It seems like everyone is pretty excited about PTC being installed on the nations railroads since the Chatsworth accident, but i as a conductor think it is a terrible idea in the sense that once it is put in place on the railroads say goodbye to conductors on over the road freight trains. Engineers on BNSF have already ratified a new contract where they agreed to do the job of the conductor in single man cabs. So from a conductors stand point i think PTC is a terrible idea in the fact that eliminates the need for a second pair of eyes in the cab.
Just wondering everyone's thought on this.
Thanks
keep paying those dues to the UTU as they sold your job along time ago. and are milking you conductors til there is none
I most definitely will keep paying my dues to the UTU, a union that fights for its members unlike the BLET who votes out their own jobs and crosses their own picket lines.
My guess is that you won't see PTC anywhere a passenger train is not. At least in the forseeable future. Actually, in the forseeable future, we don't even know if PTC will work. There are still some major bugs to work out.
Also think about it. PTC cannot build the grain train. It cannot build the coal train. It cannot switch customer A or B or C. It cannot set set-off bo's. It cannot inspect your train when it comes apart.
But, perhaps an intermodal hot shot on a main with passenger trains might see engineer only.
Do a search in the forum about FTO and you'll see my paranoia. FTO + PTC = no conductor or engineer.
As you can see, there is still a lot of work that technology cannot replace. Yet!!
BNSF_Conductor11 I most definitely will keep paying my dues to the UTU, a union that fights for its members unlike the BLET who votes out their own jobs and crosses their own picket lines.
yea right . you keep listening to the utu amd listen to them when your sitting on the side watching trains go by ..... oh with out a paycheck. then maybe you might believe the truth some day. Oh yea did your president get out of prison yet or is he still there afraid to pick up the soap LOL
Oh and one last thing just when did i cross a picket line?? when did any BLET guys cross a picket.
How long were you a conductor at BNSF?? No BLET guy sold out THEIR JOBS! That was UTU on remotes in the yard. Hostlers were fireman, and firemen were sold out by UTU!Here is another tidbit. The companies back in the 80's told the UTU we will eliminate 1 brakeman and pay you X for it. UTUT said eliminate them both and pay us more for reduced crew. Who sold whom out? Who also has it that we couldnt strike? UTU. I would like to know what picket line was crossed and when.
I was like you when I started. Just tossed in the UTU and paying over 100 bucks for dues.I got out of that when they quit taking the younger conductors claims seriously.Went over to the BLET as a Conductor.Gotta love your attitude as well. You want this to be in your favor? tell your leaders to stop fighting the BLE and selling you out.
Here is something for you. UTUT ratified a contract for our parent road. locked in for 6 years. Pay cuts and no raises. Needless to say they are angry that the "small road" got more money, raises,and more perks. Isnt that just wonderful?Oh and we are not locked in for 6 years.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
route_rock How long were you a conductor at BNSF?? No BLET guy sold out THEIR JOBS! That was UTU on remotes in the yard. Hostlers were fireman, and firemen were sold out by UTU!Here is another tidbit. The companies back in the 80's told the UTU we will eliminate 1 brakeman and pay you X for it. UTUT said eliminate them both and pay us more for reduced crew. Who sold whom out? Who also has it that we couldnt strike? UTU. I would like to know what picket line was crossed and when. I was like you when I started. Just tossed in the UTU and paying over 100 bucks for dues.I got out of that when they quit taking the younger conductors claims seriously.Went over to the BLET as a Conductor.Gotta love your attitude as well. You want this to be in your favor? tell your leaders to stop fighting the BLE and selling you out. Here is something for you. UTUT ratified a contract for our parent road. locked in for 6 years. Pay cuts and no raises. Needless to say they are angry that the "small road" got more money, raises,and more perks. Isnt that just wonderful?Oh and we are not locked in for 6 years.
We probley scared him away with the truth, but 1 More truth Every conductor had to start at 80% and every year got a 5% pay increase, but if you got fired did you get fired only 80% NO did you pay only 80% union dues NO you paid 100% .......... and on the NS it is well know that you can be a conductor for 29 years or 10 years and if you dont pass your engineer promotion you no longer have a job on the railroad. piick up you last check and have a good life. ( for those not familar with this the people hired after 1985 are the ones we are talking about) all thanks to the UTU. it took me 6 months of UTU dues I then went to the BLET and never regreted it.
Well since everyone wants facts here they come:"On July 3, 2002 while UTU and Transportation Communications Union members employed by Union Pacific honored a Teamsters picket line and sacrificed a day's wages in solidarity with their Teamsters Union brothers and sisters, BLE members crossed the Teamsters picket line and went to work." and that was brought to you by utu news page. Here is some more info for ya "The BLE has a history of crossing picket lines. Among picket lines crossed by the BLE were a UTU picket line on the Soo Line Railroad plus that of a predecessor UTU organization, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen". That also was brought to us by UTU news, the facts, and sorry to inform you but who was the first union to implement RCO? That would be the BLE up in Canada. Also how does it feel to know that, at least on BNSF in some areas, your own members just signed an agreement that eliminates almost every engineer on yard jobs and replaces them with a utility engineer which covers every job on that shift, thats already happening in Texas. the loss of fireman and brakeman on trains was inevitable thanks to diesel locomotives just like the caboose was replaced with an etd. AT least the utu was smart enough to get some money out of losing a crew member on a train. So go ahead an believe in the BLET lies and we will see whos standing on the side of the tracks with no paycheck.
P.S.- We have seen what happens when there is only an engineer on the head end of a train.
BNSF_Conductor11P.S.- We have seen what happens when there is only an engineer on the head end of a train.
Plenty of instances where having a Conductor also didn't lead to a better outcome.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I'm certainly no expert in PTC but to me it would seem to make more sense to forget about PTC and focus more on ensuring that the people who are running the trains are well qualified and doing their jobs.
As an added safety measure, is there no way that trains can be monitored from a dispatch desk?...and when two trains appear to be on a collision course would it not be a simple thing to have the dispatcher be able to shut one or both trains down from his/her desk? That to me would be alot simpler than PTC.
UlrichI'm certainly no expert in PTC but to me it would seem to make more sense to forget about PTC and focus more on ensuring that the people who are running the trains are well qualified and doing their jobs. As an added safety measure, is there no way that trains can be monitored from a dispatch desk?...and when two trains appear to be on a collision course would it not be a simple thing to have the dispatcher be able to shut one or both trains down from his/her desk? That to me would be alot simpler than PTC.
The Dispatcher is way too busy, cannot tell exactly where the train is with enough precision, has no way to stop the trains safely. Most of the technology that would be needed is exactly the same technology as that which will be used by PTC.
Ohhhh nice dig, and he got killed. hey pal there was a CONDUCTOR on the train as well.Couldnt see the signal sure but last I knew the engineer CALLS them out in passenger service to his con.
Ble in Canada yes they did, but who sold out the engineers in the yards in the US. You fail to mention that. UTU sold out VIAs conductors,didnt mention that. I got away from BNSF.So I dont care who screws who over anymore.
If you ever go to Overland Park remember! You have TWO chances only at the test.You fail any part twice and your no longer a conductor.You can be craft transfered, maybe.so have fun hitting the bricks with that service letter.
Oh, my . . . . Aren't you guys supposed to be brothers ? As in Brotherhood ?
Somebody got a mop to clean up the blood here ?
- PDN.
Paul_D_North_Jr Oh, my . . . . Aren't you guys supposed to be brothers ? As in Brotherhood ? Somebody got a mop to clean up the blood here ? - PDN.
That's funny.. in my industry a common hiring slogan is "we treat you like family"...which begs the question..whose family? I would just as soon be treated better than family. But as to the above, one person crews would lead to less interpersonal conflict...(no one to fight with)..
LOL no we would be just like truckers (did that too) and argue on the radio. I think what set me off was the way he said it and having it refer to the caltrain wreck. Yeah the guy made a mistake,but dont talk ill of the dead. Just a pet peeve of mine.
I loved working certain jobs where the guys would be at each other throats. Then try to get YOU involved.All over either union stuff,political stuff, or whatever.THing is I never heard of BLE guys crossing a picket line and saying LOOK utu news!!! Well red flag that for me please.
Sorry for getting mad but come on. I could throw a case back at him that happened here. I know the reason it happened but I am not going to talk ill of the person as I knew that person.But it was a tradgedy.We are supposed to be brothers. But union leaders gnash at the bit yelling how bad such and such person is. Ihad an engineer in my conductor days actually call up his steward ( he was a UTU-E) and make sure I was paying full road dues.Thing Is I was a BLET gy and when he found out he was and I quote" Going to get some iron and when he did I would have to carry the knuckle back" Well let me tell you peole that ticked me off. He was 5'6 and 185 I am 6'4 285 and told him if he attempted to catch a knuckle all over my union choice I would flatten him and he would finish his day on a stretcher in the closest ER. Needless to say it was a quiet trip home.Up to that point we were talking bikes and babes and having a good time.
I wasn"t trying to start a fight by any means when i submitted that first post i was just simply wondering about everyone's thoughts on PTC and i stated a fact. sorry to get so into it. But this is the sad truth the two unions are fighting and by doing so the company wins and that's never good for us.
BNSF_Conductor11 I wasn"t trying to start a fight by any means when i submitted that first post i was just simply wondering about everyone's thoughts on PTC and i stated a fact. sorry to get so into it. But this is the sad truth the two unions are fighting and by doing so the company wins and that's never good for us.
It never fails that the UTU guys always bring up the same ole thing, the same lies that they got their member to believe to fight with the ble, So let me set you straight the lies that your reading off the UTU web site is just that why would they print the truth on another union who beat them to the win... They wont. OH and if your so up on the contracts and who is screwing who on the remotes the BLE we voted out the remote engines the UTU went right up and grabed them thinking they was going to win the fight. and use it against us in the future to get rid of engineers. wrong again. Look at the new agreement for the NS. The fact is it passed that there will always be a engineer on all road jobs and all locals and they are getting it to include yard jobs, locked in already. and if the UTU thoguht they would win with the remotes remeber that senority wins out so you wont have a job anyways if it goes to one man crews and you hit the bricks again and ill still belong to the BLE.
First off i was ready to put this to rest but since your so persistent here we go again. The UTU and BLE were in joint talks about RCO, the UTU was willing to give the BLE half of the jobs but the BLE said RCO was unsafe, which it is, but now they turn around and agree to take over it what happened between the two contracts that magically changed the BLE's mind on RCO? The companies were going to bring in RCO whether the unions agreed to it or not, the UTU agreed to take the jobs because if they didn't the company was just going to scab them out anyway and the UTU still offered half of the work to the BLE. Also i have been talking about BNSF the whole time i have no idea about other agreements on other railroads. I know only my national and local agreements not NS or UP or KCS or anyone else's.
BNSF_Conductor11 First off i was ready to put this to rest but since your so persistent here we go again. The UTU and BLE were in joint talks about RCO, the UTU was willing to give the BLE half of the jobs but the BLE said RCO was unsafe, which it is, but now they turn around and agree to take over it what happened between the two contracts that magically changed the BLE's mind on RCO? The companies were going to bring in RCO whether the unions agreed to it or not, the UTU agreed to take the jobs because if they didn't the company was just going to scab them out anyway and the UTU still offered half of the work to the BLE. Also i have been talking about BNSF the whole time i have no idea about other agreements on other railroads. I know only my national and local agreements not NS or UP or KCS or anyone else's.
I am so glad you said that . Now you say they going to scab out the work. to who??? the working agreements are for the unions and protect the jobs that is why you have a job. they cant get someone off the street to come in and run a remote . But that is what your UTU will tell you what they will do. It is simple nobody touch the remotes and they would have died for a while, in the industry they would have went on but not in your working limits. So instead the UTU makes scabs out of all of you conductors who decide to run a remote. so again the scabs are paying into the UTU fund and still losing the fight . And before you blanket everyone you better check out all areas because what happens in your area dont happen here.
GPS and a remote control OFF switch wouldn't work?
beaulieu Ulrich I'm certainly no expert in PTC but to me it would seem to make more sense to forget about PTC and focus more on ensuring that the people who are running the trains are well qualified and doing their jobs. As an added safety measure, is there no way that trains can be monitored from a dispatch desk?...and when two trains appear to be on a collision course would it not be a simple thing to have the dispatcher be able to shut one or both trains down from his/her desk? That to me would be alot simpler than PTC. The Dispatcher is way too busy, cannot tell exactly where the train is with enough precision, has no way to stop the trains safely. Most of the technology that would be needed is exactly the same technology as that which will be used by PTC.
Ulrich I'm certainly no expert in PTC but to me it would seem to make more sense to forget about PTC and focus more on ensuring that the people who are running the trains are well qualified and doing their jobs. As an added safety measure, is there no way that trains can be monitored from a dispatch desk?...and when two trains appear to be on a collision course would it not be a simple thing to have the dispatcher be able to shut one or both trains down from his/her desk? That to me would be alot simpler than PTC.
If there was ever a poster child for reason to lock a thread, this is it. I don't think any of us logs on to this forum to see posters fighting like the Hatfields and the McCoys, about something so far off topic as this. This thread is too far gone to get back on track. If someone wishes to start a new thread on the topic, I'd ask that we leave the issues from this thread out of it. Thnak you.-Norris user/moderator
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
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