Today, I was caught by a Northbound (Eastbounfd?) general merchandise freight in Derby,Ks. Looked to be about + - 90 cars. Power was two B-B locomotives- one in SF Blue/Yellow, and the other was in one of those worn orange/green/yellow schemes. This location is on part of the BNSF Transcon, south of Wichita.Generally, the trains are 6 axle units leading followed by a mixed plethora of units following (mostly 6 axle).
My question is, "How are the engineers' pay figured?
I was told some time back by an engineer on the Illinois Central; his pay was a calculation that considered, number of axles on the power, and the gross weight of the train
. Is this the case still still? Is each railroad;s engineer pay different? Can an engineer turn down anassignment if the power assigned ( four axle units instead of six axle units) efffects the pay for a trip?
Thanks
No. Hahaha.
Depends what railroad. Combination of miles run and hours worked and some other factors.
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Our guys get paid by the weight on the drivers...which of course on a diesel electric is all the wheels in most cases, the total weight of the locomotive...our local agreement does not include miles, just the weight.
A lot depends on the local agreement, most include weight on drivers, miles, some include the number of locomotives, so forth and so on.
23 17 46 11
I am paid by wieght on drivers milage and number of engines, BUT what determines the amount of pay is the lead unit. this is the unit that starts the formula. so most engineers will have the conductor put the biggest unit in train down as lead unit so you get the most pay its legal. on the ns we have went to the trip rate in which the railroad took the best 3 month period for them and averaged out the initial terminal final terminal delay and a few other things and then the trip ( basic day) then overtime will be added later.what this did was make it easy to know what you will make in a half with out fighting for it
We get paid a daily rate. Pays the same if you work 7 hours or 12. We gotta go. Don't want to be cutting into the quit. If you average over 10 hours a day for the half, they kick in a bit of overtime.
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Anything over 8 hours is ot for us.
I am payed a trip rate, weight on drivers and also certificaton pay that is going to the away from home terminal on the return trip I get a trip rate, weight on drivers, certification pay and beans.
Rodney
Thank you all for the responses. I knew it would not be a simple subject.
I do now remember that the lead units weight was a factor in the formula that had been originally explained to me. As someone who has been interested in things railroad related, this is one topic that seems to have so many components as to be mysterious to one who does not have to deal with it on an everyday basis. Many of us who have read about the history of railroads and their operations, have that work formula for the old 100 miles a day rule, almost inculcated into our thinking. Now a days with the current speeds that one hundred miles seems miniscule by comparison. One would expect that the union rules would be fairly uniform across the spectrum, but that certainly does not seem to be the case. It seems to be the case that the rules for pay are adaptable to local situations, and creatively applied to specific operational needs. Although, in my own case when people who were responsible for fixing pay rates and schedules began to talk about "WIN,WIN sdituations for the employee and the company." Personally, at that point, I'd draw up waiting for the ram.
Which is apparently why the Unions play the roll of negotiating mediator between Companies and Labor. The specialized knowledge required to cope with various local circumstances of operations, does need understanding and abilities to negotiate with other professionals.
This seems way to complicated to me as an outsider.
What would be the pay difference between a smaller/lighter and a larger/heaver mainline train? 5% ? 10% ?
I guess that most of the pay is by miles/hours and position/certification.
As I had mentioned then I had been told by an individual engineer I knew how his pay was compiled. He responded essentially; it started with weight on the locomotive 'drivers', and followed a prescribed formula.
As his regular assigned run was a unit grain train, his pay was pretty good.
Ed Blysard, responded with how PTRA (in Houston, Tx paid their guys) weight on drivers, etc.
"Our guys get paid by the weight on the drivers...which of course on a diesel electric is all the wheels in most cases, the total weight of the locomotive...our local agreement does not include miles, just the weight.
A lot depends on the local agreement, most include weight on drivers, miles, some include the number of locomotives, so forth and so on."
Wabash1 also responded;
"...I am paid by weight on drivers mileage and number of engines, BUT what determines the amount of pay is the lead unit. this is the unit that starts the formula. so most engineers will have the conductor put the biggest unit in train down as lead unit so you get the most pay its legal. on the ns we have went to the trip rate in which the railroad took the best 3 month period for them and averaged out the initial terminal final terminal delay and a few other things and then the trip ( basic day) then overtime will be added later.what this did was make it easy to know what you will make in a half with out fighting for it..."
Since the original question was asked in 2008.
10,000ft plus trains seem to be a normal consist here on BNSF's Southern Transcon, and my guess is there is no extra pay for the longer train beyond its effect on total trailing tonnage(?)
DPU operations- are the extra locomotives considered part of the total trailing tonnage? Or are they (DPU's) added to the total locomotives under the engineer's control?
Is the total trailing tonnage figured on the weight of the consist of the train plus the weight of the locomotive('s) or just the weight of the locomotive by itself/? Do the DPU's figure into the weight calculation, at all?
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I also found this THREAD from 2006 referencing a contemplated "work action" by engineers who were trying to get their pay structure changed :
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/77457/927137.aspx#927137
"Re: BLE job action and hourly pay for engineers"
one of the replies was by 'zapp' who wrote:
"A basic day is 130 miles. Before I came on orders I was making $148.00 a day, now that's when I was not called to run a train. I was working Ft Worth to McAlester, OK. The run pays a trip rate of $237.00 a trip (one way). Most of the runs are all on trip rates.
A deadhead also pays a trip rate. That's why we kill each other to get into a van!
Yard jobs, TSE's and Local's pay by the hour/ mileage, and that's why you see those guy's that are older then dirt behind the throttle!"
"I simplified it but that's kinda the' way it goes, and it changes drastically from local to local".
The last part would seem to be the most telling--the statement where he(Zapp) indicates that the "RULES" would change Local to Local, and I would assume, railroad to railroad. All afunction how well the Union leadership negotiated for a specific local?
Is this still the case? Thanks!
that's interesting..I didn't know that the number of locomotives and the weight on the drivers affect the engineer's pay. So often these days one sees single locomotive trains, much like back in the days of steam. That must really not go over too well with engineers though... a single ES4400CW instead of a couple of smaller units? Around here a single modern GE or EMD and 80 to 100 containers is the norm...and seeing one of those struggling up grade out of Toronto is quite the spectacle...anyone who has ever stood at trackside at Guelph Junction knows what I'm talking about...
I'm an engineer with CN, working under the BC Rail collective agreement. I get paid by the hour, with a basic day of 8 hours. Most trips to Lillooet and back are 10 hrs each way. I get to claim extra if I have more than 3 locomotives on my train, I also get extra if I have remotes on my train, but we don't run DPU on this end of the BCR anymore, I also get extra if I have a trainee. CN engineers on the mainline who work under the canadian collective agreement are paid by the mile, with a basic day being 100 miles. They also get extra for cleaning and servicing the locomotives, multiple units(they can only claim a max of 3 units though), a train over 9000 ft, hostling power, mu'ing power, picking up or setting out power on line, and in the yard they get extra for a conductor-only transfer job.
Before the trip rates started, when engineers were paid by mileage and weight on drivers, the total consist of power was what figured into weight on drivers. The lead unit had no bearing on it, not in my part of the railroad world, anyway, or any part I was ever familiar with.
Trip rates took into account average pay based on mileage, weight on drivers, initial and final terminal delay for those who were stil collecting it, and other various agreements, such as runarounds collected when run around within a terminal. It took those averages and consolidated them. Most thought they would lose money but I took a year of time and I couldn't beat the average with the average amount of money I had made per trip over the course of a year.
For a road job: miles, over miles, no fireman, meal period, certification, and hourly (anything of 9 hours).
Are Trip Rates a part of the BLE National Agreement or are they a part of the various local agreements?
Trip rates are in effect on my carrier.
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