Trackside Lounge, Milepost 0906.01--no defects

[Deggesty]

Murphy Siding

Oh- if only the trolls were as nice as the folks here!

If only they could meet some of us face to face. So far, Ricki and I have the pleasure of meeting and eating with only Carl and Pat (and he still said nice things about me!) I feel that I could sit down and spend pleasant time with the regulars on the Trackside Lounge and the Cafe, and other threads that I read and post on. Whatever your age and your actual experience with railroading, I have enjoyed sharing in your knowledge, and I hope you have appreciated my contributions.

As I have said on another thread, I regret that I did not begin taking part before last summer. But, what wasn't done, wasn't done, and cannot be done now.

One more comment about this coward: he must have a miserable, hate-filled existence.

Johnny

[CShaveRR]

Deggesty

Carl: What's really fascinating to me is that not all miles are created equal--they have to compensate for the narrowing of the meridians as one gets closer to the poles. In Michigan, I remember, there are three or four places where mileage is adjusted--the further you get from the Prime Meridian (Larry, you'd be east of it; I'll stay west of it), the more marked the changes became. So those straight north-and-south roads would take quite a jog when they'd come to these points.

Carl, don't you mean as you get farther from the baseline?

I always understood the Prime Meridian to be the one that runs through Greenwich, England (0^o 0' 0"); does Larry live in England or on the Continent?

I had never thought of the jogs in section-line roads as being caused by changes in latitude, but, as you say, this is necessary if you use the same baseline as you go north any great distance.

Johnny

Perhaps the meridian line in Michigan isn't called the Prime Meridian, after all. But its location is just as Larry describes.

I actually meant as you get further away from this meridian, along the baselines (there are several baselines), the jog in the streets (which are usually at section boundaries) becomes more pronounced. At the meridian, there would be no deviation, but by the time you get close to Lake Michigan, the deviation is close to a mile.

There's also a base latitude line, from which the town(ship)s are numbered north and south--it's roughly 42 degrees 25 minutes north latitude, and forms a lot of county lines--on the west coast it/s Allegan/Van Buren, Allegan/Kalamazoo, etc. Coincidentally (or perhaps not), this line, extended across Lake Michigan, appears to form the Illinois-Wisconsin border.

Older atlases seem to pay a lot more attention to the townships than do their modern counterparts. I can remember doing some research about the location of stations along old lines in Michigan, and it was helpful to have an atlas showing townships and section numbers to help pinpoint these places.

[Noah Hofrichter]

 I know I don't post too often around here, but I do read the posts regularly, and I tend to learn quite a bit. Most of the time it's simply that I don't have a lot to add to the conversation. But today I actually have some pictures to share again.

Apparently last Saturday was my lucky day. My dad and I had to go to Stoughton, Wisconsin (south of Madison) for my cousin's graduation party (I graduated from high school a few weeks ago too.) As we were headed along the beltline on the south side of Madison towards Stoughton, we rolled over the Wisconsin and Southern railroad tracks and I looked to the south as I've often done without seeing much of anything. Normally the trains in each direction on this line between Madison and Janesville, WI run in the early morning or late at night. However, this time much to my surprise I saw a moving train! It appeared two of the WSOR's fairly new MP15s had a decent size MAJ (Madison-Janesville) type train in tow, and they were moving. It looked like a stop in McFarland, between Madison and Stoughton, was in order!

I found a spot on the west side of McFarland, and we waited for the train to catch up. After a few minutes it did, but they were going slow and appeared to be making a set out as I guessed he might. We moved one crossing up and as he shoved back around a curve and I had my first opportunity for a shot of a cool consist:

 

 

He made two more moves to leave the siding and hook back up to the train before heading east. The light was dead on the nose, so I elected to shoot between some wires off an overhead bridge. Thanks to being behind a car that actually wanted to go the speed limit and stop at stop signs we just barely made it back in time to shoot him from the overpass:

 

 

I liked the pair of glass-forward MP15s, and it was nice to have finally caught a train on the Madison Subdivision. Very pleased with myself with my luck, we headed for Stoughton and the party.

 

Fast forward a little. The party was a success, and we left about 7:15 for home. I was expecting a uneventful trip home and the end to an already good day. But as we were rolling along the beltline again, this time just a little ways east of where we first saw the train in the morning, I just happened to glance over the swamp towards the tracks, only to see the end of another train! This one was headed towards Madison. Another stop was in order...

 

About 15-20 minutes later the 4003 and the 3803 arrived at at location known as MX. It used to be (and still is called) known as Monona tower, as it was the crossing of the CN&W and MILW line, literally out in the middle of a lake on a earthen causeway. Today both lines are under WSOR ownership. I've never shot anything but a steam engine on a cloudy day here before, so it was nice to finally get the chance in what was literally the last light of day as the train moved from the Milwaukee to the CNW alignment. The actual diamond is right where the train is curving away in the first picture:

 

 

 

 

When we arrived the tracks were in full sun, but when the train arrived 15 minutes later the shadows were just starting to creep up the bank. Five minutes later and the sun would have been gone.

 

It's been a long time since I've had a day as lucky as Saturday was, and normally everything works out wrong, not right. I never dreamed I'd catch one train on the Madison Subdivision in a day, let alone two, and both when I wasn't even looking for a train. And the clouds held off for me to get well lit shots. Maybe I should have bought a lottery ticket...

 

Enjoy!

 

Noah

 

 

[CShaveRR]

Nice shots, Noah--and allow me to be the first to congratulate you on graduating! What's next for you?

[CShaveRR]

Pat and I were out on our bikes again this morning (before the rain hits), and guess what we encountered: CNW 8646 and 8701 at the head of the West Chicago local! Those units had reportedly been destined for storage after their display at the C&NWHS convention in Des Moines/Boone, but they've been back "home" for at least the past week. The number of locomotives stored on UP has gone down slightly since last week.

[CNW 6000]

CShaveRR

Pat and I were out on our bikes again this morning (before the rain hits), and guess what we encountered: CNW 8646 and 8701 at the head of the West Chicago local! Those units had reportedly been destined for storage after their display at the C&NWHS convention in Des Moines/Boone, but they've been back "home" for at least the past week. The number of locomotives stored on UP has gone down slightly since last week.

It's good that UP is using them again.  I heard that they got their paint touched up at IRM while there and that they are supposed to be on static display at Diesel Days.  Our plan is still to make that event.  I think we're going on Sunday.

Saw an all GEVO train on the CN yesterday.  How nice to hear all 3 of 'em chugging away and working hard!

[Deggesty]

Noah, I like the pictures, especially those on the lake. In April, 1971, I went up to Madison from Chicago and back on the MILW. I knew of the crossing, and I spoke to the flagman about it when we were leaving Madison. He took me to the rear, and I got a brief look at it; I do not remember if I got a picture of it.

Have you plans for further education, or are you joining the workforce?

Johnny

[Modelcar]

.......Noah:  Beautiful photos...!

[Noah Hofrichter]

Thanks guys! Glad you enjoy the pictures.

Johnny, I always wish I had a chance to see the MX when it still had a tower. But at least there are plenty of pictures to look at.

Good to hear the CNW units are actually being used again too. Like Dan I'd heard they'd been taken out of storage at IRM, but I wasn't sure if they were actually being used or if they were just in storage at a different place.

Thanks for the congratulations as well. I'm headed to college in the fall. I'll be attending the University of Wisconsin - Platteville, and I intend to major in civil engineering. I'm thinking about a transportation or municipal emphasis, as I'd like to work in a transportation related field, whether that be roads, airports, mass transit or possibly railroads if it were to work out.

In fact I was just down registering for classes yesterday. I'm really looking forward to starting the whole college experience. Plus, as an aside, being in Platteville I won't be that far from the Mississippi River and the railroads that run along it for some convenient picture taking opportunities, if I ever get some free time on a weekend.

Noah

[blhanel]

Noah Hofrichter

I'm headed to college in the fall. I'll be attending the University of Wisconsin - Platteville, and I intend to major in civil engineering. I'm thinking about a transportation or municipal emphasis, as I'd like to work in a transportation related field, whether that be roads, airports, mass transit or possibly railroads if it were to work out.

In fact I was just down registering for classes yesterday. I'm really looking forward to starting the whole college experience. Plus, as an aside, being in Platteville I won't be that far from the Mississippi River and the railroads that run along it for some convenient picture taking opportunities, if I ever get some free time on a weekend.

on both counts.  Maybe we'll run into each other in East Dubuque.

[CNW 6000]

I'll join the chorus Noah, congrats.  Engineering is a very vital field and from what I hear (I know a couple) you can get some pretty lucrative offers if you do well in school.  A friend of mine, Ben, will be transferring down to UWP in a year or so for that very program.  An avid MR enthusiast and photographer of railroads I think you two would probably get along pretty well.

[bubbajustin]

congrats Noah, and I wish you much sucess. Well, Just got done talking to Noriss, and I guess that good for nothing dirt scum bag is gone for now.

A really humid and warm evening here. 72* at the moment with a really high humidity factor. I have my bedside stand fan on high on me as I type this post.

I'm glad to report that mom's stiches are dissolving, and she is well on the way to recovery. Also......... Drumroll...........

T- minus 3 weeks 4 days ad howevermany hours and seconds left till Amtrak vacation!!!!

[tree68]

Noah - nice shots! 

Willy will appreciate this picture:

There were no warnings on the cell, the radar didn't indicate rotation, and I couldn't discern any in the time that I was watching it.  Looked pretty ominous, though.

I was out doing business with an official vehicle, so I didn't have my Rebel with me.  Had to settle for the cell phone...

Edit:  I just talked with the local weather folks, who also saw the same thing.  They said there was indeed rotation, and that they could see it in the center.

[bubbajustin]

Morning all!

Larry, that looks like some storm. I hope no one was hurt! We are supposed to have pop up showers if anything today. I went out to the garage to take out the recycleables and I said... Maby I'll wait for dad to get home before I go up to the post office. Hot and sticky!!! 85*for a high Friday supposed to be 91* and very high humidity. Carl I bet it is really tough for you on day's like that.

Have a good day all!

PS go and read hotel reviews some times. I think it is better than LArry the Cable Gus SOMETIMES. GET-R-DONE!!!

[CShaveRR]

Well, it used to be tough, but in case the new air conditioner can't handle it, the old one is still available as well. We just make sure there's plenty of drinking water around. I'm not bike-commuting as often as I used to, so that shouldn't be a problem, either. Our highs, by the way, are supposed to be "middle 80s" for Friday, and about 88 for next Tuesday. Rain is in our forecast to some degree (sorry!) for every day out of the next seven, save for Sunday and Monday.

bubbajustin

Hot and sticky!!! 85*for a high Friday supposed to be 91* and very high humidity. Carl I bet it is really tough for you on day's like that.

[mudchicken]

Carl:

You be referring to the Michigan Principal Meridian of 1815 (Thanks to Thomas Jefferson and the General Land Office's Public Lands Survey System....."Guide Meridians", Standard parallels, township lines, range lines and the related brain damage I get to play with ...and follow in the footsteps of that original surveyor)...Most (not all) PLSS Systems use every 8th township/rangeline east and west as a new guide meridian off the principal meridian....Standard parallels do the same with every 8th township line going north-south from the baseline.

That's what you get for imposing a flat surface on a spherical solid!.....If you live in the "firelands" in Northern Ohio (SE of JoeKoh), just give up - none of this will make much sense.

You live in the 3rd Principal Meridian (1805) in Illinois

Mooks & I live in the 6th Principal Meridian...

Tree lives over in Metes and Bounds" land ....no guide meridians there.

The PLSS System started in SE Ohio and headed west in 1785 with the Seven Ranges (Ohio purchase)...Cincinnati is the mix of two PLSS zones and a Metes and Bounds Zone known as the Virginia Military District that GW's heirs had a hand in settling.

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/cadastralsurvey/meridians.html

 

 

[CShaveRR]

Thanks, MC! I'm not sure that Michigan's "guides" are as frequent as every eighth town/range, though.

Here around Chicago, we have a couple of "Indian Boundary Lines" that wreak havoc on the street numbering system, particularly south of town. Township lines appear to have been established regardless of these, yet the street discrepancies remain.

[mudchicken]

Indian claims are always an adventure, usually with a different set of rules for the indian nation, treaties and Surveyor General's instructions...welcome to my world.

[tree68]

I live within an area that was part of a treaty between NY and the Six Nations back in the late 1700's.  The catch is that this particular plat was not turned over to NY in said treaty - it was turned over to an individual because of his "friendship" with the native Americans in question.  He chose it because it would control a significant (at the time) land crossing (way too long to be considered a portage).

He then up and disappeared, leaving land ownership rather up in the air for a number of years.  Things were finally squared up and a major landowner established a clear deed.

[tree68]

I stumbled on this site which does an excellent job of explaining both surveying methods.  Good read for those with an interest in the subject.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

You're right - a good link and intro-level article, Larry.  Thanks for finding and sharing.  And - to keep this "On Topic" - if you then click on the "NEXT" arrow at either the top or bottom of that page, it takes you to a little article entitled "A Man and His Instrument" about a Canadian fellow - one O.J. Klotz - who did some railroad surveys in the late 1800's.  It also has photos of his transit that is apparently marked or inscribed as "Michigan Airline Railway" on the compass plate (see lower left phot of same).

One other aspect about "Metes & Bounds vs. Publc Lands" surveys is worth noting - they are both "tools", and like all tools each has applications where one is better than the other.  For example, the Public Lands system is simple to use and makes a lot of sense where the land is basically flat and not interrupted by mountain ranges or many streams and lakes, etc., such as the stereotypical images of the Midwstern farms. 

On the other hand, here in the NorthEast in places there is often nothing about the terrain that is straight or flat.  As a result, most boundaries that are established that way - of either states, counties, townships, or properties - usually result in some piece that is anomalous.  For example, something is isolated on the other side of a stream, split across a ridge or two watersheds, etc.  There are many instances where life would be easier had those boundaries followed a natural demarcation line of some sort, such as a ridge or divide or stream, etc.  Common and easy examples are sanitary sewer and storm drainage systems, where all-gravity flow is highly desirable.  But when a part of a political subdivsion or district is on the opposite side of a ridge or divide, then it either has to be pumped over, or some agreement reached with the neighboring community that's downstream to accept and handle the flow from the "orphaned" piece.  That could have been avoided if the boundary had been made at the ridge line.  And to do that, the "metes & bounds" system is far better suited to describing those many non-perpendicular changes in direction, including curves - such as from a highway or railroad  R-O-W alignment, natural monuments, and the like.  Plus, a full metes & bounds description includes not only the course (bearing or azimuth) and distance, but also references to the "monuments" at the ends of each line or curve and any along the way, as well a "calls" for the dove-tailing abutting/ adjoining property - 3 different ways of describing a parcel altogether, so it is doubly redundant (or is that "triply" redundant ?).  Oh, by the way - can you tell I'm from a metes & bounds state ?    On a more cynical note, that system helps keep a lot of surveyors and their staffs gainfully occupied - as much as any full-employment or stimulus bill !! 

Thanks again for the research and the link.  Amazing what turns up here !

- Paul North. 

[mudchicken]

Then there's the lawyers that can't write a legal description (metes and bounds or otherwise... some of the latent and patent ambiguities are a mess, not to mention the math errors) who now want the term changed to property descriptions. Lc and gabe need to go get the BAR to do a little house cleanin'....(In this state, new legal prperty descriptions are supposed to be signed by the author of same...Surveyors do, most attorney's do not - especially the title company folks...any wonder why.?)

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

You're right - a good link and intro-level article, Larry.  Thanks for finding and sharing.  And - to keep this "On Topic" - if you then click on the "NEXT" arrow at either the top or bottom of that page, it takes you to a little article entitled "A Man and His Instrument" about a Canadian fellow - one O.J. Klotz - who did some railroad surveys in the late 1800's.  It also has photos of his transit that is apparently marked or inscribed as "Michigan Airline Railway" on the compass plate (see lower left phot of same).

Right on, Paul! I don't remember who explained the system to me, about forty-six years ago, but this description is what I remembered. I like your further comments about the relative values of the two systems.

Johnny

[tree68]

Deggesty

Right on, Paul! I don't remember who explained the system to me, about forty-six years ago, but this description is what I remembered. I like your further comments about the relative values of the two systems.

Johnny

I no longer live in Michigan, meaning my kids didn't do seventh grade there, so I don't know if they still teach "Michigan History & Government" like they did when I was in seventh grade.

If they don't (and if they don't teach stuff like this) one wonders if they realize that nearly 50 years later, we're discussing something like this, and know more or less from whence we speak...

I'm sure the argument would be that it's not stuff kids today need to know.....

[CNW 6000]

tree68

I'm sure the argument would be that it's not stuff kids today need to know.....

Hmph...there was actually a BOE member who suggested removing Civics/History classes from HS curriculum on grounds of 'waste'.  For some odd reason...he wasn't re-elected, I wonder why. 

Metes & Bounds as well as Tribal Methodology was taught in one of my Geography classes in college.  I found the course fairly easy probably due to my previous exposures from Boy Scouts and my father.  My father was the Zoning Admin for the County for 18 years until he retired so I'd hear all kinds of fun discussions between he, his staff, and some applicant/owner or other if I'd stop in his office. 

[bubbajustin]

Morning all!

Seeings how you all are discussing things that I have absolutley no clue what you are talking about, I will not add anything in that respect... I will add....

It's just plain hot outside. WeatherBug says 77, but I bet it is all of 85* out there. Humidity is reallly bad. Water is pouring out of the back of window A/C. My dog Rex is really not taking this heat well. he is solid black may I add.

Everyone stay cool!

[CShaveRR]

Larry, I'm your age or thereabouts, but didn't have a course like you describe in seventh grade. It could have been that I went to a parochial school, but that wouldn't apply to Pat (also a Michigander), and she went to public schools.

There was a Michigan History course offered at our high school. I kind of regret not taking it (I was in the math-science track). The geography courses they offered in school were considered to be "rinky-dink", but I might have found those interesting, too, particularly in light of my subsequent life.

Justin, when you get to high school, don't be shy about taking geography and local history courses if you have room for them. A lot of railroading and railfanning could be more understandable with some of those courses under your belt!

[CShaveRR]

Finally, some good news. A coworker of mine reports that there's a rumor of ten road men (he didn't say whether they were conductors or engineers) being recalled on the Illinois side. He has a son who's waiting for his recall--hopefully he's that much closer!

[bubbajustin]

Eveing all!

A really hot and humid day today. Dad says that it got up to 110*F in the plant today. We ended up bringing our dog in the house today, because of the heat. 90 something was the high today. 89* and very humid right now.

Carl, I was told that taking advanced Geography classes would help me as an engineer. I mean an engineer has to know his terratory right?! I also hope that those co-wokers will get called back to work as SOON  as possible. Looks like the recession has hit absolutly everyone. Don't mean to start an argument, but do you think that the economey, and the rail industry are showing sighns of going back up? On my stock monitor app. it looks like CSXT has had an ok day gaining 0.68 points. NS has stayed N/A, abd BNSF Railway has been thi big sucess story today at +1.31 points. Who knows what's next.

[CShaveRR]

I don't think that school geography courses will have any bearing on your day-to-day work as an engineer or conductor. You'll have to know your territory, but that refers to the signals, stations, mileposts, curves, and grades. A geography course would give you a little more information--which watershed is beyond the top of that grade, what the line might be curving to avoid, why the industry located here, rather than elsewhere on the line, and so on. A lot of the geography education is more useful to some people higher up in the pecking order than I am. (For example, we block cars for Selkirk--I happen to know what Selkirk is, and where it is, and what traffic should be routed through it from here, but a lot of my co-workers don't have a clue to any of that, and some don't even know what "SELK" on the hump list stands for!) It's also more interesting to railfans, because they would want to know about the railroads, past and present, that surround them, where they went, and why.