FYI to anyone still following this thread to here:
This discussion has apparently shifted over to the above-linked thread, which is titled "Will Futuristic Railroad Yards Be Called Yards?", starting at the 2nd post up from the bottom on Page 1 of 4 (presently), with a post by greyhounds on 03-13-2009 at 1:15 AM:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/3890.aspx?PageIndex=1
- Paul North.
Bucyrus croteaudd, I see you have been down this road before: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/3890/20596.aspx#20596
croteaudd, I see you have been down this road before:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/3890/20596.aspx#20596
Led to the same bridge-out sign, too.
RWM
Ed --
You're a little high on the cost. But that only is the cost for handling the car -- the labor, utilities, maintenance, capital, amoritization, interest, and taxes, of building, operating, and maintaining the yard, divided by the number of cars it handles. The inspection would be charged anyway because of the mileage requirement; you can't always hold it against the yard. The capital cost of the car itself that is consumed while it is in the yard is not included either.
But the number is only useful to compare one yard against another yard. On the plus side of the ledger is the value the yard creates, because it enables reduction of train miles, locomotive miles, and demands on main line capacity. Just saying "that yard costs us $XX per car!" implies to some people the existence of a wonderful alternative where there is no charge at all, but in truth the alternative to the yard -- no yard -- usually costs much more.
This is the best thread of the year, at least educationally for me. Thanks for the input. This has been quite a primer on yard operations and other aspects of the industry.
What is involved in "car inspections"? How detailed are the inspections and approximately how long does it take per car?
Also, back in the LTL days all aspects of the movement cycle were assigned costs including P&D, terminal handling, break bulk handling, line haul, and administration. I am sure this information is used for railroads.
Does anyone know what it costs to handle a single carload thru an efficient hump yard? Just to clarify, this is not what is charged a shipper, but what a railroad has determined it's costs are to classify a car. No doubt those cost vary by railroad and specifically by the efficiency of a yard, not to mention the number of cars classified by yard, but a rough idea would be neat to know.
My guess is somewhere in the $100 per car range. But, it is only a guess.
ed
Bucyrus croteaudd Paul North, Concerning your post of March 12, 8:44 A.M.: Congratulations on your ‘hijacking’ slickness! But, I don’t mind. What fascinates people is a fascination in itself.The original thread’s purpose was for the forum to possibly field efficiency savings that might be able to be tapped in order to get railroaders back to work. But, it has turned into a ‘sorting facility’ discovery thread. But, discovery simply will not be successful here. Everybody may as well howl at the moon! Nevertheless, Paul, I can’t fault you for trying.It must be admitted that for those unfamiliar with railcar brakes, this thread has really given them an education. croteaudd, I see you have been down this road before: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/3890/20596.aspx#20596
croteaudd Paul North, Concerning your post of March 12, 8:44 A.M.: Congratulations on your ‘hijacking’ slickness! But, I don’t mind. What fascinates people is a fascination in itself.The original thread’s purpose was for the forum to possibly field efficiency savings that might be able to be tapped in order to get railroaders back to work. But, it has turned into a ‘sorting facility’ discovery thread. But, discovery simply will not be successful here. Everybody may as well howl at the moon! Nevertheless, Paul, I can’t fault you for trying.It must be admitted that for those unfamiliar with railcar brakes, this thread has really given them an education.
Paul North,
Concerning your post of March 12, 8:44 A.M.:
Congratulations on your ‘hijacking’ slickness! But, I don’t mind. What fascinates people is a fascination in itself.The original thread’s purpose was for the forum to possibly field efficiency savings that might be able to be tapped in order to get railroaders back to work. But, it has turned into a ‘sorting facility’ discovery thread. But, discovery simply will not be successful here. Everybody may as well howl at the moon! Nevertheless, Paul, I can’t fault you for trying.It must be admitted that for those unfamiliar with railcar brakes, this thread has really given them an education.
With similar word games, non-answers and non reesults.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Bucyrus - Thanks for that reference.
Croteaudd
Considering how little fact you have offered you have sure kept the pot stirred. For those who have better things to do, I offer the following summary of your posts.
#1 March 2 You offer the hypotheses that yards are ineffecient because they delay cars.
#2 March 3 You confirm your concern is car delay.
#3 March 4 You point out that cars cost money.
#4 March 5 You claim that railroad management is too busy to think. You offer a rant about "profiteers". You opine that great forces are at work to hinder the new. You call for the unification of management and labor.
#5 March 5 You admit that you had no idea of what real transit times are. You claim to have figured unidentifed things out 25 years ago that are just now happening.
#6 Nothing new.
#7 March 8 You finally make clear that you have in mind some revised hardware to replace yards. You do not want to bleed off cars. You admit it will take a long time to design and constuct your new hardware.
#8 March 9 You discuss "moniterily wicked" railroad.
#9 March 11 You tell us that railroad management is too stupid to adopt your insights.
Several others have tried to get through to you. This is my last attempt. You have made no case. You have offered a hypothesis, made acusations, and insulted some of us, but you have not offered a solution to the problem you have identified. We have no clue how you would shorten yard dwell time or restructure the carload network. If what we got is what you presented to railroad, or any other management, you are lucky to get away with a yawn.
When you tell people they are stupid and you are smart you better be able to demonstrate your smarts. We are all, pros and amateurs alike, awaiting that demonstration. Are you related to Futuremodal? He too was smarter than everyone else, but he would at least reveal his superior ideas.
Mac
PNWRMNM I am sure Carl enjoys going home every night, presuming of course he has enough whiskers to hold a day job.
I am sure Carl enjoys going home every night, presuming of course he has enough whiskers to hold a day job.
My signature speaks the truth, Mac--nobody's going to bump me off this job! I would have replied sooner, but I had to work...
Yard air: The car inspectors usually lace up the hoses with air on (at least to some degree); it assures them that the air is flowing.
Bleeder rods: The old AB brake valves required holding the bleeder open until the blow stopped, draining everything. The air usually wouldn't stop until the piston was all the way in. These bleeder rods were distinguished by a 90-degree angle, serving as a handle. In the early 1960s, the ABD brake valve began to be used; it incorporated a quick-release feature, and also didn't exhaust all of the air from the brake system (someone will have to remind me which half of the reservoir remains full). So, you just had to bump the rod and the air would come out until the piston went in. At least that's the way it was supposed to work. A faulty diaphragm somewhere might change that, and the piston would come out again. Then you had to hold to bleed until all of the air exhausted. Not very pleasant, since they changed the bleeder rod to a little curl at the end of a straight rod to distinguish these.
One thing I was told is that if you pulled the bleeder rod on an ABD-equipped car that had been bled, it's possible that you could actually set up the brakes. It's not supposed to happen, but occasionally does--and I've seen the pistons lengthening as the cars go by and die on the lead.
Another rumor I heard (but could never substantiate) was that a train could be put into emergency by bumping the bleeder rod while the trainline was charged. I can't think of any reason anyone would even want to try it.
ABD valves have often been superseded by ABDW, ZIAW, and Goodness-only-knows what other portions of the alphabet, but they all bleed off pretty much the same. You probably won't find too many cars with AB valves left, except possibly in non-interchange or non-revenue service.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
MP173 Earlier in the thread a quick reference was made to RPM (used as statistics). What is it and where? [snip] ed
What is it and where?
[snip]
ed - and others -
I haven't seen where anyone replied to your question yet, so here it is:
RPM = "Railroad Performance Measures", at:
http://www.railroadpm.org/
Here's an excerpt from the intro page:
"Welcome to the Railroad Performance Measures site, where weekly performance statistics are voluntarily reported by these major North American freight railroads:
We began reporting weekly performance measures in January 1999 as part of our commitment to improve communications with our customers. Please refer to the Definitions page for an explanation of the three measures:
• Cars On Line
• Train Speed
• Terminal Dwell (Hours)Railroad Performance Measures are published each Wednesday at 2:00 Eastern Time."
Although CN apparently no longer belongs or reports, similar information is available on its website, if you're interested in that.
Hope this is helpful. Thanks much for your continuing participation in this discussion - it's been very informative.
And in RE: to the bleed rods thing - I was always under the impression that if you only bled the car off enough that the cylinder starts to go in that you could (somehow) end back up with the brakes applying.
They always told us / trained us to make sure the car was COMPLETELY bled off before trying to switch without air for that reason.
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
I'm jealous of you guys that have facilities where you can flat switch, or kick cars,or use a hump to classify stuff.
The yard job that I work on occasion is on a downhill slope to the north and we're not allowed to kick, drop, etc. Everything has to be "pushed to rest" on a track.
clarkfork I hope somebody on line knows a lot more about airbrakes than I do. However, it seems to me that on the ABD and newer "triple valves' one can bleed the air out of the brake cylinder without bleeding all of the air out of the auxilary or emergency reservoirs. To just bleed the brake cylinders one would just give the rod a jerk. If one wanted to bleed the air out of the auxilary and/or emergency reservoir as well, he would pull on the nbleed rod for a longer time -- say 15 to 20 seconds. I think the ABD valve came along in the 60s and the the replacement ABDW valve came along in the 70s. I don't know what they are putting on cars today. If I remember correctly an emergency application puts about 50 pounds into the brake cylinder but still leaves 50 pounds in both the auxilary and emergency reservoirs. Thus when air pressure is put back into the system the car's reservoir pressures start from something like 50 pounds, not from zero. Bottling air brakes on a train has resulted in a number of run aways.
I hope somebody on line knows a lot more about airbrakes than I do. However, it seems to me that on the ABD and newer "triple valves' one can bleed the air out of the brake cylinder without bleeding all of the air out of the auxilary or emergency reservoirs. To just bleed the brake cylinders one would just give the rod a jerk. If one wanted to bleed the air out of the auxilary and/or emergency reservoir as well, he would pull on the nbleed rod for a longer time -- say 15 to 20 seconds. I think the ABD valve came along in the 60s and the the replacement ABDW valve came along in the 70s. I don't know what they are putting on cars today. If I remember correctly an emergency application puts about 50 pounds into the brake cylinder but still leaves 50 pounds in both the auxilary and emergency reservoirs. Thus when air pressure is put back into the system the car's reservoir pressures start from something like 50 pounds, not from zero.
Bottling air brakes on a train has resulted in a number of run aways.
You may be correct, but it is news to me. I thought the ability of some bleeder control rods to stick open if you give them a quick bump was to just save time by allowing the switchman to move onto to bleeding the next car without having to stand there and hold the bleed control for the entire length of the bleed.
I have never heard that when the bleed control rod is holding open on its own, that it only bleeds the cylinder and not the reservoir. Can anybody else confirm that?
Sheesh, with all this trollin', hijackin', gamblin', and yard stuff there's never a yard bull when you need one...
LC
RWM Thanks. Guess I can put off asking my doctor about Aricept.
My compliments to those who have taken the time to spell out details on all the functions and activities in the modern rail yard. It should be clear to anyone following this thread that even when everything is going just right, the individual steps can be very time consuming.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Carl, RWM, and Mac -
Thank you ! very much for your extensive, thoughtful, and detailed replies. Taken altogether, they are pretty much the kind of thing I wanted to know, as you were able to discern. Clearly, the relationships are pretty complicated inside that "black box" of an operation - even though it's actually out in the open for all to see. RWM, I particularly liked your paragraph about the dichotomy of road vs. yard operations. I'm a sucker for that kind of observation, analysis, and turn of phrase, so now I've got something else to think about while my mind is less fully occupied*, and the next time I'm eating lunch or otherwise watching the action at the NS Allentown Yard. Again, thanks to all of you - also to jeaton for the "Yard Air" question.
[* Anybody else hear the report on "Doodling" and its apparent performance-enhancing effect on brain activity that was on NPR's Morning Edition today ?]
Murphy, RWM, and LC - I'm still chuckling every time I think about each of your responses above. I'll have to knock it off or people will wonder what's so funny today. Each time I look at RWM's, the end keeps seeming to want to be "White Rabbit" instead ! Grace Slick had some voice, eh ? I think you left out the ending, though - "Feed your head . . . feed your head !" - which is what this thread and Forum are all about, as far as I'm concerned. I'm also wondering what the results would be if a thread were started on our favorite songs/ music/ tunes, and why - if there would be some commonality among us. But I've already inadvertently done a slick enough job of hijacking this thread while we're waiting for a substantive response on "sorting" from the orignal poster, so maybe I'll do that later sometime. In the meantime, I've got several backlogs to work through.
Thanks again, guys. Have a good day !
Limitedclear Railway Man 122 posts and 2,000 views so far, and we're still on the title page of the White Paper. RWM When the trolling stops we can get back to fishin'... LC
Railway Man 122 posts and 2,000 views so far, and we're still on the title page of the White Paper. RWM
122 posts and 2,000 views so far, and we're still on the title page of the White Paper.
When the trolling stops we can get back to fishin'...
Oh ye of little faith....
I've asked croteaudd to explain to us, exactly what it is he's trying to explain. That way, we'd know if he was serious, or just playing word games with us. I'm awaiting his reply. If he replies and wants to explain his viewpoint, then I guess we have something to talk about. If he doesn't...well, these things usually digress into one of those weird threads about Monty Python quotes and such.
I think we're all being "stringlined" through the apparently "learning curve" that none of us can comprehend
You saw correctly, Jay. It comes under the heading "Yard Air" and describes a (usually) fixed compressor and air distribution system to at least one end of all the departure tracks. I don't know of a yard installation or reconstruction in the last 20 years without it on the Departure Tracks. We put in yard air at terminal elevators, flat-switch class yards, autoramp tracks, intermodal terminals, short-line interchange tracks, ethanol plants, coal plants, coal mines, and large industrial plants -- any place where trains are departed frequently and have to be broken apart. It saves a lot of time because now the power doesn't have to be there at the same time as the car men. About the only place we won't put it in is at a location that's irregularly manned and unsecured, because the compressor tends to disappear.
Speaking of ways to boost the process... I seem to recall seeing air hoses at ends of the tracks in the out bound yard for the south operation at the Illinois Central's Markham yard. (The imagination of a dimning memory?) If real, I assume they provided compressed air from a fixed compressor in the yard and could have the train line charged before the road engines came down. I don't know if that got trains out faster, but it might have helped prevent penalty payments to crews for initial terminal delay. At the time-it was the days of 5 man crews- payments were made at an hourly rate if crews did not get out of the yard with their train in something like two hours after the call time. Any authoritive comments?
Pual,
While I am no longer in the belly of the beast as is Carl, I have been and in a number of locations. I will attempt to answer your questions in a general way based on an "ideal" hump yard with separate arrival, hump, and departure tracks.
While Carl is correct in saying that how long it takes to do things is variable one can work with averages or usuallys. In fact each yard has a rythym. The loud beats in the rythm are departure of the "symbol" freights. For talking purposes these are the ones that the superintendent and the chief dispatcher pay attention to. These trains have a routine call and departure time. How much of a yard's trains dispatched is in that category varies from yard to yard. Lesser beats are departure of other long haul freights and whatever locals, transfers, and/or city switchers the yard originates. The other long haul trains have routine call and departure times but the powers that be care less about them. The locals, transfers and city jobs have standing call times so they happen at the same time every day. Think of getting these trains out as "what we have to do".
To put trains out you have to get them in. The symbol trains inbound should arrive about the same time every day. The bosses have their eye on them. The lesser trains get there when they get there but they will usually hit in the same window. That window may be 4-6 hours. Extras show up whenever. Your inbound locals, transfers, and city jobs also have practical arrival windows. These are your raw materials. You have no control over them except to hold trains out if you are plugged, a very bad thing that we will discuss no more.
The first thing that happens is landing the train. This is the time from when the head end goes by your yard board or entrance switch until the train is all in the track and power is out of the track. Half an hour or so should be typical if no hitches, more if very large or very busy yard.
Next thing is inbound inspection. This generally has two parts, waiting for the carmen and actual inspection time. Waiting depends on what else they have to do and priority of inbound train. Could be nothing to several hours but there are patterns. If "normal" train and things are not backed up say 2-4-6 hours wait time. Inspection is function of number of cars, how far away the shack is from the inbound cut, how he gets there, and does he walk or ride the inspection. I would figure at least two hours for a 100 car 6,000 foot long train. They can inspect almost as fast as they can walk. You need to walk to do a worthwhile inspection.
Actual humping is probably about an hour. This is based on Carl's 600 cars per shift and on time to run to arrival yard and shove to the hump to start plus hump time at about 1 or 2 mph. At 2 feet per second and 60 foot long cars, you are pinning one evey 30 seconds which seems about right. 100 cars takes 50 minutes on the hump start to finish if all goes perfectly.
As Carl says dewll time in the bowl can be anything from zero to days. Average average is probably about 12 hours. Trim out is relatively quick but that bowl track must be locked out so no cars are humped into it during the triming. This is an operation, like most others to which it has been applied, that the Radio Controlled switcher has slowed down. The time here depends on how many cars and how many joints have to be made in the track. I would guess 30-45 minutes per cut and that might be quick. Next variable is how many cuts. Smaller cuts are easier to handle than big ones and the limit is very yard specific. It depends on power and grades. Most hump yards have a saucer profile so the cut has to be lifted out of the bowl. A four axle unit will start to have trouble around 4000 tons. Stopping with only the independent is even more exciting. The point is your train will likey have four or five cuts so it could take three hours just to gather up the cars and get them together on your departure track.
Time for outbound inspection is mirror image of inbound except here you are subject to having to throw a random bad order or two out of the train. Maybe 10% of trains and half hour average once you get the engine there. Wait for engine is highly variable. As part of outbound inspection carmen may or may not do air brake test before the road power ties on. If not, then there may be another delay waiting for carmen and at least an hour to do the air test. If you find a bad order during air test go back to throwing a bad order out.
Now you are ready to go. If the dispatcher is ready for you and if the lead is clear and if the conductor has made it to the train. Delay here, nothing to hours.
All in all the only reason they get cars through a hump yard in 24 hours or so is rhythm and practice. Because of practice everone does what needs to be done when it needs to be done. Unless it is cold, snowing, there is an accident, or you have a flock of newbees. I am sure Carl enjoys going home every night, presuming of course he has enough whiskers to hold a day job.
Carl said about 99% of what I could.
All I can add is this:
Paul_D_North_JrFrom a post on 03-03-2009, shows at 12:12 PM: CShaveRR SJ, we try to hump over 600 cars per shift. A lot of factors can reduce this figure, but we've also gotten close to 900 on a good day. If the receiving yard is light, we're switching cars that arrived and were inspected earlier in the shift (a couple of times recently, we had trains come in by 11:00 and they were over the hump by the time I left at 2:30--rare, but doable). North Platte has the advantage of having a pair of hump yards. [snip] Carl - If it isn't too much trouble sometime (and doesn't involve disclosing proprietary or otherwise sensitive information), I'd appreciate a "refresher" on the steps / activities/ operations/ processes - and approximate time frames for same - that a typical "loose car" would undergo as it progresses through your (or a typical) hump-type classificiation yard, along the lines of your response to Mookie (above). I know I've read such things in the standard references - such as John Armstrong's The Railroad: What It Is, What It Does, but that's dated, and I'd rather have the benefit of an actual,operator in the trenches" such as yourself. What I have in mind is something like the following: 1) Car arrives at Arrival Yard - from inbound local, terminating manifest, or block dropped-off by through train, etc. 2) Wait for Arrival Inspection: _ to _ hours. 3) Arrival inspection: _ hour 4) Wait for humping: _ to _ hours 5) Hump and sort: _ hours 6) Trim and consolidate in bowl tracks: _ to _ hours 7) Wait for pull to Departure Yard: _ to _ hours 8) Pull to Departure Yard: _ to _ hours 9) Wait for make-up into / for departing train or block of cars: _ to _ hours 10) Make-up as departing train or block, including departure inspection: _ to _ hours. 11) Wait for departing train/ block pick-up: _ to _ hours 12) Couple locomotives to cars, install FRED, initial terminal airbrake test, wait for departure clearance, etc.: _ to _ hours Of course, you should feel free to edit or modify this list as appropriate to provide a more accurate outline of how this goes. Ed Blysard, RWM, and anyone else can feel free to add in to this as you see fit, too, if you like. It might be interesting to see the differences. Thanks ! - Paul North.
From a post on 03-03-2009, shows at 12:12 PM:
CShaveRR SJ, we try to hump over 600 cars per shift. A lot of factors can reduce this figure, but we've also gotten close to 900 on a good day. If the receiving yard is light, we're switching cars that arrived and were inspected earlier in the shift (a couple of times recently, we had trains come in by 11:00 and they were over the hump by the time I left at 2:30--rare, but doable). North Platte has the advantage of having a pair of hump yards. [snip]
Carl -
If it isn't too much trouble sometime (and doesn't involve disclosing proprietary or otherwise sensitive information), I'd appreciate a "refresher" on the steps / activities/ operations/ processes - and approximate time frames for same - that a typical "loose car" would undergo as it progresses through your (or a typical) hump-type classificiation yard, along the lines of your response to Mookie (above). I know I've read such things in the standard references - such as John Armstrong's The Railroad: What It Is, What It Does, but that's dated, and I'd rather have the benefit of an actual,operator in the trenches" such as yourself. What I have in mind is something like the following:
1) Car arrives at Arrival Yard - from inbound local, terminating manifest, or block dropped-off by through train, etc.
2) Wait for Arrival Inspection: _ to _ hours.
3) Arrival inspection: _ hour
4) Wait for humping: _ to _ hours
5) Hump and sort: _ hours
6) Trim and consolidate in bowl tracks: _ to _ hours
7) Wait for pull to Departure Yard: _ to _ hours
8) Pull to Departure Yard: _ to _ hours
9) Wait for make-up into / for departing train or block of cars: _ to _ hours
10) Make-up as departing train or block, including departure inspection: _ to _ hours.
11) Wait for departing train/ block pick-up: _ to _ hours
12) Couple locomotives to cars, install FRED, initial terminal airbrake test, wait for departure clearance, etc.: _ to _ hours
Of course, you should feel free to edit or modify this list as appropriate to provide a more accurate outline of how this goes.
Ed Blysard, RWM, and anyone else can feel free to add in to this as you see fit, too, if you like. It might be interesting to see the differences.
Thanks !
Paul, I hate to disappoint you, but the numbers in those blanks would vary so widely for any number of reasons that any figures I'd quote would be meaningless. Besides, I'm in my own universe up there, and the only reason I can really figure out how long a train has been around before it gets humped is either that I look up a specific car that I'm curious about, or recognize the train as something I watched go past my window (or block me on the way to work). I don't know how long they budget for one team of car-knockers to inspect each car--and they can probably double-team a train if the receiving yard is light.
Humping the train also has a lot of variables: anything that I have to take into consideration--weather, rollability of the cars, rollability of the tracks, fullness of the tracks, availability of tracks or of space on the tracks, wind direction, the type of cars we're humping, eptitude of the conductor (to coin a phrase), or operator attentiveness--could all affect our operation. A sixty-car hump shove could pour over in about 20 minutes, or it could take more than an hour.
Once a car is classified (stipulation that it's not bad-ordered, misclassified, or otherwise diverted), it could sit in the bowl for anywhere from a few minutes to a day or more--lots more if the next outbound for that destination doesn't leave for a day or three. It used to take about a half hour for a pulldown crew to couple a track in the bowl, but that seems to take even longer nowadays. Doubling up the tracks prepares the train in block order, and they're either pulled directly to one departure yard, or pulled out and shoved back into the other one.
In the departure yard, the cars have to undergo inspection once more (this is where brake shoes get changed out if needed), and the possibility that bad-order cars have to be set out of one of these trains may add a bit of time to the process. If an air test has to be repeated, that could take a lot of time. A couple of trains that I notice take four to five hours from bowl-track lockup to departure, but I can't break that down further, nor comment on how typical that time is. The planned departure time of manifest trains is highly regarded, and events like bowl pulldowns, paperwork, crew and power availability, are all geared toward this time.
As necessarily vague as this has been, I hope it's helpful. I doubt that our yard is typical, mainly because we originate or terminate virtually anything that requires classification--even North Platte can't say that!
croteaudd Murphy Siding,March 9, 2009 11:22 a.m.:You are absolutely correct! However, it is unknown if you think this way or not, but I believe stockholders are only the Queen, whereas the "will of the people" is the King ...
Murphy Siding,March 9, 2009 11:22 a.m.:You are absolutely correct! However, it is unknown if you think this way or not, but I believe stockholders are only the Queen, whereas the "will of the people" is the King ...
And the white Queen is walking backwards..when .the men on the chessboard get up and tell you where to go.....go ask Alice, when she's 10 feet tall! I'm starting to see why your neighbor sometimes has trouble understanding what you mean.
Can we cut to the chase here, and quit playing word games?
You have proposed the following (if I understand what you're saying...): 1)That railroads should change the way they operate their yards/switching to move more freight faster. 2)That doing so, would make it possible for railroads to keep more people employed(?) 3)That railroads have almost willfully ignored a system to *fix* this problem, in order to preserve the status quo. and 4) That you are the person that has this valueable info to *fix* it all, but no one will/would listen to you.
Am I on the right track so far? I would contend that the railroads are doing all they can to improve their systems. You suggest that nobody is listening to what you have to say. Here's your chance. You say you have a way to *fix* it all. Let's hear it. If it is as good an idea as you say it is, surely it can withstand a little bit of questioning and opinions on a railfan forum. If you can't, or won't share it, I'll presume that you just like playing games with words, and we'll leave it at that.
The ball is your court. What do you have to say?
PNWRMNM So, apparently, has croteaudd. I still have no idea how he is going to sort cars more quickly than conventional techniques, nor what it will cost, nor the benefits. Mac
So, apparently, has croteaudd. I still have no idea how he is going to sort cars more quickly than conventional techniques, nor what it will cost, nor the benefits.
He is like so many of the "NEW" high speed rail advocates. He sees the promise of fuel efficiencies, green technologies and adds a dash of put the workers to work in a down economy in an attempt to cook up something new. Problem is he has n't let it cook on the right setting long enough for it to be edible...
Paul_D_North_Jr But it's different now. So if you do have a revolutionary new technology for car sorting, the intellectual ground for adopting it in the railroad industry is much more fertile today, than it was barren back then. I encourage you to actually market and introduce it, instead of just posting about it here. - Paul North
But it's different now. So if you do have a revolutionary new technology for car sorting, the intellectual ground for adopting it in the railroad industry is much more fertile today, than it was barren back then. I encourage you to actually market and introduce it, instead of just posting about it here.
- Paul North
Johnny
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