Trains.com

ROANOKE RAIL CAM

179837 views
1396 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, September 6, 2010 10:29 AM

Looking at the aeronautical chart for the Roanoke area along the line described in the discussion  reveals several tall broadcast towers on top of the mountains between fifteen and twenty miles distant. Those towers are tall enough to be required to have white flashing strobes during the day and red blinking lights at night. That's to make the towers visible to pilots.

I believe they aren't visible during the day because of the sky background. At night they would more likely be visible because of less ambient light. Of course with the camera reverting to B&W at night those lights would appear white. If they always appear in the same place that would be my best guess.  With normal visibility in the eastern sky rather poor compared to out west there may be some atmospheric distortion.

TV stations in particular like to build their towers on mountains when possible. It increases their viewing area while saving on construction costs.

Norm


  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Florence, SC
  • 1,614 posts
Posted by grampaw pettibone on Monday, September 6, 2010 11:32 AM

I am familiar with lighted towers and pretty much have ruled them out. Unless the FAA rules have changed, a tower above 200 above grade, it has to be painted red and white and have a flashing red light every 200(?) feet with a faster red flasher at the top. A plain tower with white strobes overrides the above requirements. There would have to be 20 or more towers to generate the amount of light we are seeing.I do agree tho, that the lights could be and apparently are very distant and actually are very faint. The night enhancement of the camera makes them stand out. I watched them dim out a considerable time before sunset this morning just as the sky began to light up. Let's wait and see what the Roanoke newspaper has to say. I will post their response here if they answer

Tom

COAST LINE FOREVER

It is better to dwell in the corner of a roof than to share a house with a contentious woman! (Solomon)

A contentious woman is like a constant dripping! (Solomon)

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Cordes Jct Ariz.
  • 1,305 posts
Posted by switch7frg on Monday, September 6, 2010 11:52 AM

 Norm48327;  that is likely. At South Mountain in Phx. Az. there is a tower farm of radio and TV . Also the Phx. Sky harbor air port  close to this mtn. With all the red lights flashing it is quite a sight at night . Here in the Jct.of I-17 & sr.69 is a tower with a white flasher  day and red  at night fall .

                                          Jim

Y6bs evergreen in my mind

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, September 6, 2010 1:31 PM

grampaw pettibone

I am familiar with lighted towers and pretty much have ruled them out. Unless the FAA rules have changed, a tower above 200 above grade, it has to be painted red and white and have a flashing red light every 200(?) feet with a faster red flasher at the top. A plain tower with white strobes overrides the above requirements. There would have to be 20 or more towers to generate the amount of light we are seeing.I do agree tho, that the lights could be and apparently are very distant and actually are very faint. The night enhancement of the camera makes them stand out. I watched them dim out a considerable time before sunset this morning just as the sky began to light up. Let's wait and see what the Roanoke newspaper has to say. I will post their response here if they answer

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/systemops/fs/alaskan/towers/obstruction/media/AC70_7460_1K.pdf

Then scroll down to chapter 3, then to paragraph 36 a&b, and you will find this.

OMISSION OR ALTERNATIVES TO MARKINGThere are two alternatives to marking. Either alternative requires FAA review and concurrence.a.High Intensity Flashing White Lighting Systems. The high intensity lighting systems are more effective than aviation orange and white paint and therefore can be recommended instead of marking. This is particularly true under certain ambient light conditions involving the position of the sun relative to the direction of flight. When high intensity lighting systems are operated during daytime and twilight, other methods of marking may be omitted. When operated 24 hours a day, other methods of marking and lighting may be omitted.b.Medium Intensity Flashing White Lighting Systems. When medium intensity lighting systems are operated during daytime and twilight on structures 500 feet (153m) AGL or less, other methods of marking may be omitted. When operated 24 hours a day on structures 500 feet (153m) AGL or less, other methods of marking and lighting may be omitted.

Well, my link doesn't work. I hope you have the patience to type it in.

Norm


  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, September 6, 2010 1:32 PM

Way too many lights to be even a few radio/tv towers.

I have also gone back to Google Earth to look again for airports and there are none at all anywhere near a line extending from the walkway, over the elevator shaft and beyond at the approximate 245-degree angle.  I could not find a listing for the "Blue Ridge Regional Airport",  (only some libraries and other non-airport type associations).  Even "Regional Airport" only turned up a couple of airports and they were all north or northwest of Roanoke, not between southwest and west (the general direcion the camera is facing).

Highway 220 extends south from Roanoke for the most part.  The only section close to the direction the camera is facing is perpendicular to the line of sight and is much too close to the camera and well below the lights in elevation to be source of the sparklies.

 

At least nearly everytime I go looking for the lights I get to see a train on the tracks in the foreground (the whole purpose of the cam in the first place! Cool  )

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Florence, SC
  • 1,614 posts
Posted by grampaw pettibone on Monday, September 6, 2010 7:33 PM

The sparklies showed up at 8:27 pm, while there was still some ambient light in the western sky. Other than that, nothing to report

Tom

COAST LINE FOREVER

It is better to dwell in the corner of a roof than to share a house with a contentious woman! (Solomon)

A contentious woman is like a constant dripping! (Solomon)

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Monday, September 6, 2010 8:45 PM

.....Just took a look at about 9:30 this evening.....{B&W} picture....Yes, I see the lights.   It certainly does look like lights shining thru the thickest part of the atmosphere {fixed position lights}, from a great distance.  Maybe 20 miles.  

Almost like looking at a fixed object thru heat waves....

Edit:  Another thought....Fixed lights {of some sort}, being viewed thru trees at the ridge line....Lights of some distance beyond.  And up on the ridge there is no doubt some wind most of the time to move the trees.

Quentin

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Wednesday, September 8, 2010 10:27 AM

Modelcar


Edit:  Another thought....Fixed lights {of some sort}, being viewed thru trees at the ridge line....Lights of some distance beyond.  And up on the ridge there is no doubt some wind most of the time to move the trees.

That is another possibility. Atmospherics play their game without regard to sunlight. A second thought is that it could be cars on a highway that is not evident during the day.

Norm


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, September 9, 2010 6:42 AM

A bit of research using Google Earth and the FCC's database found at least four towers on Honeysuckle Rd. atop Poor Mountain. That's 12.8 miles from the location of the camera, bearing 246 degrees, and at an elevation of 3725 ft. Multiple towers, atmospherics, and the distance involved, would explain why the lights seem to dance around. They can be seen better on Google Earth than on Bing Maps.

Norm


  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, September 9, 2010 10:29 AM

Norm48327

A bit of research using Google Earth and the FCC's database found at least four towers on Honeysuckle Rd. atop Poor Mountain. That's 12.8 miles from the location of the camera, bearing 246 degrees, and at an elevation of 3725 ft. Multiple towers, atmospherics, and the distance involved, would explain why the lights seem to dance around. They can be seen better on Google Earth than on Bing Maps.

 

Some time ago in looking at Google Earth, I saw those buildings in that spagetti set of roads there, wondering what they were.  I could not make out any towers because the image is pretty much straight down on them and the sun must have been right over them too, as they cast no shadows. But I think I can now make out at least 6 or 8 towers of different types in a small cluster there.  Most definitely at least a portion of the sparklies we are seeing.

Whilst typing this I paused to look again and ran the Google Earth 'Time Line' feature back to 2006 and there are some more distinct images available in that area (better shadows) and I see yet another almost straight line of towers to the north of the spagetti area on that road that must add yet another 6 or 8 towers.  Most definitely a portion of the sparklies.

Good work!  Star I think this satisfies me for what I am seeing.  Yes

Thanks!  Bow

Now back to watching for trains! Cool

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, September 9, 2010 11:26 AM

CMBY,

Thanks for trying to confirm my research. It was the best thing I could find.

There being so many towers atop Poor Mountain on Honeysuckle Rd. would account for the 'dancing lights' because those lights would not fire in synch, and their distance from the camera would also contribute. Each tower would have it's own schedule of lights. All the towers on Poor Mountain are tall enough to require lighting so as to reduce the hazard to air navigation. Atmospherics in the eastern US would contribute to their 'twinkling'.

Six miles northeast of the airport at Mt. Pleasant, NC are two 2,000ft towers that are unpainted and have white strobes during the day, and I presume red at night. In daylight, with the normal haze, they are difficult to spot from the air. I flew there in June, in daylight, and found them difficult to detect. Given the limitations of the Roanoke camera and an internet connection I feel this is the most plausible explanation.

Norm


  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Cordes Jct Ariz.
  • 1,305 posts
Posted by switch7frg on Thursday, September 9, 2010 12:09 PM

Big Smile   Norm, that info confirms my thoughts  on the "sparklies" . It was a bit fillingin between watching the trains.  I will be able to sleep now at night knowing that there is no  Martian space port there.LOL  Wink

                                                                   Cannonball

Y6bs evergreen in my mind

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, September 9, 2010 1:52 PM

UFO's, unidentified flashing objects, create a hazard to nighttime navigation in a small airplane. I would have to ask some local pilots if I got this right.

Norm


  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:56 PM

switch7frg

Big Smile   Norm, that info confirms my thoughts  on the "sparklies" . It was a bit fillingin between watching the trains.  I will be able to sleep now at night knowing that there is no  Martian space port there.LOL  Wink

                                                                   Cannonball

"Space Port"?? Alien ?? Hadn't thought of that... Whoa, maybe that accounts for all the "lost time" I have experienced since I noticed them????  Huh?  

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 9, 2010 7:21 PM

....At about 8:10 this evening, I was looking at the distant ridge location of the {?} "lights"....The sky had just a little light in it yet and the cam was still in color....I could see our "lights".  After just about a minute, the B&W cam pic. came on.

I could see the lights do extend above the fartherst ridge somewhat.  As opposed to being behind trees, etc....as I once suggested.  Or on this side of the ridge.

From what I could observe both in color, and B&W....my opinion of what we're seeing is:  Distant communication towers of some kind with the distance, atmosphere producing the twinkling, etc.  Perhaps a "hot spot" for locating antennas, producing quite a few structures.

Quentin

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Martinsville, Virginia
  • 60 posts
Posted by RichardLHight on Thursday, September 9, 2010 8:05 PM

I live in Martinsville, Virginia which is about 60 miles south by southwest of Roanoke  which in turn is in the general direction of our rail cam view of the Blue Ridge mountains.  I had a bite to eat at the local Taco Bell and when I was leaving, I noticed the distant mountains to the west (because the range was being backlit by the setting sun that was causing the profile of the mountains to be most distinct.  I wasn't expecting to see this sight, but I'm reasonably sure that the profile that I was gazing at is very close if not the same mountains that we're able to see in the rail cam field of vision.

I'll have to wait until tomorrow to take a picture of the range, and if it proves to be the same profile at a closer point of observation, that could locate the source of flickering lights coming from the Greensboro, North Carolina area, and the GSO Greensboro Int. Airport, (but it seems to be much too much activity from our lights to be explained by an airport.

Let's face it guys, the only thing that would explain those lights woud be a continuous fireworks grand finally and that ain't a happening!  I wonder if one of the local TV stations has a helecopter that might be interested in flying toward the profile that was posted here with landmarks notated?

Considering the cost of operating one of those copters will probaly nix that idea.

Rich  

Rich

 

Those that desire, find a way..... Those that don't, find an excuse.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 9, 2010 8:23 PM

Rich, I guess at this point, we really don't know what we're looking at for sure....But, after checking them for some time now, first, I believe the "cluster" of lights are at a fixed location.

The distance / atmospheric conditions with the lights, making the blinking, "moving" appearance. 

Quentin

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Martinsville, Virginia
  • 60 posts
Posted by RichardLHight on Friday, September 10, 2010 7:51 PM
I was going to compare the profile of the mountains west of Martinsville, but a low cloud cover prevented me from doing so.  I'll try again tomorrow.  I just went to RRC and to my surprise, I found a very bright single light hovering over the area in question.  It is randomly coming on and going off but far more intense than the flashing lights we've been musing over.
 
Rich

Rich

 

Those that desire, find a way..... Those that don't, find an excuse.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, September 11, 2010 12:59 PM

Rich.....The "bright light" you noted hovering, I believe is the same light several of us have noted for some time.  It seems to be just a bit to the right {from the blinking lights}, and a bit down from the top of the closer ridge.  Believe it shows up right above the 2nd set of black disk {signals} over in the right sector of the view...The right signal.

Most of the time it appears to be a "dim" light, then {and on no regular timing}, seems to be replaced by a bright light.  I really haven't noticed the bright one now for some time....Have no idea what that might be.

Edit:  Just saw another object......This one I could identify.  A spider on the cam lens.....Showed up on my monitor screen here about 2 inches long.  That's a new twist.

Quentin

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, September 11, 2010 4:53 PM

Guys,

 

The towers on Poor Mountain are plentiful because it is the highest spot around  and that means the broadcasters don't have to build really tall towers to get their signal into Roanoake and Lynchburg. Those flashing lights always seem to be in the same place, and it would make sense to an aviator

Based on the description others have given it my best and last guess.

Norm


  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Champaign, IL
  • 185 posts
Posted by DennisHeld on Saturday, September 11, 2010 6:48 PM

In tonight's twilight, it appears dark.  I would guess that it's an exhaust plume off of the building.  Perhaps a steam plume.  It's bright at night because it's lit.  

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:56 PM

A strange light appeared tonight at about 9:25 PM CDT. 

It started as just a sliver of light at the very top of the scene to the left of center (maybe 1/3 of the way from the left). 

As time progressed it grew larger until it was about the size of one of the black targets in the 3 pair over the tracks near the middle of the screen.  It had a bit of a tear-drop shape, but more rounded on the right and concave on the upper left.

It remained visible for about 1/2 hour, slowly moving down toward the buildings. 

It seemed to alight on the roof of the building behind the left edge of the parking garage, where it was absorbed by the building, growing dimmer and smaller over about 5 minutes, until 9:47 when it dissappeared completely.

I suspect that it will be back tomorrow night, though I think it will probably be a bit earlier.

My guess is that it was made of green cheese!

Anybody else see it?

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:10 PM

...........Maybe this web cam is actually pointed at area 51.

Quentin

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:30 PM

I had considered that much earlier in this great scientific discussion of strange lights in the sky... but Area 51 is at the compass direction of 281 degrees from the camera location... the right edge of the view is at 265 degrees so Area 51 is off screen to the right and out of view... It is even doubtful that something in the flight path to runway 16 at Area 51 would be visible from the Roanoke Railcam.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:38 PM

..........Don't forget, anything is possible, connected with area 51.

Quentin

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:44 PM

Ahhhhh!  Maybe that hunk of green cheese was heavy enought to warp space such that Area 51 was for a moment south of where Google Earth shows it... or maybe it warped Google Earth to put Area 51 some place where it ain't. 

 

Of course by the Hiesenburg Principle, since I know WHEN Google Earth took the arial photos, I can't know where Area 51 was at that time.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, September 13, 2010 4:37 PM

Semper Vaporo

I had considered that much earlier in this great scientific discussion of strange lights in the sky... but Area 51 is at the compass direction of 281 degrees from the camera location... the right edge of the view is at 265 degrees so Area 51 is off screen to the right and out of view... It is even doubtful that something in the flight path to runway 16 at Area 51 would be visible from the Roanoke Railcam.

 

Unless you can factor in visibility of over 2,000 miles area 51 would be highly unlikely.

Norm


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, September 13, 2010 4:37 PM

Semper Vaporo

I had considered that much earlier in this great scientific discussion of strange lights in the sky... but Area 51 is at the compass direction of 281 degrees from the camera location... the right edge of the view is at 265 degrees so Area 51 is off screen to the right and out of view... It is even doubtful that something in the flight path to runway 16 at Area 51 would be visible from the Roanoke Railcam.

 

Unless you can factor in visibility of over 2,000 miles area 51 would be highly unlikely.

Norm


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:48 AM

The camera appears to be down again. Checked it today and got a blank screen.

Norm


  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: morganton north carolina
  • 515 posts
Posted by j610 on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:02 PM

Working fine for me at 3:00 pm.    RON

J610

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy