In the late 1990s they past the regulation mandating twin auxileary headlights mounted on the frame of the locomotive, as a safety device, to warn pepole of trains.
Anyone care to expain on how this is a 'safety' device, and how they came up with this as a use?
The safety part comes from the easily recognizable triangle formed by the three lights. When you look down the tracks, it's hard to confuse that with a reflection.
I suspect that the concept grew from the actual ditch lights used by Canadian railroads for a number of years, although those were focused on the opposite ditch. I've seen pictures of locomotives with both auxiliary and ditch lights.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
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.....And beyond the triangle of lights coming at a person at a RR crossing....some RR's engine ditch lights flash off and on as the horn is blowed for the crossing.
This really does make an eye catching scene that a train is approaching.
Quentin
Modelcar .....And beyond the triangle of lights coming at a person at a RR crossing....some RR's engine ditch lights flash off and on as the horn is blowed for the crossing. This really does make an eye catching scene that a train is approaching.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I've got a question. Diesel's have a light which shines down into the ditch below the cab windows on each side. Under the frame and above the lead truck. When I was a kid, those were called "ditch lights". What are they called now that ditch lights are on the front of the loco, pointed forward and into the opposite ditch as Larry say's. Thank you.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
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They were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer.
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The three lights are not only easier to see, they make it easier to judge the distance that the train is from you. It's why some motorcycles have two headlighs.
BigJimThey were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer.
If you cannot see, hear, and feel an approaching train, I doubt that additional lights will help you a bit.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
cprted BigJim They were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer. In Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2)
BigJim They were never called ditch lights. They are called "ground" lights. They are used by the engineer at night to see when the train is just starting to move or how fast he is moving while making a coupling. You look at the ground, not the speedometer.
Well, here in the good 'ol USofA, if you will look on the control stand, the swith is clearly labeled "Ground Lights" and the front ones are clearly labeled "Ditch Lights".
Ground lights are located near trucks under cab, and have nothing to do with Ditchlights or Auxiliary headlights.
BigJimif you will look on the control stand, the swith is clearly labeled "Ground Lights"
Jim, thank you. When I read your first post this earlier this morning, the first thing I thought of was that fifty years ago "ditch lights" must have been a slang expression for what engineers were turning off and on with a switch marked "ground lights". Thank you for confirming this.
I have looked at various interior photo's of diesels over the years but I don't think I ever saw those switches. I have wondered if those pictures weren't altered for security or safety reasons. Not that I am complaining if they were. No need for anyone to go looking for links to pictures to post, Jim has answered my question.
AgentKidBigJimif you will look on the control stand, the swith is clearly labeled "Ground Lights"Jim, thank you. When I read your first post this earlier this morning, the first thing I thought of was that fifty years ago "ditch lights" must have been a slang expression for what engineers were turning off and on with a switch marked "ground lights". Thank you for confirming this.I have looked at various interior photo's of diesels over the years but I don't think I ever saw those switches. I have wondered if those pictures weren't altered for security or safety reasons. Not that I am complaining if they were. No need for anyone to go looking for links to pictures to post, Jim has answered my question.AgentKid
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmannNothing really high-security about them. Just your basic run-of-the-mill slider switches. ground lights, gauge lights, walkway lights...
Many older locomotives that have had the auxiliary lights retrofitted have a switch someplace other than the control stand for them. One popular spot is on the back wall of the cab, on/near the electrical cabinet.
Many are rotary switches, with positions for "off," "front" and "rear," assuming the locomotive has such lights on both ends.
cprtedIn Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2)
In Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2)
No, you're thinking of the wrong lights, they are called ground lights.
I'm surprised no one mentioned the reason Ditch lights were introduced in Canada. They were for better crew visability in mountainous terrain.
tree68 Many older locomotives that have had the auxiliary lights retrofitted have a switch someplace other than the control stand for them. One popular spot is on the back wall of the cab, on/near the electrical cabinet. Many are rotary switches, with positions for "off," "front" and "rear," assuming the locomotive has such lights on both ends.
Depends on RR and who retrofitted them. Some of our clunker engines have the ditchlight function on one of the slider switches. Never seen one on the back wall though.. that would be a pain to turn on and off. (the breakers are back there, of course). Rotary switches are usually for the headlights, and may give you dim, medium, bright (depending on model and installer). Some have the ditchlights wired to the headlight switch so they only can come on with the headlghts on bright, while others have head and ditchlights independent. then you may have a switch to designate whether you want front or rear ditches, or they may be wired to the reverser. You also may have a steady/flashing switch, or even a 30sec. push-to-play flashing ditchilght button.
The only standard is "none" .
zugmann The only standard is "none" .
True enough. I know our Century has the switch on the back wall, but it's within an arms reach of the engineer. I think the RS3 does have the ditch light switch on the stand. Don't remember where the F's are...
We probably switch them more than most considering the mileage we run, as we move the loco from one end of the consist to the other twice each trip, twice a day.
I lived in Prince Rupert from 1957 through 1959. Those are my photos, of the SW1200RS and the three Geeps (also fitted with ditch lamps.) As a teenager, hanging around the shops all my free time. While these lights have the appearance of being "removable" it is only because they were an "afterthought" add-on. The terrain on the Prince Rupert Extension DEMANDED lighting to allow the crew to "see around" corners for the frequent slides and, in the winter, washouts. Diesel took over both freight and passenger by the end of 1957, and all diesels were fitted out with these lamps, which were "focused" on the doors of the Engine Facility, crossing beams 50 to 100 feet in front of the power unit. Again, they had NOTHING TO DO with warning motorists (how many track crossings do you reccon there were between Jasper and Prince Rupert back in those days?) They had EVERYTHING TO DO with crew safety, just as running long nose forward. Crews hated the cab units, not only for the rough ride on branch line rail, zero protection when hitting a rock slide. Robert in Port Townsend www.oil-electric.com.
enr2099cprtedIn Canada, the CROR identifies them as "Ditch Lights." (Rule 17.2) No, you're thinking of the wrong lights, they are called ground lights.
I've posted a photograph of a cab unit with lights labeled.
Robert in Port Townsend
oil-electricI've posted a photograph of a cab unit with lights labeled. Robert in Port Townsend
Most excellent. Now the question turns back to the OP, to which set of lights is your question referring to?
Most, but not quite all, NS units have ditchlights on both ends. The control switch controlling the direction of the ditchlights on some of these units is located on the back wall but the setting switch (continuous on, flashing, or off) is always located somewhere on the control stand.
I personally believe ditchlights have contributed to a reduction in grade crossing accidents.
Here's someone's image of a BC Rail locomotive with both "ditch" and "auxiliary" lights. If you look carefully, you can see that one set is angled while the other points straight forward.
tree68Here's someone's image of a BC Rail locomotive with both "ditch" and "auxiliary" lights
That engineer certainly should have adequate light out in front of him to monitor what is out there in his path and just where he is. And to easily be seen approaching street crossings.
Comparing that to times past when UK engines used no lights....That's one I'll never understand.
ModelcarComparing that to times past when UK engines used no lights....That's one I'll never understand.
Modelcartree68Here's someone's image of a BC Rail locomotive with both "ditch" and "auxiliary" lights That engineer certainly should have adequate light out in front of him to monitor what is out there in his path and just where he is. And to easily be seen approaching street crossings.
The lights on the BCR engines are to light up the ROW and shine around corners as there are many slide prone areas on tight curves on the BCR. Visability at xings was never a consideration.
It's the same with the CN and CP, the ditch lights were developed to light up more of the ROW. Visability at crossings was not much of a consideration.
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