have a lot of local traffic. I seem to remember it in the context of a Chicago Greate Western thread. If I am starting to lose my mind in my old age, just tell me. But, I found that original post very informative and am wondering whether you no longer believe it is accurate. I found it convincing, it seems that throughout the line's history, it was more or less a bridge line.
gabe Ken, Don't take this the wrong way, I really appreciate the knowledge that you have given me on here. However, I could have swore about 2 or 3 years ago, you had a post on this line that was more or less the opposite of your recent one--I seem to remember you said it was designed as a bridge line and that is the reason it does not have a lot of local traffic. I seem to remember it in the context of a Chicago Greate Western thread. If I am starting to lose my mind in my old age, just tell me. But, I found that original post very informative and am wondering whether you no longer believe it is accurate. I found it convincing, it seems that throughout the line's history, it was more or less a bridge line. Gabe
I don't know Gabe, I sure don't recall saying that. But then, I'm far older than you. It would be interesting to see the post and figure out what I was talking about.
IIRC from the C&A book (covering my bases here) the Santa Fe wanted the C&A as a St. Louis access in the late 1940's, even offering to operate a St. Louis section of the Super Chief and El Cap as part of the deal. Maybe that's a clue. I can't think of what traffic the C&A would bridge
Decades before the Santa Fe had looked at the C&A for Chicago access. They built their own line east from Kansas City instead.
Edit to add something I just thought of:
I may have been talking about the B&O control of the Alton. This happened years after Blackstone's passing. The B&O had a line into Springfield, IL from the east. (it went on to Beardstown.) By acquiring control of the Alton they could use its Springfield-Kansas City line as a "Bridge" to reach the Santa Fe and UP at Kansas City. Maybe that was it?
gabeDon't take this the wrong way, I really appreciate the knowledge that you have given me on here. However, I could have swore about 2 or 3 years ago, you had a post on this line that was more or less the opposite of your recent one--I seem to remember you said it was designed as a bridge line and that is the reason it does not have a lot of local traffic. I seem to remember it in the context of a Chicago Great Western thread.
Gabe, hope you don't mind me butting in. Could you be thinking of this thread on the Chicago Missouri and Western?
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/37970.aspx?PageIndex=1
Regarding cleanliness and appearance of GM&O PASSENGER trains: Rode in the Chicago - St. Louis corridor frequently 1967-1970. I didn't think the trains were that grimy, looked better than most NYC and PRR equipment (except the Broadway) at the time. Raving about the trains? Excellent chicken dinners in the modernized heavywieght dining cars, food as good as any dining cars anywhere. No trouble finding a seat. heating and air-coditioning worked, inteiors clean, including restrooms, on-time or close to on-time performance. I regarded each business trip on the GM&O as a mini-vacation. Only lack of a really smooth and quiet ride (both reasonable but not state-of-the-art) prevented an A+ evaluation.
Well, actually, it is me who is losing my mind. Dale was correct in the post I was referring to (thanks Dale, and no problem). Your post was completely consistent with what you said above. I think I was just remembering lack of much local traffic combined with the B&O interchange that ultimately failed.
It is strange to think of that line as concentrating on local traffic. Like you, I grew up near that line. The only industry that I can readily think of on that line between Springfield and Saint Louis is a steel distributor in Carlinville. And, the only reason that is on the line is because it was an IT customer, and it had to use the Alton after the IT folded in 81. In contrast, the Wabash line had--and has--numerous local industries that it serves between Springfield and Saint Louis (although very few amounting to a lot of car loads per year).
Thanks for helping me clear that up, I have always been interested in that line and I wanted to know if it was intended as a bridge line or a line that concentrated on local industries.
One would think in Central Illinois there would be a little grain carried. I noticed a couple of elevators on the line, but not too many.
I'm wondering if Mr. Walin's book deals with GM&O's Gulf Coast Rebel which operated between St.Louis & Mobile and discontinued in 1958. What was it's schedule and equipment? From photos,
it looks like train was powered by Alco PA's or DL-109's but did it have sleepers and diners to the end? I saw train leaving Mobile in late afternoon in mid '50's so I'm guessing it was on an overnight schedule
to St.Louis.
Concerning the Coal City line, Glendinning's book mentions Gladstone bought the line when it was offered to him but he only wanted the part opposite Braidwood to Joliet. He should have also bought the part to Streator, also; Santa Fe bought it to get to Chicago and laid track parallel to the C&A.
He also mentions that there was so much mining around Braidwood, switch engines delaying trains, etc., that he built a line south of the mine area over to Coal City to connect with the line he just bought to avoid those delays. Never saw a town around Mazonia in my youth; it was just a junction.
When I was working Mazonia tower (1950), there was double track to Coal City and single track north towards Elwood and Joliet. I have pictures of the switches and moving points crossing that allowed the double track from the south to continue northwest (actually more like due north) to Coal City. I don't believe the current single track toward Coal City is connected at the Coal City end.
Art
MP173 One would think in Central Illinois there would be a little grain carried. I noticed a couple of elevators on the line, but not too many. ed
I think that is one of the biggest reasons I was surprised to hear the line was built to cater to local traffic. The now-abandoned, south of Farmersville IC from Springfield to Saint Louis had grain towers in Glenarm, Divernon, Waggoner, Famersville, Litchfield, and Marine. And, those are just the ones that are still standing. I am pretty sure my Dad told me that there was another large one around Alhambra.
In contrast, I know the Alton had a large grain bin in Carlinville, but that and a smaller one in Auburn are the only ones I can think of on that line.
CShaveRRKen, I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the germane parts of the movie to answer your third question. They said he was in Stateville, but, of course, that didn't look like a good, old-fashioned prison, so they showed the other one (Joliet Correctional Center--it just hit me) instead. I'm grinning anyway, though!
I'm grinning anyway, though!
I know the problem. It was difficult to not focus on the Carrie Fisher segments.
Great shots of the Chicago "L" at night though. (keeping this train related.) Also of a Great Lakes freighter. (They threw in the competition.)
So, ya see, "Joliet Jake" was a band leader who went to prison for robbing a gas station in the much herein discussed Coal City, Illinois to pay the band's bar bill. Before that unfortunate incident he had left the Fisher (a very attractive female person) character standing at the alter. After his release from incarceration she appeared throughout the movie trying to kill him with rocket propelled grenades, automatic weapons, etc. (I think they call this a "subplot".)
I guess you actually have to see the movie for yourself to really appreciate all this. It is, IMHO, one of the truly great cinima classics.
Nice "L" shots too..
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