I remeber ditch lights on the hind end of business cars on the DL&W in the 50's anyway. Employess used to grumble that they were on because one of the VP's lost a quarter along the right of way once and they were still looking for it. As for locomotive ditch lights, it does offer the engine crew a better look at what's ahead both on and off the track. And when in the "blink" or "wink" mode, certainly gets one's attention. Interestingly, ditch lights have been added to subways and other rapid transit, too. NY subways and PATH never (rarely if ever) had headlights, but did have two ditch type lights in the lower front panels or on the aticlimber only recently getting the wink mode. Of course, European roads never had headlights but opted for the running ditch lights instead.
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enr2099I'm surprised no one mentioned the reason Ditch lights were introduced in Canada. They were for better crew visability in mountainous terrain.
Great thread gentlemen. Here is a quote from CanadianPacific2816's excellent history thread.
MARCH 17, 1974
A CP Rail freight train hits a rock slide and derails at Spences Bridge, British Columbia, killing two crew members. This lead to the eventuall installation of ditch lights on Canadian trains.
I can't locate the exact date but it took about a year for the mandatory ruling to come down and a bit more time to implement it. I'm guessing but I seem to recall it happening in early 1976.
AgentKid
EDIT: I was trying to get a better handle on the date and after looking at the Winter 1999 edition of "CP Tracks", I see where the SD40-2's in the fleet at the time were modified during 1977. Units built after that time had them installed at the factory. The article didn't say when the other types of engines were fitted with ditch lights.
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
the two lights are very bright and are required to be on before going across a public grade crossing. The idea to that the bright light will cause the driver to stop their car and wait for the train to pass. Amazingily, some do stop.
Modelcar.....But being seen at a crossing surely is an added bonus.
.....But being seen at a crossing surely is an added bonus.
Oh, most definately.
Quentin
Modelcartree68Here's someone's image of a BC Rail locomotive with both "ditch" and "auxiliary" lights That engineer certainly should have adequate light out in front of him to monitor what is out there in his path and just where he is. And to easily be seen approaching street crossings.
tree68Here's someone's image of a BC Rail locomotive with both "ditch" and "auxiliary" lights
That engineer certainly should have adequate light out in front of him to monitor what is out there in his path and just where he is. And to easily be seen approaching street crossings.
The lights on the BCR engines are to light up the ROW and shine around corners as there are many slide prone areas on tight curves on the BCR. Visability at xings was never a consideration.
It's the same with the CN and CP, the ditch lights were developed to light up more of the ROW. Visability at crossings was not much of a consideration.
ModelcarComparing that to times past when UK engines used no lights....That's one I'll never understand.
Comparing that to times past when UK engines used no lights....That's one I'll never understand.
Here's someone's image of a BC Rail locomotive with both "ditch" and "auxiliary" lights. If you look carefully, you can see that one set is angled while the other points straight forward.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Most, but not quite all, NS units have ditchlights on both ends. The control switch controlling the direction of the ditchlights on some of these units is located on the back wall but the setting switch (continuous on, flashing, or off) is always located somewhere on the control stand.
I personally believe ditchlights have contributed to a reduction in grade crossing accidents.
oil-electricI've posted a photograph of a cab unit with lights labeled. Robert in Port Townsend
I've posted a photograph of a cab unit with lights labeled.
Robert in Port Townsend
Most excellent. Now the question turns back to the OP, to which set of lights is your question referring to?
enr2099cprtedIn Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2) No, you're thinking of the wrong lights, they are called ground lights.
cprtedIn Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2)
In Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2)
No, you're thinking of the wrong lights, they are called ground lights.
I lived in Prince Rupert from 1957 through 1959. Those are my photos, of the SW1200RS and the three Geeps (also fitted with ditch lamps.) As a teenager, hanging around the shops all my free time. While these lights have the appearance of being "removable" it is only because they were an "afterthought" add-on. The terrain on the Prince Rupert Extension DEMANDED lighting to allow the crew to "see around" corners for the frequent slides and, in the winter, washouts. Diesel took over both freight and passenger by the end of 1957, and all diesels were fitted out with these lamps, which were "focused" on the doors of the Engine Facility, crossing beams 50 to 100 feet in front of the power unit. Again, they had NOTHING TO DO with warning motorists (how many track crossings do you reccon there were between Jasper and Prince Rupert back in those days?) They had EVERYTHING TO DO with crew safety, just as running long nose forward. Crews hated the cab units, not only for the rough ride on branch line rail, zero protection when hitting a rock slide. Robert in Port Townsend www.oil-electric.com.
zugmann The only standard is "none" .
True enough. I know our Century has the switch on the back wall, but it's within an arms reach of the engineer. I think the RS3 does have the ditch light switch on the stand. Don't remember where the F's are...
We probably switch them more than most considering the mileage we run, as we move the loco from one end of the consist to the other twice each trip, twice a day.
tree68 Many older locomotives that have had the auxiliary lights retrofitted have a switch someplace other than the control stand for them. One popular spot is on the back wall of the cab, on/near the electrical cabinet. Many are rotary switches, with positions for "off," "front" and "rear," assuming the locomotive has such lights on both ends.
Many older locomotives that have had the auxiliary lights retrofitted have a switch someplace other than the control stand for them. One popular spot is on the back wall of the cab, on/near the electrical cabinet.
Many are rotary switches, with positions for "off," "front" and "rear," assuming the locomotive has such lights on both ends.
Depends on RR and who retrofitted them. Some of our clunker engines have the ditchlight function on one of the slider switches. Never seen one on the back wall though.. that would be a pain to turn on and off. (the breakers are back there, of course). Rotary switches are usually for the headlights, and may give you dim, medium, bright (depending on model and installer). Some have the ditchlights wired to the headlight switch so they only can come on with the headlghts on bright, while others have head and ditchlights independent. then you may have a switch to designate whether you want front or rear ditches, or they may be wired to the reverser. You also may have a steady/flashing switch, or even a 30sec. push-to-play flashing ditchilght button.
The only standard is "none" .
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I'm surprised no one mentioned the reason Ditch lights were introduced in Canada. They were for better crew visability in mountainous terrain.
zugmannNothing really high-security about them. Just your basic run-of-the-mill slider switches. ground lights, gauge lights, walkway lights...
AgentKidBigJimif you will look on the control stand, the swith is clearly labeled "Ground Lights"Jim, thank you. When I read your first post this earlier this morning, the first thing I thought of was that fifty years ago "ditch lights" must have been a slang expression for what engineers were turning off and on with a switch marked "ground lights". Thank you for confirming this.I have looked at various interior photo's of diesels over the years but I don't think I ever saw those switches. I have wondered if those pictures weren't altered for security or safety reasons. Not that I am complaining if they were. No need for anyone to go looking for links to pictures to post, Jim has answered my question.AgentKid
BigJimif you will look on the control stand, the swith is clearly labeled "Ground Lights"
Jim, thank you. When I read your first post this earlier this morning, the first thing I thought of was that fifty years ago "ditch lights" must have been a slang expression for what engineers were turning off and on with a switch marked "ground lights". Thank you for confirming this.
I have looked at various interior photo's of diesels over the years but I don't think I ever saw those switches. I have wondered if those pictures weren't altered for security or safety reasons. Not that I am complaining if they were. No need for anyone to go looking for links to pictures to post, Jim has answered my question.
.
Ground lights are located near trucks under cab, and have nothing to do with Ditchlights or Auxiliary headlights.
cprted BigJim They were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer. In Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2)
BigJim They were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer.
They were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer.
Well, here in the good 'ol USofA, if you will look on the control stand, the swith is clearly labeled "Ground Lights" and the front ones are clearly labeled "Ditch Lights".
If you cannot see, hear, and feel an approaching train, I doubt that additional lights will help you a bit.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
BigJimThey were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer.
The three lights are not only easier to see, they make it easier to judge the distance that the train is from you. It's why some motorcycles have two headlighs.
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