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QUOTE: Originally posted by cjm89 Could someone please post a link to the article? I'd like to read it. I've heard Kansas City Southern doesn't like foamers that much, but I haven't went railfanning on their line since before 9/11.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Read the article, but it left me kinda out there, it really didnt seem to draw any conclusion, other than railfaning is almost an exclusively male hobby, Ed
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QUOTE: Shutterbugs beware (The following story by Tom Hester Jr. appeared on the Trenton Times website on May 20.) TRENTON, N.J. -- Impromptu photography is a lifeblood for railroad enthusiasts and for those who work in the transportation industry, but NJ Transit is trying to put a stop to it, claiming that for security reasons it has the right to control whether people take photos of its property. The mass transit agency's policy has raised civil liberty concerns among rail enthusiasts and an expert in photography rights. "There's no legal authority for anyone, including government, to prohibit photography of just about anything in public view," said Bert P. Krages, an attorney from Portland, Ore., who specializes in photographer's rights. Although the agency hasn't publicized it, a policy was implemented at least as far back as 2000 that requires permits for people taking photos of agency property, according to NJ Transit spokeswoman Janet Hines. The free permits can be obtained from the agency's real estate division, and it usually takes a day to obtain one after an application, which can be faxed or e-mailed, is completed, Hines said. The agency, she said, fears people taking photographs of trains, railroad structures and other equipment may not always be train buffs, especially after the March 11 train bombings in Spain and the 9/11 terrorist attacks, although the policy was put into effect before both events. "Things have obviously changed very much in the way we secure our system," Hines said. "This is one of those things where our goal is to make sure our passengers are safe, our employees are safe and to protect our infrastructure." Hines didn't know if NJ Transit police had issued any summonses or confiscated anyone's cameras and film for not obtaining a permit. Railroad buffs said the policy has especially become troublesome after the River Line light-rail system began operating this spring between Camden and Trenton, attracting people with cameras to take photographs of the sleek, shiny new trains. "This is obviously cause for concern," said railroad enthusiast Douglas John Bowen, president of the New Jersey Association of Railroad Passengers. Lyndon Henry works as a transportation planner and data analyst for the Capitol Metro mass transit system in Austin, Texas, and as a consultant to www.lightrailnow.org. He said NJ Transit's policy is a "huge concern" to people working in the public transit profession "since much of our work depends upon the use of photos to inform the public about rail transit issues." "NJ Transit seems to be taking a pretty extreme attitude," Henry said. Bowen and Henry said forcing people to get a permit to take photographs creates so much bureaucracy it makes it nearly impossible for people either visiting or using NJ Transit services to take spur-of-the-moment photographs. "You don't have to be a civil libertarian on the fringe to be concerned about stuff like this," Bowen said. Henry, in an e-mail, wrote, "The ban on photography, using the pretext of the war on terrorism, invokes serious civil liberties and free speech concern. Furthermore, it threatens the traditional ongoing historic documentation of rail transit operations." Krages, who authored a pamphlet on photography rights, said NJ Transit's policy is just the latest attempt to restrict photography, citing incidents at industrial plants, bridges and sea vessels across the nation since the terror attacks. Such restrictions, he said, "aren't really rooted in real-life events." Krages said he knew of no terrorist event or crime that has relied upon photographs to be carried out. He likened amateur photographers to a "neighborhood watch" that works with police to prevent crime. "From my perspective, I don't think public photography presents any type of risk and can actually be beneficial in improving security," Krages said. NJ Transit should welcome photographers, Bowen said. "They're going to be the ones to see something suspicious," he said.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy Seems that NJ Transit is taking this pretty seriously too, apparently this article says you have to apply and obtain a permit before you can take pictures of NJ Transit trains and property. Here's the quote off the BLE site from this morning. QUOTE: Shutterbugs beware (The following story by Tom Hester Jr. appeared on the Trenton Times website on May 20.) TRENTON, N.J. -- Impromptu photography is a lifeblood for railroad enthusiasts and for those who work in the transportation industry, but NJ Transit is trying to put a stop to it, claiming that for security reasons it has the right to control whether people take photos of its property. The mass transit agency's policy has raised civil liberty concerns among rail enthusiasts and an expert in photography rights. "There's no legal authority for anyone, including government, to prohibit photography of just about anything in public view," said Bert P. Krages, an attorney from Portland, Ore., who specializes in photographer's rights. Although the agency hasn't publicized it, a policy was implemented at least as far back as 2000 that requires permits for people taking photos of agency property, according to NJ Transit spokeswoman Janet Hines. The free permits can be obtained from the agency's real estate division, and it usually takes a day to obtain one after an application, which can be faxed or e-mailed, is completed, Hines said. The agency, she said, fears people taking photographs of trains, railroad structures and other equipment may not always be train buffs, especially after the March 11 train bombings in Spain and the 9/11 terrorist attacks, although the policy was put into effect before both events. "Things have obviously changed very much in the way we secure our system," Hines said. "This is one of those things where our goal is to make sure our passengers are safe, our employees are safe and to protect our infrastructure." Hines didn't know if NJ Transit police had issued any summonses or confiscated anyone's cameras and film for not obtaining a permit. Railroad buffs said the policy has especially become troublesome after the River Line light-rail system began operating this spring between Camden and Trenton, attracting people with cameras to take photographs of the sleek, shiny new trains. "This is obviously cause for concern," said railroad enthusiast Douglas John Bowen, president of the New Jersey Association of Railroad Passengers. Lyndon Henry works as a transportation planner and data analyst for the Capitol Metro mass transit system in Austin, Texas, and as a consultant to www.lightrailnow.org. He said NJ Transit's policy is a "huge concern" to people working in the public transit profession "since much of our work depends upon the use of photos to inform the public about rail transit issues." "NJ Transit seems to be taking a pretty extreme attitude," Henry said. Bowen and Henry said forcing people to get a permit to take photographs creates so much bureaucracy it makes it nearly impossible for people either visiting or using NJ Transit services to take spur-of-the-moment photographs. "You don't have to be a civil libertarian on the fringe to be concerned about stuff like this," Bowen said. Henry, in an e-mail, wrote, "The ban on photography, using the pretext of the war on terrorism, invokes serious civil liberties and free speech concern. Furthermore, it threatens the traditional ongoing historic documentation of rail transit operations." Krages, who authored a pamphlet on photography rights, said NJ Transit's policy is just the latest attempt to restrict photography, citing incidents at industrial plants, bridges and sea vessels across the nation since the terror attacks. Such restrictions, he said, "aren't really rooted in real-life events." Krages said he knew of no terrorist event or crime that has relied upon photographs to be carried out. He likened amateur photographers to a "neighborhood watch" that works with police to prevent crime. "From my perspective, I don't think public photography presents any type of risk and can actually be beneficial in improving security," Krages said. NJ Transit should welcome photographers, Bowen said. "They're going to be the ones to see something suspicious," he said.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
QUOTE: I'd love some sort of ID, especially if it had an official flavor to it. Then, if you were sitting in an appropriate area, watching the action, and were challenged, you could show the ID and say "It's OK officer..." Of course, I'm sure that getting the ID would involve somehow acknowleging that you shouldn't trespass, etc, etc; so getting caught doing so would be that much worse.
Pump
QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68 People always fear what they don't understand. That ceramic thimble foamer hasn't a clue as to why we'd want to watch trains, so we are to be feared. I work with enough security specialists to know that they can be pretty paranoid. In times like this, people actually listen to their blathering. Groups such as us are our own worst enemies in one way - we keep a low profile, partly from years of doing a little surreptious tresspassing to get a little better shot, partly because people don't understand why we do what we do, so we don't even bother to try explaining. People don't know we exist, so when we come to the fore - watch out! When I visited the Durand, MI depot last fall there were several folks quietly watching the action, talking, and listening to their scanners; I had camera in hand. Hardly a threat, unless a fear-monger gets ahold if it. Then we are spies, and worse. I'd love some sort of ID, especially if it had an official flavor to it. Then, if you were sitting in an appropriate area, watching the action, and were challenged, you could show the ID and say "It's OK officer..." Of course, I'm sure that getting the ID would involve somehow acknowleging that you shouldn't trespass, etc, etc; so getting caught doing so would be that much worse.
TG3 LOOK ! LISTEN ! LIVE ! Remember the 3.
QUOTE: Originally posted by toyomantrains [brThat's an excellent idea! Maybe Trains could develope and sponser such (and pass the cost on to us) It could be a good standardized way to inform the rr police that your a fan and not the enemy.
QUOTE: That's what it talks about in the above article about NJ Transit. Before you take pictures they want you to fill out an application and send it in to NJT and then they will send a copy of your "license" (free by the way) to you. Who knows what kind of info they want from you in order to issue a license...
QUOTE: Subways get shutter bugged (Originally published on May 21, 2004) By PETE DONOHUE NY DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Smiling will still be allowed on the subways, but - sorry, tourists - taking pictures may soon be banned. Transit officials, at the request of police, yesterday proposed prohibiting photography and videotaping in the subway system and on buses - hoping to thwart terrorists from gathering information for an attack. It's just one of several proposed revisions to the Transit Authority's Rules of Conduct that include these other hard-to-enforce no-nos: Walking between subway cars. Placing a foot on a subway seat, bus seat or a platform bench. Wearing skates, standing on a skateboard or riding a scooter. Violators could get slapped with tickets ranging from $25 to $100. "The world we live in has changed dramatically," TA President Lawrence Reuter said as he announced the first proposed revision of the rules in a decade. "These changes are intended to enhance security and safety." Some riders railed against the new rules, which must be approved by the full Metropolitan Transportation Authority Board. "All that stuff is just common New York behavior," said Patrick DeShond, 18, a college student from Brooklyn. "I think the city is so desperate for money that this is what it's come to." Others said some of the rule changes make sense - especially penalizing those who soil seats with dirty shoes. John Erboso, 46, a messenger from Queens, supported a photo ban, saying it's hard to tell a tourist from a terrorist. "You don't know who to trust anymore," he said. But Christopher Dunn, associate legal director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, called the photo ban "grossly excessive." "There is no reason a tourist taking a snapshot in a subway car should be interrogated by the police or face the prospect of being taken into custody," he added. NYPD Transportation Police Chief Michael Scagnelli said police would use discretion in issuing summonses to shutterbugs. But violators could be questioned and subjected to background checks, he said, and have their film confiscated. The TA said exemptions would be granted to the press, and others who have obtained "written authorization" from the agency to snap pictures. With Nick Lacher
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Yeah, I forgot, a "real, highly trained terrorist" has to have super detailed photographs before they can begin to plan their attack, after all, it isnt like they can just ride the thing, and look for themselves....because we all know Homeland Security has managed to keep all of the bad guys out of the country, just like the dope sumgglers, and the illegal immigrants, stopped cold at the borders. Seig Heil....wait, uhhh, no, I guess it is the right goverment to say that to.
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