Truckers block Freeways to protest high diesel costs!

[vsmith]

Well, here in LA over the weekend we had a little smattering of civil disobediance, when truck drivers blocked a freeway here and also staged slow 10mph caravans along other freeways here to protest the high costs of diesel fuel. At $2.40 a gallon for #2 diesel, It just dont pay to be a truck driver anymore. At least here in LA.

The Railroads have been increasing there volumn shipped lately, I wonder if theres a corellation between the higher diesel costs for truckers and the resulting increase in costs for shipping by truck -vs- the increase in volumn shipped by rail i.e. rail being more economical for shipping? Are we seeing a long term trend here as fuel prices, once they get high, rarely ever go down far.

Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Maybe this will finally light a fire under our president and congress to finally get their act together and make a long term energy plan. But somehow I doubt this will really do that.

Too many people throwing money to too many in office so we taxpayers will have to continue the status quo of being screwed at the gas pumps. Why can't people with common sense be put in office (like ED [:)] ). People with a fair amount of integrity who will put the needs of the people first and not the needs of their bank accounts ! ! !

This could become a hot topic considering the price now of gas/diesel and what it is predicted to become later this summer and next year.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Poor babies, let the trucks rot.[swg]

Long live the railroads!!!

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Maybe this will finally light a fire under our president and congress to finally get their act together and make a long term energy plan. But somehow I doubt this will really do that.

Too many people throwing money to too many in office so we taxpayers will have to continue the status quo of being screwed at the gas pumps. Why can't people with common sense be put in office (like ED [:)] ). People with a fair amount of integrity who will put the needs of the people first and not the needs of their bank accounts ! ! !

This could become a hot topic considering the price now of gas/diesel and what it is predicted to become later this summer and next year.

I doubt it, Big Money, Texas Oil men, Multinational Oil Exec's, all have the ear of the President, and are getting filthy rich, while the rest of us pay through the nose.

I dont except to see any changes, this admin sat by and let California get robbed blind by Enron et all, so why change now?

Got Hybrid?

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Maybe this will finally light a fire under our president and congress to finally get their act together and make a long term energy plan. But somehow I doubt this will really do that.

Too many people throwing money to too many in office so we taxpayers will have to continue the status quo of being screwed at the gas pumps. Why can't people with common sense be put in office (like ED [:)] ). People with a fair amount of integrity who will put the needs of the people first and not the needs of their bank accounts ! ! !

This could become a hot topic considering the price now of gas/diesel and what it is predicted to become later this summer and next year.

Bravo Jim!!! Perhaps the Bush administration is just what the voters needed to WAKE UP!!! I'm looking forward to November, I just hope we have slate to choose from that will improve things in Washington. I've said this before,

regardless of party vote the incumbents out!

[vsmith]

ABB is all I'm going to say, least I get Bergie on my case once more for lighting fires again...[;)]

Anybody
But
Bush

It's just getting too ridiculous out there, I havent heard one blip nationally about this protest, I wonder if it even made the national news? does DC even hear whats happening in the real world anymore?

[tree68]

Interestingly, there is currently a thread here that is discussing how the railroads have managed to reduce their capacity by removing double track, etc, and we've recently discussed how Unlimited Parking is short on crews....

Our politicians are so beholden to so many special interests that we can expect virtually nothing out of them. And without the money from the special interests it's virtually impossible to get elected. Somewhere, out there, is somebody who would be the perfect President - balanced, knowledgeable, the works. If we could just figure out which shoe store they work in, we could see what we could do to get elected (with apologies to the movie "Dave").

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

ABB is all I'm going to say, least I get Bergie on my case once more for lighting fires again...[;)]

Anybody
But
Bush

It's just getting too ridiculous out there, I havent heard one blip nationally about this protest, I wonder if it even made the national news? does DC even hear whats happening in the real world anymore?

Yeah Vic, I don't think that the elected officials care about what the people want anymore. They use all of that big business money and, don't think about the little guys. They don't have to listen to us, WE DON'T PAY THEIR BILLS. This is why the people need to stand up and make a statement in November that ALL OF THOSE IDIOTS WILL HEAR, AND VOTE THEM AND THEIR MONEY OUT.

As far as Bergie goes, I think as long as WE police this topic, he won't have to. SO, LET'S NOT LET IT GET UGLY GANG.[swg]

I'll go you one better than ABB!!!

ASQ

ANTI
STATUS
QUO[:D]

Maybe Ralph Nader should change the name of his party, or at least their campaign slogan.[;)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

Interestingly, there is currently a thread here that is discussing how the railroads have managed to reduce their capacity by removing double track, etc, and we've recently discussed how Unlimited Parking is short on crews....

Our politicians are so beholden to so many special interests that we can expect virtually nothing out of them. And without the money from the special interests it's virtually impossible to get elected. Somewhere, out there, is somebody who would be the perfect President - balanced, knowledgeable, the works. If we could just figure out which shoe store they work in, we could see what we could do to get elected (with apologies to the movie "Dave").

At least rails are easier to lay that new highway lanes. Most of the old double track ROWs are still there. The railroads can double track again, and yes, pay for there own lack of foresight.

I'm pretty sure BNSF is kicking itself for selling off the Pasadena/Foothill line to the MTA for our light rail Gold Line. That line used to run nothing but intermodels and Amtrack, now all that traffic is piled onto themainline that runs down thru Santa Fe Springs to Fullerton, along with the 11 round trip Amtrack coast liners and who knows how many Metrolink commuter trains each day, now add all the fright pouring out of Long Beach, the busiest port in the US and you can see there is a bit of a traffic flow problem. At least one train can carry over 200 containers, thats an economy of energy, speed and safety.

As for truck traffic? New freeways out here are budgeting out at around $1 Billion ( ! ) a mile... that plus the NIMBY's get screachy screaming loud crying to high heaven about any widening proposals or extensions so its safe to say no new freeeways will be built out this way. That plus a tremondous amount of frieght is still getting shipped from Long Beach by truck onto the already jammed freeways and onto the already jammed Interstates.

Ever tried going up 1-15 to Las Vegas lately? It used to be a 4-5 hour drive, now its averaging 6-7 hours because of too much congestion and is referred to as the "highway of death" by CHP for the number of accidents, most truck/car related. Now add the $2.20 to $2.40 a gallon diesel costs, and the longer drive times and more dangerous conditions and, like I said, It dont pay to be a truck driver down here no more.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Vic, wasn't there some talk about Amtrak adding an extra LA to Vegas train. Trains vs flying, trains don't do to well. But, trains vs driving especially at that range, compares much better. Time is similar though cost is still higher. I think we are getting closer here though, because of the relaxation and safety issues. One of these days!!!!!

[Mookie]

Been toying with something that I heard here in the true Midwest - someone got a hybrid car and the state wanted to or did - tax him more than a regular car. So what would they do with the Green Goat or hybrid engines? Feds that is......

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Been toying with something that I heard here in the true Midwest - someone got a hybrid car and the state wanted to or did - tax him more than a regular car. So what would they do with the Green Goat or hybrid engines? Feds that is......

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this Mook. I think a state will tax anything. I would think that given the state of the current energy situation, they would be handing out credits.

Prehaps their logic is to make up for lost gasoline tax revenue, so that they can fund road repair. The car will still use public roads, but pay less tax. This is their way to get even.

As for the Green Goat it should make no difference, state or federal, the railroads own their track.[:)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Vic, wasn't there some talk about Amtrak adding an extra LA to Vegas train. Trains vs flying, trains don't do to well. But, trains vs driving especially at that range, compares much better. Time is similar though cost is still higher. I think we are getting closer here though, because of the relaxation and safety issues. One of these days!!!!!

Amtrack still goes to Vegas? Last I heard they had cut that run, although that was a couple of years ago I heard that.

Dam. if they had a train i would take that ANY day over driving the route of hell that I15 has become...
Think about it, sure the flight is less than an hour but sheesh, you can spend at least 2 hrs just going thru security, add the commute, parking, unloading, getting on the shuttle bus, getiing into the terminal, you can spend 3 hours total time from when you leave home before you even get onto the plane. then 40 minutes in the air, picking up baggage, getting a taxi or rental car, and getting to your hotel, thats near 4 1/2 to 5 hours right there! Heck, Amtrack is 5 hours, but its time you can read, look out the window, talk, sleep and not worry about driving.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Been toying with something that I heard here in the true Midwest - someone got a hybrid car and the state wanted to or did - tax him more than a regular car. So what would they do with the Green Goat or hybrid engines? Feds that is......

You live in the wrong state then, here in LA they're is a big pu***o encourage Hybrid use, one of them is to allow Hybrids to use the commuter carpool lanes even if they're is only a single occupant.

[Anonymous]

ABB

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

ABB

But Kevin, you can't vote!!! Don't worry, I'll do it for you.[swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

ABB

But Kevin, you can't vote!!! Don't worry, I'll do it for you.[swg]

I was jsut about to come back and recrute someone to vote on my behalf-

Thanks!

Problem solved!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Vic, wasn't there some talk about Amtrak adding an extra LA to Vegas train. Trains vs flying, trains don't do to well. But, trains vs driving especially at that range, compares much better. Time is similar though cost is still higher. I think we are getting closer here though, because of the relaxation and safety issues. One of these days!!!!!

Amtrack still goes to Vegas? Last I heard they had cut that run, although that was a couple of years ago I heard that.

Dam. if they had a train i would take that ANY day over driving the route of hell that I15 has become...
Think about it, sure the flight is less than an hour but sheesh, you can spend at least 2 hrs just going thru security, add the commute, parking, unloading, getting on the shuttle bus, getiing into the terminal, you can spend 3 hours total time from when you leave home before you even get onto the plane. then 40 minutes in the air, picking up baggage, getting a taxi or rental car, and getting to your hotel, thats near 4 1/2 to 5 hours right there! Heck, Amtrack is 5 hours, but its time you can read, look out the window, talk, sleep and not worry about driving.

Sorry Vic, I'm living in the past. There used to be a split leg of the Zephyr from Salt Lake to LA going through Vegas. I rode it one time back in the mid 80's, Vegas to Denver.

I was totally shocked when I went to Amtrak's web site, and found BUS SERVICE!!!! What a CROCK!!!!! Maybe it's time to bring back a train.

Maybe all the western railroad mergers had something to do with it's demise. NAOMM, similar to NIMBY but for railroads. It stands for No Amtrak On MY Mainlines.[B)][:(!][V][:0][;)]

[vsmith]

Dont worry Kevin, if we get those new fancy e-lectronic voting machines here in California this November, I just might be casting an extra voting for you also, but thats only if you want to vote for Bush without knowing about it though....

Latest is that the computer voting machine will NOT be allowed in California as they cannot guarentee a failsafe system, so they might all be sent to Florida instead...

[Anonymous]

You all need to be educated on why fuel prices in Califonia are so much higher than the rest of the U.S. It isn't Texas oilmen getting rich, or Bush and his croneys raking it in, or any of that left wing political crap. It is that fact that:

1. California has more stringent standards for fuel blends than the rest of the U.S. All it would take is for the State Assembly to remove those rules so that refineries can produce and sell cheaper blends. Doing so would instantly knock 30 cents a gallon off California's average fuel price.

2. More importantly, federal environmental policy has had the effect of discouraging the construction of new refineries (the U.S. hasn't built a new refinery in decades, while older refineries are running up on their expected lifespan), has discouraged exploration of U.S. oil and gas reserves (e.g. ANWR, offshore California, et al), and has made the construction of new transporation corridors (e.g. those that would result in reduced overall fuel use) prohibitively expensive, whether it be for highway, rail, or waterways. On the latter note, if BNSF or UP wanted to expand trackage, it would take 5 or so years just to get through all the regulatory paperwork/litigation/frivilous environmental lawsuits/etc. Look at how much crap DM&E is going through just to tap into the PRB.

You are also correct in that a comprehensive energy bill needs to be passed, but look at which party has been blocking passage of that bill for three years now (hint: it ain't Bush's party). Why are Dascle, et al, doing this? They want to create higher energy prices to try and use it as a political ploy in the 2004 elections by blaming it all on Bush. Given the respones seen on this thread, it seems to be working!

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Vic, wasn't there some talk about Amtrak adding an extra LA to Vegas train. Trains vs flying, trains don't do to well. But, trains vs driving especially at that range, compares much better. Time is similar though cost is still higher. I think we are getting closer here though, because of the relaxation and safety issues. One of these days!!!!!

Amtrack still goes to Vegas? Last I heard they had cut that run, although that was a couple of years ago I heard that.

Dam. if they had a train i would take that ANY day over driving the route of hell that I15 has become...
Think about it, sure the flight is less than an hour but sheesh, you can spend at least 2 hrs just going thru security, add the commute, parking, unloading, getting on the shuttle bus, getiing into the terminal, you can spend 3 hours total time from when you leave home before you even get onto the plane. then 40 minutes in the air, picking up baggage, getting a taxi or rental car, and getting to your hotel, thats near 4 1/2 to 5 hours right there! Heck, Amtrack is 5 hours, but its time you can read, look out the window, talk, sleep and not worry about driving.

Sorry Vic, I'm living in the past. There used to be a split leg of the Zephyr from Salt Lake to LA going through Vegas. I rode it one time back in the mid 80's, Vegas to Denver.

I was totally shocked when I went to Amtrak's web site, and found BUS SERVICE!!!! What a CROCK!!!!! Maybe it's time to bring back a train.

Maybe all the western railroad mergers had something to do with it's demise. NAOMM, similar to NIMBY but for railroads. It stands for No Amtrak On MY Mainlines.[B)][:(!][V][:0][;)]

I was pretty sure it had been eliminated, too bad, even the Desert Wind to Salt Lake was eliminated. I dont go to Vegas because is such a major league hastle to get there anymore and its only getting worse.

They're has been taking about a "Bullet Train" to vegas for so many years now but thats all its ever been, just yak yak talk.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

ABB

But Kevin, you can't vote!!! Don't worry, I'll do it for you.[swg]

I was jsut about to come back and recrute someone to vote on my behalf-

Thanks!

Problem solved!

Actually, I think Minnesota will fall in the ABB camp. Kerry is here today, and "Hedge", as we lovingly call him at my house, was kissing @$$ here last week. The real problem is that there are 49 other states, and quite a few of them count a lot more than Minnesota. California is one of the biggest, but it sounds like Vic is with us.[swg]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Dont worry Kevin, if we get those new fancy e-lectronic voting machines here in California this November, I just might be casting an extra voting for you also, but thats only if you want to vote for Bush without knowing about it though....

Latest is that the computer voting machine will NOT be allowed in California as they cannot guarentee a failsafe system, so they might all be sent to Florida instead...

Chad isn't just a country in Africa anymore...........

When I lived in Italy, there would be perodic strikes and demonstrations ...trucks blocking the road and such......they would strike for the oddest reasons too.....
....there was this steel mill that had been dormant for ten years or so. Locked up..no jobs. The company that owned it sold it to a Chinese company that was going to take the equipment to China.....okay...there's a quality control nightmare for you.....anyway, the Italians had a big weekend long strike to protest the moving of the mill, that 1) wasn't operational and 2) they had been complaining that it needed to be torn down becasue it was an eyesore not too long before.......

.......another strike occured one summer that there had been poor snowfall and rain the winter before, so the farmers punched holes in the aquaducts to irrigate their fields, causing very low water pressure, allowing algae to grow in the lines..making the water non-potable.....like it was before......anyway....the protesters blocked off the US Navy base and areas were the NATO folks lived.......because they felt if they put pressure on the foreign community it would help the problem. A good deal of the trucks were ag trucks that shipped the goods form the farms that had popped the lines......go figure.....

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by leftlimp

You all need to be educated on why fuel prices in Califonia are so much higher than the rest of the U.S. It isn't Texas oilmen getting rich, or Bush and his croneys raking it in, or any of that left wing political crap. It is that fact that:

1. California has more stringent standards for fuel blends than the rest of the U.S. All it would take is for the State Assembly to remove those rules so that refineries can produce and sell cheaper blends. Doing so would instantly knock 30 cents a gallon off California's average fuel price.

2. More importantly, federal environmental policy has had the effect of discouraging the construction of new refineries (the U.S. hasn't built a new refinery in decades, while older refineries are running up on their expected lifespan), has discouraged exploration of U.S. oil and gas reserves (e.g. ANWR, offshore California, et al), and has made the construction of new transporation corridors (e.g. those that would result in reduced overall fuel use) prohibitively expensive, whether it be for highway, rail, or waterways. On the latter note, if BNSF or UP wanted to expand trackage, it would take 5 or so years just to get through all the regulatory paperwork/litigation/frivilous environmental lawsuits/etc. Look at how much crap DM&E is going through just to tap into the PRB.

You are also correct in that a comprehensive energy bill needs to be passed, but look at which party has been blocking passage of that bill for three years now (hint: it ain't Bush's party). Why are Dascle, et al, doing this? They want to create higher energy prices to try and use it as a political ploy in the 2004 elections by blaming it all on Bush. Given the respones seen on this thread, it seems to be working!

"1. California has more stringent standards for fuel blends than the rest of the U.S. All it would take is for the State Assembly to remove those rules so that refineries can produce and sell cheaper blends. Doing so would instantly knock 30 cents a gallon off California's average fuel price."

Yes, but those fuel standards are triggered by the AQMD clean air standard, removing them would lead to an immediate degradation of the air quality in the state, given the sheer number of cars in LA ,SF, Sacramento and San Diego areas, a cheaper quality of gas would be catastrophic for the quality of life, I have been to Mexico City, and have seen what a city the size of Los Angeles looks like without smog controls, its HORRIBLE, so there no solution there.

"2. More importantly, federal environmental policy has had the effect of discouraging the construction of new refineries (the U.S. hasn't built a new refinery in decades, while older refineries are running up on their expected lifespan), has discouraged exploration of U.S. oil and gas reserves (e.g. ANWR, offshore California, et al), and has made the construction of new transporation corridors (e.g. those that would result in reduced overall fuel use) prohibitively expensive, whether it be for highway, rail, or waterways. "

Building new refineries SHOULD be encouraged, I agree, but not just here, as the AQMD requirements become stricter in other parts of the country , more modern refineries will be needed for the whole country not just California and NY. As for exploration , thats trickier, Anwar could be developed, but the oil companies dont do a very good job demonstrating that they can do it while being sensitive to the environment, its "our way or the highway too many times". As for offshore Ca, have you ever seen our coastline? there are dozens of rigs visible from the shore from LA all the way up past Santa Barbara, so many they are actually considered a hazard to ship navagation. And they getting worked out , so they will be abandoned in a few years. So no new oil from there.

"On the latter note, if BNSF or UP wanted to expand trackage, it would take 5 or so years just to get through all the regulatory paperwork/litigation/frivilous environmental lawsuits/etc. Look at how much crap DM&E is going through just to tap into the PRB."

Like I said, they can pay for there own lack of foresight. 5 years is still alot sooner than any brand new freeway or widening project would take....the last freeway built here (the 110 Century fwy) took over 10 years to build.


"You are also correct in that a comprehensive energy bill needs to be passed, but look at which party has been blocking passage of that bill for three years now (hint: it ain't Bush's party). Why are Dascle, et al, doing this? They want to create higher energy prices to try and use it as a political ploy in the 2004 elections by blaming it all on Bush. Given the respones seen on this thread, it seems to be working!"

As a Democrat, even i dont see that as the reason why a bill can't get past. It has more to do with a bill that tries to roll back years and years of regulation for the benifit of a few major corporations at the costs of you and me and our quality of life more than anything else. Its such a radical change that it doesnt have any chance of passing and the White House is unwilling to compromise, even members of the Rep party are getting tired of this unwillingness. Our entire system is based on compromise, it stalls to a halt when one side refuses to work with the other, that unfortunatly is our current state of the state.

Of course we can agree to disagree on this issue, this isnt the best place to discuss energy policy, since niether of us are on those commitee's in Congress, and we'd just be tossing our own view points back and forth...plus I dont want to tick off Bergie again and get a good discussion deleted over a few political disagreements [;)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

ABB

But Kevin, you can't vote!!! Don't worry, I'll do it for you.[swg]

I was jsut about to come back and recrute someone to vote on my behalf-

Thanks!

Problem solved!

Actually, I think Minnesota will fall in the ABB camp. Kerry is here today, and "Hedge", as we lovingly call him at my house, was kissing @$$ here last week. The real problem is that there are 49 other states, and quite a few of them count a lot more than Minnesota. California is one of the biggest, but it sounds like Vic is with us.[swg]

Out here, its the "Shrub" you' know, a small Bush...

[TH&B]

So the truckers want to protest the cost of diesel this way, well who do they expect will pay the difference? Us helpless citizens will that's who.

Truckers that block traffic to protest should loose their right to use public highways.

Or maybe I think gas is too much so i'll find some sucker who has nothing to do with it and park my fat car in his/her way, in protest of gas prices coarse !

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

So the truckers want to protest the cost of diesel this way, well who do they expect will pay the difference? Us helpless citizens will that's who.

Truckers that block traffic to protest should loose their right to use public highways.

Or maybe I think gas is too much so i'll find some sucker who has nothing to do with it and park my fat car in his/her way, in protest of gas prices coarse !

Well, the ones that did stop were arrested and there trucks impounded since they abandoned them on the freeway and walked away. Some of the slow protest drivers were given citations for driving too slowly, but at least they didnt tie up the freeways for hours like the other drivers did.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

ABB

But Kevin, you can't vote!!! Don't worry, I'll do it for you.[swg]

I was jsut about to come back and recrute someone to vote on my behalf-

Thanks!

Problem solved!

Actually, I think Minnesota will fall in the ABB camp. Kerry is here today, and "Hedge", as we lovingly call him at my house, was kissing @$$ here last week. The real problem is that there are 49 other states, and quite a few of them count a lot more than Minnesota. California is one of the biggest, but it sounds like Vic is with us.[swg]

Out here, its the "Shrub" you' know, a small Bush...

Yeah, we started out with Shrub too, but carried it out to Hedge for pun value.[swg]

[Anonymous]

Yeah i heard about thsoe new machines!

I have a hard enough time putting a Big black X in the round box without screwing it up!

[JoeKoh]

kev
sorry my friend you cant vote in our election.Ethenonal and bio diesel is something that our govt really needs to be pushing.and california was wanting to ban ethenol because it came from the midwest.so what did midwest states do get fruit from florida and mexico?Im not a farmer but am familiar with what our local farmers deal with everyday.cant we all just get along?
stay safe
Joe