Truckers block Freeways to protest high diesel costs!

[DSchmitt]

Haven't the railroads fuel cost increased too[?] They get their fuel from the same barrel of oil.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

kev
sorry my friend you cant vote in our election.Ethenonal and bio diesel is something that our govt really needs to be pushing.and california was wanting to ban ethenol because it came from the midwest.so what did midwest states do get fruit from florida and mexico?Im not a farmer but am familiar with what our local farmers deal with everyday.cant we all just get along?
stay safe
Joe

Apparently they are upset about getting that mid-western moonshine when they can get it here too. Not too sure of the details but it has more to do with political favors owed to mid-west backers of certain people in DC who OK'ed the switch to Ethonal from MTBH, which turned out to be very bad for the water supply. Go figure, something invented by the oil industry bad? The switch wasnt the issue, it was deciding just who would supply the stuff, Cal growers said they could do it for cheaper, but a midwest supplier got it, why? I dunno!

So yeah they want to ban Ethonal which is stupid because there aint no other additives to help the emmisions standards, all political BS yet again.

When it comes to California, I agree with Big Boy, vote them all out and start over.

[mudchicken]

Irony Department:

(1) The truckers in LA and Oakland were drayage truckers hauling mostly sea-cans (containers) and piggy-back trailers for the freight forwarders scambling for biz the railroads haul to the ships. The rates they complain about were in contracts they signed and honored. The rest of John Q. Public was treated to a contractual dispute between the truckers and the forwarding outfits. NEITHER seems to understand how to write or negotiate a contract.

(2) Those same truckers ought to have a mandatory safety inspection prior to leaving the terminal by CHP. Far too many would fail to make minimum standard (Dblstack- you out there?.... the only truckers that are scarier are joe-bob bullhaulers) , and would not be allowed out on the road.

(3) In the news in Frisco & LA at the same time was the story about the deteriorating conditions of CA's freeways and that fuel taxes need to be raised to pay for road surfacing and bridge repairs. Mysteriously, 3 of the top 5 bad road segments are near the ports. Any guesses on who is doing the major damage, is not paying their fair share of the repair costs and insists on being subsidized by John Q.? (Hint: 18 wheels, unsafe at any speed and has a huge lobby at the statehouse & DC)

Really odd that the truckers already got their fuel taxes decreased while the railroads are paying fuel taxes at the same rate as 20 years ago and those moneys get poured into Caltrans general fund. The fund is heavilly skewed in favor of highway projects and management. (How about pouring some of that cash into grade crossing safety improvements...???)

From the same newscasts: Drivers of little riceburners destroying rims, tires and allignments venting at CalTrans....You're howling up the wrong trees bubba! Look in the mirror! All that work at night on roads to appease your howls of traffic gridlock is a wastefully expensive (daylight work is much cheaper & safer) exercise. Being that California loves to stick warning labels on everthing in every place, place the following on riceburners (and on driver's foreheads):

Warning: Owner fails to understand the laws of physics. Does not understand that no frame, no suspension on rediculously undersized tires and rims equates to greater chance of vehicle damage. Owner is also a witless enviro-nut and therefore has reserved the right to operate vehicle with bald tires, bad brakes, no simple scheduled maintenance and will drive this potential hazzard to failure or accident, whichever comes first. (ps...can't possibly be the owner/driver's fault and the exhaust fumes problem cannot possibly be his)

AQMD is a neccessary evil, but until it gets a staff with their heads-on straight, they are as much a nuisance as they are a public help. They are a little bit over-zealous when they dictate to others how to spend their limited funds.

Railroads, the big ones, buy in bulk and not so often on the spot market. They do not get hit quite so hard as the average trucker.

[soapbox][soapbox][soapbox]

ps: VSmith- ATSF did not give up the Pasadena sub until they made sure the San Berdoo sub side of the LA Basin loop could pick up the slack. The crossing plagued Pasadena sub is now MetroJoke, er-um MetroLink's problem now.(they get to try and close crossings through the various feudal fiefdom munincipalities along the line)... and ATSF still gets what little freight biz is still out there between Irwindale and "A" Yard/ Berdoo...

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
[Apparently they are upset about getting that mid-western moonshine when they can get it here too. Not too sure of the details but it has more to do with political favors owed to mid-west backers of certain people in DC who OK'ed the switch to Ethonal from MTBH, which turned out to be very bad for the water supply. Go figure, something invented by the oil industry bad? The switch wasnt the issue, it was deciding just who would supply the stuff, Cal growers said they could do it for cheaper, but a midwest supplier got it, why? I dunno!

So yeah they want to ban Ethonal which is stupid because there aint no other additives to help the emmisions standards, all political BS yet again.

When it comes to California, I agree with Big Boy, vote them all out and start over.

When the regulators were looking for something to put into gasoline the oil companies proposed MTBE which is a waste product normally burned off since there are very few uses for it. It was approved ("grandfathered in") without doing proper studies to determine the effects because it was already used in much smaller percentages.

The Air Polution Board and the oil companies and most of the Environmental activists thought MTBE in gasoline was a "win-win" situation. No one intended to poison groundwater.

Many decisions to "protect" the environment are made without proper studies to determine their real effect.

Using Oxygenates (including ethonal and MTBE) have unintended consequences. One is that while they reduce air pollution per gallon of fuel burned, they also reduce gas mileage. (more gallons burned offsets less pollution per gallon). This affect has do be understood and calculated to determine if they are worth the cost.

A few year ago California mandated cleaner diesel fuel. The "poison" diesel fuel chosen destroyed the fuel system on a large number of vehicles.

Ethonal is not completely benign in the environment either.

Lets try to know what we are doing when we make decisions.

Incidently the fight against MTBE was led by "right wing hate" Talk Show hosts, who realized eary that it was bad for the Environment. A number of "Right wing" politicians were soon on board against MTBE, it took a lot longer to convince their more Liberal brethen. Even after the mistake was admitted, it took years to get the stuff banned.

Conservatives do care about the Environment. We have to live here too. President Bush's Environmental proposals are not perfect, but many of them are attempts to put real science ito Environmentalism.

[Train Guy 3]

Truckers can look on the bright side, their trailers are still moving across the country.... just by rail. HAHAAHA The railraods have the power!

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Irony Department:


[soapbox][soapbox][soapbox]

ps: VSmith- ATSF did not give up the Pasadena sub until they made sure the San Berdoo sub side of the LA Basin loop could pick up the slack. The crossing plagued Pasadena sub is now MetroJoke, er-um MetroLink's problem now.(they get to try and close crossings through the various feudal fiefdom munincipalities along the line)... and ATSF still gets what little freight biz is still out there between Irwindale and "A" Yard/ Berdoo...

Double Irony Department

Mudchicken, you'd LOVE this...

The Pasadena Subdivision, now the lightrail Gold Line, now has South Pasadena NIMBY's upset over the lightrail trains running, you guessed it, in their backyard!

Seams it didnt take long for those living next to the old frieght line to forget that there used to be full-on frieght trains rolling thru there. Once the line was closed, but before the Gold Line got started, I guess they got used to the peace and quite.

Even BEFORE the first Gold Line trains were up and running, the complaints started. "Its too close...it will be too loud...I dont want to look at it... Wahh, wahhh. wahhhhhh"

Soon after the first trains began testing, a very small but very loud group of residents began a protest demanding that there be NO BELLS on the crossing gates! NO HORNS on the trains! and that the trains be slowed to a walking pace, though they later settled on 20mph max and only thru there little 2 block enclave.

I have been around these trains now for about a year, the MTA has done backflips to address as many legitimate issues to get this thing built and have done a great job but even they said "this is ridiculous" when it came to these nutjobs. The train horns are not as loud as auto horns, the trains are very, very quiet, and they are not going more than 30mph TOPS thru South Pasadena.

I wonder how many of these yahoo's moved in AFTER the SF stopped using the line, I remember watching some very loud and long trains rolling thru here and it was far far disruptive when it was a mainline frieght corridor.

I say its too bad we cant run a few excursion trains thru there for old times sake, you know 3751 chugging up the grade steam whiste blaring, I'd love every second of it, especially with knowing how much it would rattle these nervous little peoples cages!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Irony Department:


[soapbox][soapbox][soapbox]

ps: VSmith- ATSF did not give up the Pasadena sub until they made sure the San Berdoo sub side of the LA Basin loop could pick up the slack. The crossing plagued Pasadena sub is now MetroJoke, er-um MetroLink's problem now.(they get to try and close crossings through the various feudal fiefdom munincipalities along the line)... and ATSF still gets what little freight biz is still out there between Irwindale and "A" Yard/ Berdoo...

Double Irony Department

Mudchicken, you'd LOVE this...

The Pasadena Subdivision, now the lightrail Gold Line, now has South Pasadena NIMBY's upset over the lightrail trains running, you guessed it, in their backyard!

Seams it didnt take long for those living next to the old frieght line to forget that there used to be full-on frieght trains rolling thru there. Once the line was closed, but before the Gold Line got started, I guess they got used to the peace and quite.

Even BEFORE the first Gold Line trains were up and running, the complaints started. "Its too close...it will be too loud...I dont want to look at it... Wahh, wahhh. wahhhhhh"

Soon after the first trains began testing, a very small but very loud group of residents began a protest demanding that there be NO BELLS on the crossing gates! NO HORNS on the trains! and that the trains be slowed to a walking pace, though they later settled on 20mph max and only thru there little 2 block enclave.

I have been around these trains now for about a year, the MTA has done backflips to address as many legitimate issues to get this thing built and have done a great job but even they said "this is ridiculous" when it came to these nutjobs. The train horns are not as loud as auto horns, the trains are very, very quiet, and they are not going more than 30mph TOPS thru South Pasadena.

I wonder how many of these yahoo's moved in AFTER the SF stopped using the line, I remember watching some very loud and long trains rolling thru here and it was far far disruptive when it was a mainline frieght corridor.

I say its too bad we cant run a few excursion trains thru there for old times sake, you know 3751 chugging up the grade steam whiste blaring, I'd love every second of it, especially with knowing how much it would rattle these nervous little peoples cages!

Vic,

You're an artichoke.....push for more stringent building codes that require up 110 Db sound insulation in all new construction/remodel houses or owners have to provide and wear double hearing protection for all in the house. It will be amazing how quiet the trains will become........

[vsmith]

I beleive they DID alot of this as mitigation during construction to try to appease these bozo's but they still have there banners in the front yards. No trains allowed, but big ugly yellow eyesore banners are perfectly fine.

Like I said I've been at the epicenter of this protest and for the noise of the trains rolling by or the horns? Well my neighbors stereo is louder than that stupid train. How about a swap? I'll take the Gold Line running outside my house and those bozo's in South Pas can have my neighbor, his stereo, and volumn 10 oba-lomba-boom-boom music that the neighbors two streets over can here, Good Trade? I think so.

[dekemd]

Bush may not be doing all that much, but I don't think Kerry is going to do any better. As a senator he has received more funding from special interest groups than just about any other senator in congress. He's also big on highway funding. Think Big Dig in Mass. I'm afraid we're going to get the shaft if either Kerry or Bush wins.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Irony Department:


[soapbox][soapbox][soapbox]

ps: VSmith- ATSF did not give up the Pasadena sub until they made sure the San Berdoo sub side of the LA Basin loop could pick up the slack. The crossing plagued Pasadena sub is now MetroJoke, er-um MetroLink's problem now.(they get to try and close crossings through the various feudal fiefdom munincipalities along the line)... and ATSF still gets what little freight biz is still out there between Irwindale and "A" Yard/ Berdoo...

Double Irony Department

Mudchicken, you'd LOVE this...

The Pasadena Subdivision, now the lightrail Gold Line, now has South Pasadena NIMBY's upset over the lightrail trains running, you guessed it, in their backyard!

Seams it didnt take long for those living next to the old frieght line to forget that there used to be full-on frieght trains rolling thru there. Once the line was closed, but before the Gold Line got started, I guess they got used to the peace and quite.

Even BEFORE the first Gold Line trains were up and running, the complaints started. "Its too close...it will be too loud...I dont want to look at it... Wahh, wahhh. wahhhhhh"

Soon after the first trains began testing, a very small but very loud group of residents began a protest demanding that there be NO BELLS on the crossing gates! NO HORNS on the trains! and that the trains be slowed to a walking pace, though they later settled on 20mph max and only thru there little 2 block enclave.

I have been around these trains now for about a year, the MTA has done backflips to address as many legitimate issues to get this thing built and have done a great job but even they said "this is ridiculous" when it came to these nutjobs. The train horns are not as loud as auto horns, the trains are very, very quiet, and they are not going more than 30mph TOPS thru South Pasadena.

I wonder how many of these yahoo's moved in AFTER the SF stopped using the line, I remember watching some very loud and long trains rolling thru here and it was far far disruptive when it was a mainline frieght corridor.

I say its too bad we cant run a few excursion trains thru there for old times sake, you know 3751 chugging up the grade steam whiste blaring, I'd love every second of it, especially with knowing how much it would rattle these nervous little peoples cages!

Mudchicken is most certainly amused[:D][:D][:D]

Everything from the Arroyo Seco bridge on in to Mission Tower was always a circus....
- Stack trains derailing into the sides of apartment buildings
-arms sticking up from shallow graves in the borrow ditches
-naked homeless people in the LA River waving up at the passenger trains going by[:I]
-breakouts at the LA Co. old jail
-homeless transvestites coming towards you with syringes during on-foot track & tie inspections....[:0]
-spraying homeless dummies with the weed spray train (all of a sudden, a head pops up in the middle of weeds and palm fronds!...LA County Health over-reacts!!!)[:(!]
-earthquake aftermath bridge & track inspections, 3.9 or below-PLEASE![:(][:(][:(]
-palm trees falling over in the winds (no roots) along with a few billboards
-the annual rose parade circus
The idiotic S Pasadena "no whistle" bans
-movie sets shooting w/o permission in the middle of the main tracks
-trees in the L A River passing you at 40 mph in the hi-rail in a storm
-gang banger morons "offing" each other[:(]


I DO NOT miss it.......[xx(][xx(][xx(]

[vsmith]

Ah yes, the lovelyness that is Highland Park...well we'll see how much of the Crap-opolis remains in a few years, Home prices there are now avergaging $250,000+ now, so we should see a re-gentrification occur, for the much much better.

BTW if your an ex-Angelino, it might amuse you to know recently there was an article in a local paper about a side effect of the rocketing real estate and rental prices here. It focused on Echo Park, but it applies everywhere. The story was lamenting the loss of an art colony in Echo Park, they couldnt afford the rent anymore, the properties were getting too valuable. So there moving to Lincoln Heights on the other side of the LA river, in the same story was a side story about gangbangers in Venice be-itching that they couldnt afford rent anymore and were having to move away, awww, aint that sad!

It went on to say the same thing was occuring in Highland Park, Atwater Village, Echo Park, and Silverlake. Aww, aint that sad, the Homies are having to move to B.F. Egypt (San Berdue) after the landlords sold there rented cribs out from under them...awww!

[mudchicken]

not surprised at all

[Anonymous]

Nor I, MC. Got one @ USC and the hood's becoming downright upperclass. Next year out of the dorm & into 3BR apt 1 blk west of Vermont $2300/mo. They're going to cram in there like sardines.[tdn]

One question.....how did anyone notice the truckers were doing anything other than what they normally do, or the fwys were any different than any other day?????? 25 years ago, wouldn't have even merited a KNX report, much less a sigalert-just business as usual![%-)][%-)]

Methinks these wusses protest too much![swg]

[mudchicken]

They laid them across the freeway on a diagonal in a "vee formation" and then spouted gibberish at anything with a microphone. KNX, KFWB and KCBS were blabbing updates every ten minutes in either metroplex....

[daveklepper]

One of the problems with the Energy Bill was that it gave a lot of money (billions) for fuel cell Hydrogen economy, when the facts are Hydrogen is not a fuel source, it is an energy CARRIER, like a third rail, a trolley wire, a battery, or a flywheel. It will always take more energy to produce the Hydrogen than you get out of it. What is needed is to literally force automakers to produce only Hybrids. Trucks and buses, also . Diesel switchers, yes, but mainline locomotives are fuel efficient by themselves now, way above anything a truck or bus or automobile does. If any of you have test driven a Hybrid (and Ford is staring to make a fine SUV), you'll learn there are absolutely no disadvantage to this technology. But GM has always had a "not invented here" syndrom. Incidentally, when rating fuel efficiency of electric railways and electric urban transit the Feds add in a 5% for power line losses, but don't count the fuel necessary to deliver the fuel to filling stations and other fuel locations. Also, they grossly undercount the normal average number of passengers on a light rail car (average 22 on a car with capacity of 220, 96 seated and 124 standing?), and overstimate on buses (15 on a bus with a capaicty of 40 seated and 22 standing?). The 22 number for light rail cars was applicable only in the old days of 40-foot streetcars with capacities not much more than buses, but the modern cars are double the length and much greater in capacity. And they also often use the 22 figure for subway cars and cummuter cars! Dave Klepper

[brilondon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Been toying with something that I heard here in the true Midwest - someone got a hybrid car and the state wanted to or did - tax him more than a regular car. So what would they do with the Green Goat or hybrid engines? Feds that is......

That is some thing that we up in Canada fear is government intervention (taxes). I have been an advocate of giving tax breaks to people with hybrid cars. In Ontario right now we have idiots in government both provincially and federally who don't have any more foresight then a lemming. You mention tax insentives and the governmnets have a stroke at the thought. They tried a truck blockade in Toronto about four years ago and all they did is get lip service from the governments and alot jestures and language that was not complimentary from those of us drivers who needed to get any where with three hours. The blockades don't work. All we can do is pressure our deaf and dumb politcal leaders to give us some type of incentive to get us butts out of SUV's and into more fuel efficient vehicles and god forbid we actually decide to walk any where.

[wabash1]

Mud chicken

where should i start. Fisrt off the trucks you so want to have inspected by the chp would pass inspection, You like so many are mislead into what the goverment and news teams want you to believe and not looking at the real facts. when you read the stories about all the trucks they found and grounded for saftey inspections when you look at the big picture they are the safest vehicles out there. what the news informs you is in 20 trucks ( broken down to what sells stories) had violations which required repairs before they could be moved. ( oh my these dangerouse trucks) out of these trucks inspected 2 needed major repairs and were put out of service. Now what i did was that in 20 trucks ( no mention of total trucks inspected which they conviently left of also and in 8 hours can total 500 trucks.) is what they choose the violation can be as simple as a burned out headlight or marker light. or turn signal bulb. all of these are moving violations and require a truck to be shut down til repaired. Oh my these terrorizing trucks with a light out. no other violation than that. ( call out the national gaurd we need help against these killers) and yes a few of these criminals even had log book violations ( once i forgot to make a entry ) God help us they are everywhere. mad truckers running the highways asleep. What am i getting at. I have even seen state troopers with headlights out did they give themselves a ticket ( hint no) did they give themselves and their employer a slip of paper putting the car out of service ( no) and how many people did you see last night with headlights out. not to mention the ones who never use a turn signal. So when they give you stats they are picking out a few trucks ( say 2 trucks in 100) and saying they found violations ( what violations everything is a violation) and they are dangerous. here is a test for you and everyone to do. go out and drive tonight or just go out on the street and look at the rear of every car. pick up truck and tell me out of every 10 you see ( take paper and pencil this will get interesting) how many have the license plate light out? this is a moving violation and one in which a dot man will ticket a truck for and a violation a trooper will ticket you for.

road use tax. i have heard this so much that trucks dont pay their fair share. well lets see you buy all those permits ( fuel tax ) then you pay 3700-5000 dollars up front for road use tax per truck. then at the pump you are taxed 27cents per gallon of fuel for road use tax( differs from state to state ) then if you dont fuel in that state you still pay a road use tax for miles driven in that state ( when you file your quarterly taxes) and if you dont fuel enough then you still get taxed . but if you over pay you get a voucher that says you over paid thanks for your contribution. all this while tring to make a living and raise your kids after truck payments insurance taxes fines ( if your not lucky) you get to make a 1-1 1/2 % profit. after income tax. ( did we forget this tax) . with all that being said I dont agree with the blockade that drivers did but there is no news team going out getting the truckers opinion. fuel cost is a cost of doing buisness. and should be put into the cost of the rate of the haul. so that your loaf of bread is 5.00 ham for your sandwhich is 10.00 a pound. why so the voters can get to the fat cats who make the rules ( harder for some than others) that we all haft to live by.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

One of the problems with the Energy Bill was that it gave a lot of money (billions) for fuel cell Hydrogen economy, when the facts are Hydrogen is not a fuel source, it is an energy CARRIER, like a third rail, a trolley wire, a battery, or a flywheel. It will always take more energy to produce the Hydrogen than you get out of it. What is needed is to literally force automakers to produce only Hybrids. Trucks and buses, also . Diesel switchers, yes, but mainline locomotives are fuel efficient by themselves now, way above anything a truck or bus or automobile does. If any of you have test driven a Hybrid (and Ford is staring to make a fine SUV), you'll learn there are absolutely no disadvantage to this technology. But GM has always had a "not invented here" syndrom. Incidentally, when rating fuel efficiency of electric railways and electric urban transit the Feds add in a 5% for power line losses, but don't count the fuel necessary to deliver the fuel to filling stations and other fuel locations. Also, they grossly undercount the normal average number of passengers on a light rail car (average 22 on a car with capacity of 220, 96 seated and 124 standing?), and overstimate on buses (15 on a bus with a capaicty of 40 seated and 22 standing?). The 22 number for light rail cars was applicable only in the old days of 40-foot streetcars with capacities not much more than buses, but the modern cars are double the length and much greater in capacity. And they also often use the 22 figure for subway cars and cummuter cars! Dave Klepper

A viable hydrogen car is decades away, a viable means of cost effecively mass producing hydrogen may never happen, all the $ being spend on "research" is just so GM can say, "we are working on the grand idea" and avoid doing anything outside of the box. Remember the EV1? GM's wonder car? 2 billion big ones in research and it had a range as good as a luxery golf cart !

I say fine, let them , and the Japanese will once again blindside them by producing high milage hybrids and other green cars. Ford is showing amazing insight by working with Mazda, who builds the Escape, and using licensed hybrid technology from Honda, to build there Hybrid SUV. GM really doesnt get it!

[TH&B]

The thing about user fees is that none seems to realy know what it realy costs to run a truck on public roads. The truck operators only know what they can't afford but have realy no conection to the cost of crews building and maintaning the roadway. Who realy knows if our government does our hiway maintanace in an efficient cost effective way?

To me there seems no doubt that a small car does far less ware on the road then a transport trailer, but exactly by how much????

What costs more in highway maintance, an auto transporter carrying 10 autos or 10 seperate autos driving on their own?

In pricipal I'm all for user fees, but in reality I'm also scared of it. Would it benefit me? or would it kill the economy? can it even be implimented? in theory it should work well though.... on the long run.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Been toying with something that I heard here in the true Midwest - someone got a hybrid car and the state wanted to or did - tax him more than a regular car. So what would they do with the Green Goat or hybrid engines? Feds that is......

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this Mook. I think a state will tax anything. I would think that given the state of the current energy situation, they would be handing out credits.

Prehaps their logic is to make up for lost gasoline tax revenue, so that they can fund road repair. The car will still use public roads, but pay less tax. This is their way to get even.

As for the Green Goat it should make no difference, state or federal, the railroads own their track.[:)]

Found it! OK - it is lopsided reasoning - just like our university. They charge you roughly $275 per year to park close to campus. But will give you a free bus pass.

The people that don't have cars will have to buy a bus pass for $10 per mo or roughly $120 per year.

Scratching my head - but wouldn't a free bus pass (which is what we did have) encourage people to park at home and ride the bus?

Same with hybrid cars - why tax them at the regular rate and then extra because they are hybrid. What is the point of buying them, unless you are really in love with their looks!

This is like reduced/no salt. Take out an ingredient and charge more for the item. Duh.....

Now I will read on and see what else I missed!

Mookie

[tree68]

The numbers for how much highway wear a semi produces vs a car have been documented, although I don't recall what they are. The difference is substantial.

As for the concept of taxing a hybrid extra - without knowing the numbers, I don't know if it's fair or not. But, consider that we are discussing making the truckers pay for the wear they produce.

If we apply that same concept to hybrids, then their taxes to run down the road should be equivilent to that of a similar gas guzzler. They are producing the same amount of wear! What they save is some gas (before taxes) and the environment.

That's not to say that the extra tax is of an amount that meets that criteria (knowing governments, it's too much), but it is something to think about.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Again, I would have to agree that bus pass policy is a bit unfair, but I'll bet it works. It sends a strong message "KEEP YOUR [censored][censored] CARS AWAY FROM CAMPUS!!!" , and we'll pay you to do it. Those without cars lack this "leverage" and pose no problem, so the powers that be say "Who cares?"

Back to the hybrids, I'm guesing that the tax in question was placed on the purchase of the car. This is a silly place to put a tax!!! The proper place to tax this would be at annual tab renewal, but road repair may not be where those fees are directed. Every state is different. Gasoline taxes usually flow directly to roads, licensing fees may not. It is also possible that the tax was additional licensing fee, which went straight to the bottom line of the purchase.

California has long been a believer in "Robbing Peter to pay Paul" in their battle of road quality vs air quality and other things, sorry Vic. Nebraska is literally more up front about it, and is just trying to be fiscally responsible, even if it seems misguided.

[eolafan]

Well, the way I look at it, the trucks block traffic whether or not they do it intentionally or not. So, bottom line, let them cry all they want, and the shippers will SHIP BY RAIL!