Just after noon today, five teenagers were killed after they drove around a lowered crossing gate and were hit by an Amtrak train in Canton Township, a suburb of Detroit. Amtrak train 353 was headed from Detroit to Chicago and dragged the car 150 feet down the track. This is why I've told my 16-year-old that he will not drive in a car full of other teenagers. I don't know any details so I can't presume, but it sure seems possible they were busy texting and had the radio blaring and weren't paying any attention. Very tragic for all involved...
Ross R.
Police: 5 die when train hits vehicle in Michigan
The Detroit Free Press headline suggests the teens were trying to beat the train.
Other news sources in the area simply state that they were hit by the train. Extricating them from the wreckage of the car is apparently a challenge.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Whether they were texting and/or had the radio blairing is really inmaterial. It's the fact the driver drove around a lowered crossing gate that's very disturbing.
Once again, folks, an incident that proves the point....STUPID DOES AS STUPID IS.
Images from the scene showed that the locomotive hit the car pretty much dead center, collapsing the car width-wise. The car stayed on the coupler.
We may never know why they did what they did.
Current reports from the local media indicate the Amtrak train was traveling 60 to 70 mph; within its limits for the area. The car appears to be a Ford Focus. Can't imagine what the families and crew are going through right now...
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Many states restrict the number of teens that can drive with other teen age drivers in one car, family members not included. Didn't the driver learn about the danger of driving around lowered crossing gates?
RudyRockvilleMD Many states restrict the number of teens that can drive with other teen age drivers in one car, family members not included. Didn't the driver learn about the danger of driving around lowered crossing gates?
Wisconsin has a law where there are only 1 or 2 under 18 people can be in the car. Under 18 drivers can only drive at certain times of the night (unless they are coming from somewhere like work, school function, something legit i guess)
As for the driver that went around the gate, I guess he learned once. Sad and a very avoidable tragedy.
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Be assured.
Some lawyer will convince a jury that the gates weren't down. The testimony of the engine crew will be thown out because it will be assumed they are lying. It's Anoka all over again.
And the insurance company will take notice and increase its premiums. It has no other realistic choice.
Very sad. A quote from a mother.
The victims were a 14-year-old girl and four young men: an 18-year-old and a 20-year-old from Taylor, a 19-year-old from Woodhaven, and a 21-year-old from Stafford, Va., according to police.Police were withholding names, but Tammy Sadler said her 14-year-old daughter, Jessica Sadler, was among those killed. Tammy Sadler was at her parents' Canton Township home - less than a mile from the accident site - Thursday night, where her family has been staying while moving from Taylor to Wyandotte.Sadler, 45, told the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News that she had told her daughter to hurry home instead of going to the beach with her boyfriend."I told her she was going to be in trouble," Sadler said, sobbing. "She asked me if she could go to the beach and I told her no, she had to come home ... I feel I'm to blame."
Well it's sad. The Bartzokis Study is confirmed again -- that is the study that got so much attention a few years back, showing that the brain only starts to create significant myelin -- the white matter that makes the various gray matter brain parts really work together (layman's version here) leading to the ability to forsee consequences and have good judgment -- during the teen years. The brain is still not doing a good job of forming myelin during the teen years -- that really awaits the later 20s and 30s and finally is done around age 50. So just about the time you have the ability to exercise good judgment, you have fewer and fewer opportunities to need it!
This is why, bluntly stated, so many things that teens do, and college kids do on spring break, seem (actually, are) so stupid. And this is why there is so much money to be made from "Jacka**" tv shows and Girls Gone Wild DVDs and, yes, being a divorce lawyer ....
How we explain middle aged married Congressman and younger women was not explained by Dr Bartzokis, unfortunately.
A decent summary of the study is here: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20060208-9999-lz1c08myelin.html
Dave Nelson
greyhounds Be assured. Some lawyer will convince a jury that the gates weren't down. The testimony of the engine crew will be thown out because it will be assumed they are lying. It's Anoka all over again. And the insurance company will take notice and increase its premiums. It has no other realistic choice.
This case will likely be federally preempted. I doubt that filing a lawsuit will be possible, much less viable. Preemption has really gutted what used to be a cottage industry for plaintiff's lawyers on railroad crossing incidents. Besides, all the plaintiff lawyers who specialize in railroad accidents are probably focusing on the glut that will be following the Rochester CN/IC tragedy.
On a different note, I am pleased to see the respectful way forum members are treating this. I was wincing reading this post, thinking someone would say something crude about the deceased. Although I cannot understand why someone would do something so stupid like that, they certainly more than paid for their misstake. Also, as far as we know, the other teens in the car didn't agree to the driver's poor decision making. I shutter to think the number of times I was in a group as a teen when someone was doing something I knew was stupid, wrong, and likely to result in trouble but I didn't have the courage to overcome the peer presure to speak up and put a stop to it.
Other people say they will not let their children drive in a car with multiple teens. My biggest fear is letting my child ride in a car with another teen at the wheel. It will be hard enough to try to get my children to use their good judgment while driving. The thought of trusting them with another teen's judgment is going to be very hard for me to accept. I think back at some of the decision making I and my friends had at that age, and I know that teens just don't think the way adults do.
My sympathy goes out to all involved.
Gabe
dknelson The Bartzokis Study is confirmed again -- that is the study that got so much attention a few years back, showing that the brain only starts to create significant myelin -- the white matter that makes the various gray matter brain parts really work together (layman's version here) leading to the ability to forsee consequences and have good judgment -- during the teen years. The brain is still not doing a good job of forming myelin during the teen years -- that really awaits the later 20s and 30s and finally is done around age 50. So just about the time you have the ability to exercise good judgment, you have fewer and fewer opportunities to need it! This is why, bluntly stated, so many things that teens do, and college kids do on spring break, seem (actually, are) so stupid.
The Bartzokis Study is confirmed again -- that is the study that got so much attention a few years back, showing that the brain only starts to create significant myelin -- the white matter that makes the various gray matter brain parts really work together (layman's version here) leading to the ability to forsee consequences and have good judgment -- during the teen years. The brain is still not doing a good job of forming myelin during the teen years -- that really awaits the later 20s and 30s and finally is done around age 50. So just about the time you have the ability to exercise good judgment, you have fewer and fewer opportunities to need it!
This is why, bluntly stated, so many things that teens do, and college kids do on spring break, seem (actually, are) so stupid.
Note that on the part of the driver - the only one that really matters here - this appears way beyond inattention or distraction, or even stupidity or under-development.
According to the reports, the driver didn't just 'blow past' or ignore the crossing signals - instead, the driver actually took a deliberate, intentional, knowing, and reckless action to steer around and evade the warning device. In effect, the driver acknowledged that the gates were there, and pretty much what they were there for - and still took steps to defeat their purpose. That's not stupidity, since the driver was smart enough to do and accomplish that. At best, it's a gross error in judgment. More likely, it was gambling with the train's speed - as evidently mis-perceived by the driver - to save a few seconds or some aggravation, with several lives at stake, or 'dicing with the devil'. But this time, the devil won.
- Paul North.
Such tragedies will not be completely eradicated in our lifetime.
My thought would be to install "gates" that make it not an option to "drive around" them with the thought at being able to "beat the train".....But I'm sure that is not going to happen.
And some people will often "take chances" and some will simply make the mistake of "driving around" , not to "beat the train", but just in making a mistake in what they are doing.....
Quentin
There was a suv stopped at the crossing for 17 seconds before the teens went around it and the gates. While I am very sorry for the families loss I am more sad for the engineer. Having been involved in 7 grade crossing accidents in my 11 years behind the throttle they are never easy. Only 1 was fatal and I can still see the look on the passengers face just before we hit him.
pmsteammanOnly 1 was fatal and I can still see the look on the passengers face just before we hit him.
Just saw on the news that they have a video of the accident. Hard to see impact, but you can see the train and the car goin down the tracks. Seemed like the car driver didn't even stop or slow down too much. You see the car, then seconds later it's goin down the track. That would be gruesome to watch. Those kids probably had no time to realize what was going to happen. Shame that lives are snuffed out like that. My heart goes out to all involved.
News reports today say the car went around an SUV stopped at the downed gates as well as the gates before being struck by the train which was within its speed limit at that point. The report also noted that the driver had just had his license suspended after quite a few violations indicating he had been a risk taker and speeder.
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In an earlier post, zardoz believed stupidity had to be involved; I agree. But I think that "bravado" is part of this. Observing men and women throught the years, I believe men are more prone to acts of bravado. "Look how brave I am! I care not about risks!"
How many women mountain climbers can you name? How about race car drivers? I can think of a couple of women drivers, but bravado seems to be a male thing. And on impulse, not taking the time to think through about the various risks involved nor the risks to others.
I wonder if the driver of the car was a young male.
Art
Bringing gender into this...my car insurance agent (back when I was HS age) commented to my parents that in his experience younger males generally drove inattentively less often but aggressively more often. Each 'fault' having a specific set of risks associated with it but neither was any less dangerous.
Dan
A tragedy indeed, made all that much worse by the gross negligence if not outright reckless conduct of the young driver. If there is legal action brought it should be by the families of the passengers against the estate of the driver and perhaps any others responsible for entrusting him with the car under a theory of negligent entrustment given his suspended license and poor driving history. Both Amtrak and the NS appear to have no liability as media are quoting police investigating as saying the train was within the spped limit, that the horn was sounded for the crossing and that the warning devices worked correctly as backed up by both live witnesses in the SUV and elsewhere and the video footage. I'd be interested to know why the surveillance camera was placed at the crossing in the first place. Also, interesting to note that the video is identified as "Cam 3" I'd be interested to see the film from the other cameras on site, if any.
LC
Z -
It is difficult to forget any of the ones I have been through (vehicle collisions and suicide by train in a couple) and luckily for me they were before my days behind the throttle, when I was in the left hand seat(s). Still, I remember an old head conductor telling me that there is nothing like "the sound of someone's skull bouncing off your snowplow". That has stuck with me all these years and it is true. All of the sights and sounds of those incidents can and will come back. The stuff of railroader's nightmares, mine included...
zardoz pmsteammanOnly 1 was fatal and I can still see the look on the passengers face just before we hit him. Yeah, that sort of thing stays with you for a while. My first one was back in '74, and I can still remember....
LC, I understand your point about suing. However, no real justice would be done. I am sure the rest of the driver's family had no control over him at that moment. And how much more can four families take from one family? Money isn't everything and it sure as hell shouldn't be the punishment, especially if there isn't much money in the pot to begin with.
Limitedclear I'd be interested to know why the surveillance camera was placed at the crossing in the first place. Also, interesting to note that the video is identified as "Cam 3" I'd be interested to see the film from the other cameras on site, if any.
I'd be interested to know why the surveillance camera was placed at the crossing in the first place. Also, interesting to note that the video is identified as "Cam 3" I'd be interested to see the film from the other cameras on site, if any.
According to one of the articles on the Free Press web site, that footage came from a security camera located on a nearby business building. It was not intented to monitor the rail crossing, but nevertheless did document this unfortunate event.
Mike
greyhounds Be assured. Some lawyer will convince a jury that the gates weren't down. The testimony of the engine crew will be thown out because it will be assumed they are lying. It's Anoka all over again.
This is such a weak and tired argument! You can blame attorneys all you want. Juries are the triers of fact. Attorneys just present the facts of the case TO the jury. It is up to the jury to decide whether what they present is believeable or not. If you have a problem with the outcome of a case, blame the jury!!! Attorneys do NOT decide the case! A bad attorney, however, can make or break a case (read the prosecutors in the OJ Simpson case). So blame sympathetic juries AND bad lawyers. If a jury or juror is bored or non-sympathetic, blame society, not the legal system. If the result is "stupid", it means the jury is "stupid". Just remember, YOU are not in the box, hearing the entire case.
As an attorney myself, I can tell you that you try your best argument and see if it "sticks". If the jury buys it, great for your client. Attorneys only get away with what the juries allow them to get away with (that and the procedural rules of the judge).
As for inadmissible evidence, it is what it is. There are certain rules to follow. If you cant find an exception to get it in, you need to find another line of work.
My condolences go to the familes and to the crew. It's a sad thing that the engineer, et al, have to suffer the rest of their life just because of someone else's stupid, youthful indiscretion.
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