Probably more NS bull, but I thought I'd share anyway.
http://www.tryondailybulletin.com/2011/12/28/norfolk-southern-denies-tryon-streetscape-railroad-encroachment/
A quote from the article:
“We have received the application that you sent in on behalf of the town of Tryon to request right of entry into railroad property,” said Norfolk Southern’s Matthew Jones to Hembree. “The attached application requests permission to enter railroad right of way for the purposes of surveying rail property related to a parking improvement project. I am familiar with the project and have discussed the proposal with our Strategic Development department. We have determined that at this time we do not wish to allow further encroachment in the area. This line will be reactivated at some point and it is important that we maintain minimum safety clearances in compliance with FRA regulation. If you have any questions please let me know and I will be glad to talk with you.”
NS may not be planning to re-activate this line but I can't blame them for preventing encroachments onto the right-of-way. NS and the State of North Carolina have run into encroachments elsewhere and they are probably trying to avoid setting precedents at this location.
The right of way is the railraods' birth right. Smart managements guard it like the precious gem it is. Long established encroachments are expensive and time consuming to clear. Best to get them gone the minute they are requested or apperar.
Mac McCulloch
"IF" it was to ever be turned into a biking path it would be one of the most challenging with its 4% grade.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Wow....The word surfaces once again...I'll keep watching. I've tried several times in our travels to see action on that "hill", and never have been successful. Waiting as long as 4hrs. plus...
Can't wait too much longer or we'll not be able to make the trip...hmmm.
Can always hope.
4% grade is a grade, but possible with a bicycle. Trouble is though, that's a rather long grade.
Quentin
The October 1917 issue of Popular Science Monthly (available on Google Books) has a half page article on a Southern Railway experimental locomotive.In order to get more tractive effort, the tender trucks on Mikado 4537 were replaced by the running gear from a scrapped Consolidation. I kind of wonder if the combination would have the Triplex disease, i.e. not enough draft to keep up steam.
The article said that drawbar pull was increased from 46,000 lbs to 64,000 lbs. The article mentioned that 6 other locomotives had been modified.
- Erik
Railroads have learned some painful lessons by abandoning rail lines no matter how long they have been idle. With all the regulations and the environmental rules in the last 10 years, building a new rail line through some mountains would be next to impossible anymore. Any railroad that abandons it's lines especially through the mountains is cutting its own throat.
When railroads start getting heat about abandon rail lines they will typically start running a single locomotive or a locomotive with a few cars up and down the line at least once a year. If you run a locomotive or even a Hi rail up and down the line at least once a year it keeps the courts off your back.
Yes, remember what it tok BMSF to get permission to double track Abo Canyon even though they woned the right of way. The enviromentalist screamed blody blue murder. I do not remember how many years it took,butthey finally got permission and completed the project.
I believe the Saluda route is severed perhaps at both ends....{but just by removing or moving one rail} so no movement by railroad engines or rail cars would be possible. Even a mound of dirt at the same spot I believe too.
But....one would think a hi railer could move over the Saluda section if doing so takes care of a technicality. Believe street crossings are paved over and signals out of operation as well.
And......if the Kudzu has not made the rails non usable by now....
[quote user="gsrrman"]
"...Yes, remember what it tok BMSF to get permission to double track Abo Canyon even though they woned the right of way. The enviromentalist screamed blody blue murder. I do not remember how many years it took,butthey finally got permission and completed the project..."
[/quote]
gsrrman:
http://www.bnsf.com/employees/communications/railway-magazine/pdf/200812.pdf
The above link is to the 2008 Fall/edition of the BNSF employee magazine. I contains an article[ starts on p.5] It references the start of construction of the Double Tracking Project in ABO Canyon (length of D/T is 4.5 miles). The article seems to only mention that it is to be completed in two years ( actually was completed about June 2011) cost was at one point to be $80 Million.)
If you Google Abo Canyon/Double Tracking you'll get a number of site, plus You Tube video's of the Project.
The Canyon Physically was in an area that was in the domain of the US Army Corps of Engineers, so the process was most likely painfully slow as the BNSF's Engineering accomplished each of many process steps to get to the approval to go ahead to start and finish the Project.
Most readers of TRAINS are aware of the problems thrown up by enviromentalists and neighbors & (ranchers?) locals in the area. You could probably guess the process and steps towards the Final permission to do the Project was painfully slow and expensive. Based on the ARR's Project to extend the railroad in Alaska to the Port ( it took a couple of decades) .
I'd bet the lead time on this project was much longer what with the actual surveys, and engineering,and then the various Enviromental impact issues to be resolved and negotiated, the total time was in many more than just 'several years'.
Saluda Grade, similarly is an operational nightmare for the railroad (NS). Currently it is just in sort of a 'limbo'. Poster here have stated that the line has been isolated by cutting the rails, and limiting access or eliminating trains on the route. It may still be accessible to Hi-Rail trucks for inspection ( and fulfilling legal issues surrounding it's status as 'rail banked' or simply temporarily unused.)
NS has rail-banked some other corridors in its network until the activation became advantageous to them to bring it back into their system. Until Saluda can be worked into their system as a necessary corridor, NS will keep it around and not abandoned by what ever means it takes.
I'd love to see them make some passes over it with their new steam program(?) ! Maybe wishful thinking, but sure would be interesting.
Yes, that would be interesting. Steam on Saluda again. Of course that then removes the added safety of "dynamic braking".....And with passengers....!
Of course a modern diesel / electric could be added for supplying that service....and help going up too, if needed.
The FUN - would be steam WORKING up the grade.
Coming down would not be fun for anyone.
Modelcar Yes, that would be interesting. Steam on Saluda again. Of course that then removes the added safety of "dynamic braking".....And with passengers....! Of course a modern diesel / electric could be added for supplying that service....and help going up too, if needed.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
dubch87 High-resolution (6-inch pixels/1:200) orthoimagery that was acquired in early 2010 will be available in the next few months. This will finally allow a good aerial inspection of the washout from the comfort of my chair.
High-resolution (6-inch pixels/1:200) orthoimagery that was acquired in early 2010 will be available in the next few months. This will finally allow a good aerial inspection of the washout from the comfort of my chair.
A quick map of the location of the washout:
http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg
dubch87 dubch87: High-resolution (6-inch pixels/1:200) orthoimagery that was acquired in early 2010 will be available in the next few months. This will finally allow a good aerial inspection of the washout from the comfort of my chair. A quick map of the location of the washout: http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg
dubch87: High-resolution (6-inch pixels/1:200) orthoimagery that was acquired in early 2010 will be available in the next few months. This will finally allow a good aerial inspection of the washout from the comfort of my chair.
.....Dubch84:
Didn't you post some excellent photos of the washout back several years ago.....I still have those in my favorites. They really showed the massive washout.
Amazing - the resemblence to a Red X
dubch87 A quick map of the location of the washout: http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg
Modelcar Didn't you post some excellent photos of the washout back several years ago.....I still have those in my favorites. They really showed the massive washout.
I did, but I don't take credit for them. Those photos were shared through e-mail.
BaltACD Amazing - the resemblence to a Red X dubch87: A quick map of the location of the washout: http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg
dubch87: A quick map of the location of the washout: http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg
The image opens in Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox, but not Internet Explorer?
.....No, not in IE.....Red star only.
Observation of the picture via Firefox - looks like a day or two with a work train with some rip-rap and ballast would have the track back in service if it were needed.....if they wanted to prevent the washout in the future installing a large culvert would take a day or two longer and eliminate the problem.
dubch87 Modelcar: Didn't you post some excellent photos of the washout back several years ago.....I still have those in my favorites. They really showed the massive washout. I did, but I don't take credit for them. Those photos were shared through e-mail. BaltACD: Amazing - the resemblence to a Red X dubch87: A quick map of the location of the washout: http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg The image opens in Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox, but not Internet Explorer?
Modelcar: Didn't you post some excellent photos of the washout back several years ago.....I still have those in my favorites. They really showed the massive washout.
BaltACD: Amazing - the resemblence to a Red X dubch87: A quick map of the location of the washout: http://v4.cache5.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/64198221.jpg
Here is a new (hopefully working) link with a few updates to the map:
https://sites.google.com/site/thesaludagrade/_/rsrc/1325458563314/home/washout.png
....From the photos of the wash out taken right on the spot....{pickup truck and all}, I believe it will require more work than a day or two....It is a serious wash out. The track is hanging in mid air.
A work train couldn't even get to, and over the spot to begin to fill back in....It's a big wash out...!
We were in a meeting and were told that N>S will be opening the grade, that there are timber and repair crews getting ready... The gist of it was that there will be large amounts of coal from China going through our towns... save our mountains, destroy their mao-tains ? hmmm... welll, that is the news, from Tryon NC,
Tryonian - Welcome to Trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
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Tryonian We were in a meeting and were told that N.S. will be opening the grade, that there are timber and repair crews getting ready... The gist of it was that there will be large amounts of coal from China going through our towns... save our mountains, destroy their mao-tains ? hmmm... welll, that is the news, from Tryon NC,
We were in a meeting and were told that N.S. will be opening the grade, that there are timber and repair crews getting ready...
The gist of it was that there will be large amounts of coal from China going through our towns... save our mountains, destroy their mao-tains ? hmmm... welll, that is the news, from Tryon NC,
First paragaraph is pretty interesting news!
I (and some others around here) Would be curious as to Who from NS was breaking that news? [My attempt to separate rumor from actual reality.]
Second is a bit more troubling...
Was this the reaction of the local crowd to the news of the 'reopening' of the Saluda Grade?
I've got to make a trip to NE Georgia this Spring for a wedding, and probably a side trip to Salisbury, NC. A pass at the area of the Saluda Grade, or the 'Loops' and seeing some trains over it (Saluda) would be a bonus.
Thanks, 'TRYONIAN' for sharing that info around here
....Every once in a while this kind of news {not quite this possitive}, comes along....I sure would like to experience witnessing action on that "Hill"....We'll keep hoping.
Exporting coal to China is a reality....A new unit train back in my home area {Somerset, Co., Pa.}, has been running now for a year or so after about 8 years no action on that mine loading area / CSX branch. And I understand that is for export.
We'll certainly be watching for indications on Saluda....I'm sure if that would become a reality, lots of work would have to be accomplished to bring the line back to good condition for operation.
I wonder about that landslide near Saluda....It certainly will require work if it's not been repaired, and I doubt if it has been.
Tryonian We were in a meeting and were told that N>S will be opening the grade
We were in a meeting and were told that N>S will be opening the grade
Coal FROM China?!? There's a twist.
But if it's true, I wonder how many times the trains will have to be split to make it up the grade.....
Getting trains up the grade is a exciting show for the railfan.
Getting trains down the grade is a terrifying reality for the engineer.
zardoz Might I ask, who is "we"? Coal FROM China?!? There's a twist. But if it's true, I wonder how many times the trains will have to be split to make it up the grade.....
......Surely that statement of "coal from China", is actually coal to China...We are exporting coal.
I've tried several times back roughly a decade {right before shutdown}, when coming back from Florida....to see action on that "Hill", but was never successful. Waiting and waiting for up to 4 hrs...
And I too respectfully, would like to know a bit about "we"....Like to believe it really has come from a good source.
Item: If it is true....they better start {now}, hacking on the Kudzu...
I'm not really trying to be all mysterious, just trying to find out more about what I heard at our Tryon town design meeting, and noticed that I seem to have a bit of info, only not verified...
I am not a reporter, but, I will continue to look into it... and will post more substantiated info as soon as I can. We were told that Norfolk Southern should be the one to broadcast the news, and, seeing as I don't know anyone in NS I have to just go down the tracks to see for myself if there are any signs of activity...
I know I was disappointed when I moved here a few years ago to hear that the trains had stopped flowing...
but, I am also sort of wishing we didn't have to mine our , or other folk's mountains to feed our industrious nature... I know we export coal, but, we were told by the tourism town manager Cris Armbrust that we would be seeing, hearing trains full of chin ese coal sooner or later (from what I hear, later)
as far as the local business owner's response, they were mixed, because, coal leaves a lot of dust... and it causes acid rain... We all agreed we would MUCH rather have a passenger rail
I think most people like the sound of the train, I know I do... but, a lot of folks are also going to be annoyed by it. I hope it sounds like this : ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2no5kd21Z1A
Tryonian I'm not really trying to be all mysterious, just trying to find out more about what I heard at our Tryon town design meeting, and noticed that I seem to have a bit of info, only not verified... I am not a reporter, but, I will continue to look into it... and will post more substantiated info as soon as I can. We were told that Norfolk Southern should be the one to broadcast the news, and, seeing as I don't know anyone in NS I have to just go down the tracks to see for myself if there are any signs of activity... I know I was disappointed when I moved here a few years ago to hear that the trains had stopped flowing... but, I am also sort of wishing we didn't have to mine our , or other folk's mountains to feed our industrious nature... I know we export coal, but, we were told by the tourism town manager Cris Armbrust that we would be seeing, hearing trains full of chin ese coal sooner or later (from what I hear, later) as far as the local business owner's response, they were mixed, because, coal leaves a lot of dust... and it causes acid rain... We all agreed we would MUCH rather have a passenger rail I think most people like the sound of the train, I know I do... but, a lot of folks are also going to be annoyed by it. I hope it sounds like this : ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2no5kd21Z1A
I think most people like the sound of the train, I know I do... but, a lot of folks are also going to be annoyed by it. I hope it sounds like this : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2no5kd21Z1A
TRYONIAN:
Please do not mistake our 'skepticism' for an effort to beat you down. The Grade at Saluda is a topic of interest around these Forums for some time. It goes back to Threads that have been posted for years.
So we welcome your interest and are grateful to have your eye and ears as a source of information so close to SALUDA. we only seem to get bits and pieces of information, sketchy at best, but at times our hopes are raised by information such as you posted.
Several Posters here have ties in the area and travel though that area hopeful of seeing activity on Saluda, as well. Jim Wrinn, TRAINS editor, is from North Carolina, and TRAINS has carried some articles on the 'Loops' and the NC Transportation Museum at Spencer. So you can see why we ask the questions we do, referencing Saluda, and what is happening around those hils and hollows.
Thanks, Tryonian, for posting and hope you continue to stop in and contribute around here!
Tryonian.....Please accept my thoughts just as Sam has related them on his post.
We're hanging our hat on each scrap of info re: Will Saluda ever be put to use again.
We appreciate you're input...Please accept it as that.
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