Nothing has been filed with the STB... yet.
Hope this trails group is "with-it", can prove it is a responsible party and has financial integrity.
BackshopUh, they were making a joke about Saluda after it becomes a bike trail...
You know, those old wheel generator driven headlights...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I had one of those on my Schwinn Stingray when I was a kid...50+ years ago. Damn, I'm old!
Ulrich I'm no expert, but terminal outgassing sounds like something to avoided..
I'm no expert, but terminal outgassing sounds like something to avoided..
Time for you to edit your title.!!!
Technically it will reopen. As a trail.
See also:
Breaking news: Agreement reached with Norfolk Southern (mailchi.mp)
Isn't going to happen anytime soon - NS has yet to file anything on the Saluda abandonment this year....Something else going on in the background?
They have only agreed to sell. The non-profits are still raising the public and private funds needed for the undisclosed purchase amount. NS will abandon after the check clears.
tree68You know, those old wheel generator driven headlights...
I had one of those generators on the rear tire of my Raleigh 3-speed in 1963. Mine was made by England's Lucas Electric, "the man who invented darkness," as we BSA & Triumph owners used to say.
railfanjohnIs it a “Done Deal” now? See attached link: https://www.saludagradetrail.org/saluda-grade-news/saluda-grade-trail-corridor-under-contract Perhaps someone on here (mudchicken?) can explain a few things. Has the rail line EVER been abandoned? (not to my knowledge). Can a railroad sell its Right-of-Way to a non-railroad entity? What are the rules / regulations concerning this? Is the STB involved with this transaction? Does Norfolk Southern even own (clear title) the Right-of-Way here? I have been told by some folks that these trail groups have “bitten off more than they can chew” and that they have no actual idea of what they are getting into! Please pay special attention to the next to last paragraph in the attached story. Now they want to run excursion / tourist trains??? Alongside the trail??? Also from the article: “Cliff Garner, of Norfolk Southern AVP Real Estate & Facility Services, says, “At Norfolk Southern, we’re committed to helping the communities our rail network touches thrive”.” So why do you keep abandoning facilities (those taxes disappear – how does that help the community ‘thrive’?) in those communities your rail network touches? [actually, it won’t be touching ANY of these communities because the rails will be gone!]
Railroad rights of way were obtained through most every form of real estate conveyance that has ever been thought of or designed by man. From outright ownership by the railroad to myriad of leases wherein it states if there are no tracks that the land then reverts to the owner that granted the lease, way back when. And everything in between. A Real Estate Lawyer and Title Lawyer's version of lifetime employment.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD railfanjohn Is it a “Done Deal” now? See attached link: https://www.saludagradetrail.org/saluda-grade-news/saluda-grade-trail-corridor-under-contract Perhaps someone on here (mudchicken?) can explain a few things. Has the rail line EVER been abandoned? (not to my knowledge). Can a railroad sell its Right-of-Way to a non-railroad entity? What are the rules / regulations concerning this? Is the STB involved with this transaction? Does Norfolk Southern even own (clear title) the Right-of-Way here? I have been told by some folks that these trail groups have “bitten off more than they can chew” and that they have no actual idea of what they are getting into! Please pay special attention to the next to last paragraph in the attached story. Now they want to run excursion / tourist trains??? Alongside the trail??? Also from the article: “Cliff Garner, of Norfolk Southern AVP Real Estate & Facility Services, says, “At Norfolk Southern, we’re committed to helping the communities our rail network touches thrive”.” So why do you keep abandoning facilities (those taxes disappear – how does that help the community ‘thrive’?) in those communities your rail network touches? [actually, it won’t be touching ANY of these communities because the rails will be gone!] Railroad rights of way were obtained through most every form of real estate conveyance that has ever been thought of or designed by man. From outright ownership by the railroad to myriad of leases wherein it states if there are no tracks that the land then reverts to the owner that granted the lease, way back when. And everything in between. A Real Estate Lawyer and Title Lawyer's version of lifetime employment.
railfanjohn Is it a “Done Deal” now? See attached link: https://www.saludagradetrail.org/saluda-grade-news/saluda-grade-trail-corridor-under-contract Perhaps someone on here (mudchicken?) can explain a few things. Has the rail line EVER been abandoned? (not to my knowledge). Can a railroad sell its Right-of-Way to a non-railroad entity? What are the rules / regulations concerning this? Is the STB involved with this transaction? Does Norfolk Southern even own (clear title) the Right-of-Way here? I have been told by some folks that these trail groups have “bitten off more than they can chew” and that they have no actual idea of what they are getting into! Please pay special attention to the next to last paragraph in the attached story. Now they want to run excursion / tourist trains??? Alongside the trail??? Also from the article: “Cliff Garner, of Norfolk Southern AVP Real Estate & Facility Services, says, “At Norfolk Southern, we’re committed to helping the communities our rail network touches thrive”.” So why do you keep abandoning facilities (those taxes disappear – how does that help the community ‘thrive’?) in those communities your rail network touches? [actually, it won’t be touching ANY of these communities because the rails will be gone!]
And I would think this particular case might be one that takes a lifetime to sort out.
As of today 8/12/24 ... No filing, no new AB- Docket ... No NITU
For all the noise, the start of the abandonment or rails-to-trails process is not there.
Concerns about the trails group being financially responsible? (STB vetting process throwing a major monkey wrench into the process... Kills the NITU needed for the conventional rail-trail process) ... hard enough to chase down the current discontinuance of service
mudchicken As of today 8/12/24 ... No filing, no new AB- Docket ... No NITU For all the noise, the start of the abandonment or rails-to-trails process is not there. Concerns about the trails group being financially responsible? (STB vetting process throwing a major monkey wrench into the process... Kills the NITU needed for the conventional rail-trail process) ... hard enough to chase down the current discontinuance of service
"NITU" stands for what?
It sounds like you are saying NO abandonment process has begun; therefore no rails-to-trails process CAN begin either. Also makes me think Norfolk Southern is doing something (selling the right-of-way) that they don't yet have authority to do.
As for discontinuance of service; I think that dates back to 2001.
NITU = Notice of Interim Trail Use. Federal Statute term saying all the requirements for abandonment to trail conversion have been made. No NITU and you have no federally protected rail trail (which keeps any title with reversionary clauses or rights from happening/ kicking-in)
CITU = Certificate of Rail Use implies the negotiations are still continuing to get things to NITU status is in progress. You have a year to get things to NITU status or abandonment kicks-in and there is no rail trail, anything that reverts happens and anything the railroad owns in fee can be sold off piecemeal.
There is a growing scandal out there where people are claiming rails to trails (R-T-T) and it isn't the case (aware recently of two cases in Illinois, one in Ohio and one Florida where the R-T-T claim is fraudulent after doing due-dilligence and discovering that the NITU never happened)...Wish the STB would be pro-active and keep track of what's been going-on since 1983 with a current list of what has been granted NITU status. This would certainly help surveyors, title people and local government get it right. (dumber-than-a-post title people are frequently too lazy or cheap to spend the time and effort to get it right -creates all kinds of future headaches and shuts-up the NARPO nutcases)
NS can sell the R/W (required for NITU) but they still could operate trains and maintain track until the NITU officially kicks in.
Way to many people out there who are claiming R-T-T without understanding all the facts contained in the statutes and STB/ICC rulemaking.
mudchicken NITU = Notice of Interim Trail Use. Federal Statute term saying all the requirements for abandonment to trail conversion have been made. No NITU and you have no federally protected rail trail (which keeps any title with reversionary clauses or rights from happening/ kicking-in) CITU = Certificate of Rail Use implies the negotiations are still continuing to get things to NITU status is in progress. You have a year to get things to NITU status or abandonment kicks-in and there is no rail trail, anything that reverts happens and anything the railroad owns in fee can be sold off piecemeal. There is a growing scandal out there where people are claiming rails to trails (R-T-T) and it isn't the case (aware recently of two cases in Illinois, one in Ohio and one Florida where the R-T-T claim is fraudulent after doing due-dilligence and discovering that the NITU never happened)...Wish the STB would be pro-active and keep track of what's been going-on since 1983 with a current list of what has been granted NITU status. This would certainly help surveyors, title people and local government get it right. (dumber-than-a-post title people are frequently too lazy or cheap to spend the time and effort to get it right -creates all kinds of future headaches and shuts-up the NARPO nutcases) NS can sell the R/W (required for NITU) but they still could operate trains and maintain track until the NITU officially kicks in. Way to many people out there who are claiming R-T-T without understanding all the facts contained in the statutes and STB/ICC rulemaking.
Thanks mudchicken for your explanations!
Does anyone know what was discussed at the 'hearing' on the 6th -- or plans to attend the one tonight, in Inman at 6pm?
https://www.saludagradetrail.org/saluda-grade-news/presentations-will-share-saluda-grade-trail-study
Note the mention of TPD, Inc. which presumably understands the timetable and requirements of securing the necessary NITU. (The notice mentions a 'one-year timeframe'...)
I have not seen any dollar amount or 'hard' source of proposed financing.
Every time this thread pops up and I see that title my heart skips a beat thinking for a second or two that it might actually be reopened. Then I read the latest posts...
Considering the flood damage the Helene inflicted on the overall area of the Saluda grade - how bad was the line damaged, making it even harder and more expensive to be trailed.
BaltACD Considering the flood damage the Helene inflicted on the overall area of the Saluda grade - how bad was the line damaged, making it even harder and more expensive to be trailed.
Not sure about damage to the "grade" portion of this line. Town of Hendersonville, NC - just a few miles west of Saluda - suffered heavy damage. Have seen photos of extensive damage to Norfolk Southern's 'S' line, mostly west of Asheville along the French Broad River. Asheville yard was completely under water a week ago.
Saw a TV news report with a local whose dwelling was destroyed by flash flood waters and was quoted as saying 'Why should I get Flood Insurance, we live in the mountains?' Duh, mountains create valleys where rivers drain the land and that drainage is easily overwhelmed by rains from severe afternoon thunderstorms or a tropical stom putting down inches to a foot of rain in a relatively short period of time.
Rivers in the mountains are what Flash Floods are all about.
Anyplace you see valleys with steep sides, you will also see flash flooding. That's how the valleys got formed in the first place.
I was impressed by the results of the heavy rainfall/snowmelt around Yellowstone two years ago. Saw where one bridge used to be with clean breaks in the concrete footings used to be.
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