Off Topic - Why do americans need such big cars???

[jchnhtfd]

PS -- I might add that the superior efficiency of the hybrid vehicles does not come through some kind of magic: it is because of the regenerative braking which can be used (the batteries are recharged when the car is slowing or braking) instead of dissipating all the energy as heat in the brakes...

[Modelcar]

....Yes, of course MPG stands for miles per gallon.....and in above post on variables in achieving fuel mileage. Fuel consumption is very much influenced by the driver. Some people can accomplish a drive with smooth moderate start ups and steady driving, etc...and another driver will consume much more fuel in same type of vehicle by his habit of foot heavy into the throttle in start ups and in his on throttle off throttle driving over the road using much more fuel than first driver. [8D]

[CBQ_Guy]

It's a guy thing!

[TH&B]

Jamie; you're right about that weight of vehicle is a major factor in fuel economy, and so is wind drag at higher speeds. But the thing is a Bavarian BMW is NOT the same as a BMW over here (USA), many BMW's here are made in Mexico, the ones that are imported from Germany are made to American specs, including the motor. The Bavarian Beamers are slightly more efficient, so unless you have a BMW built in Germany that wasn't intended to go to the USA then it's not the same.

[Anonymous]

I WANT ONE OF THOSE KW'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[M636C]

Supermicha

Using the following factors:

1 kilometre = 0.621 miles

1 US gallon = 3.79 litres

Your car gets 33.62 miles per US gallon.(which is good, but not amazing!)

A 150HP car getting 10litres/100km will get 23.5 miles per US gallon

My Australian car gets 10 litres/100 km, but we tend to think of gallons as having 4.54 litres (A British or perhaps "Imperial" gallon) so we like to say "28 miles per gallon" . All the English readers will understand this!

When Australia converted to Metric units (more formally "SI" for "Systeme Internationale") in 1973, the old system was invariably called "Imperial", which didn't go down well in the USA when I called it that. But there were enough differences from the US system for it to have a separate name.

Another point is the octane rating of the fuel. Is 95 octane the basic fuel in Germany, or is that a premium fuel? Most of the discussion here probably refers to 87 octane, if my recollection of Modelcar's postings is correct. So you have to make some adjustment for the additional energy value of 95 octane, because fuel consumption with higher octane fuel is reduced compared to lower octane fuel.

The weight of a car is important in fuel consumption, and so is frontal area and streamlining, sometimes measured as a coefficient, Cx, with a rectangular block being equal to 1.

But the power to weight ratio is important, and often a car with say a 3 litre V-6 engine will return better fuel consumption in the real world compared to the same car with a 2 litre 4 cylinder, depending on the relative loading experienced by the engines.

In dynamometer tests, of course with the car standing still inside a building, the smaller engine will always be more economical. Some government tests are carried out on dynamometers, and should be treated with scepticism until real road tests confirm (or not) the result.

Peter

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

Jamie; you're right about that weight of vehicle is a major factor in fuel economy, and so is wind drag at higher speeds. But the thing is a Bavarian BMW is NOT the same as a BMW over here (USA), many BMW's here are made in Mexico, the ones that are imported from Germany are made to American specs, including the motor. The Bavarian Beamers are slightly more efficient, so unless you have a BMW built in Germany that wasn't intended to go to the USA then it's not the same.

True, oh sage, on the Bavarian Beemers... and the build quality you can get here isn't quite as good. On the other hand, where I live, premium gas (which they both seem to need) costs... mucho bucks. When you can find it. Whereas my rat motored truck is perfectly happy on the 87[:D].

I deliberately left out driver habits when talking about fuel economy... and modelcar, you are so right! A lead-foot can eat twice the gas of a smoothie, regardless of what he's driving. As well as terrorizing the rest of us...[:)]

[Anonymous]

Six months ago in America unleaded gas 87 octane was cheaper than diesel, but that is not the case today.... diesel is around 10 cents cheaper today...

As for Iraq, like I said above, we are not short of oil, there is plenty of oil to last decades....the problem is that we are running our refineries at capacity. The reason why there aren't any refineries under construction is the simple fact that we need several, not one.... West coast oil is thicker than Sweet Texas Intermediate, and Persian Gulf oil is even thinner....Different areas of the country consume different types, and need different settings for the refineries..... Not even Saudi Arabia wants to build another refinery, they are happy refining the oil they use. Its up to us to refine what we use, but not one company is interested in building any.....or expanding current refineries... The simple truth is the fact that we won't pump any more than what we are currently pumping worldwide, and demand has surpassed pumping and refinery capacities....

In other words, peak oil....

Ever since Jimmy Carter killed the oil depreciation allowance, that is when refineries stopped being built..... Refineries are not buildings, they are machines, and every other machine can be depreciated, but not in the oil business.....

[Jordan6]

For the ladies.[(-D]

[Train Guy 3]

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

So..... where does GM sell beter, locomtives or cars?

[dave9999]

It's not that we need big cars, it's that we can get big cars. Big vehicles are as available as small vehicles. I work in construction and would destroy a small truck in a
matter of days. For example, last week I pulled a trailer loaded with well over 1500 lbs of
wood to Defuniak Springs, Fl ( about 85 miles from Pensacola). A TOYota would have been coughing and chocking on the first hill.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=126522&ck=

BTW, to make this post train related, I saw a lot of MOW work along Hwy 90 from Mossy Head to Defuniak. They were replacing rail, taking up the old in loooong sections and
laying them along the right of way. The Mow trains were parked on the Mossy Head wye.
Which I believe extends on towards Eglin AFB(?) Help me out dharmon. I'm sure you've
had a birds eye view of this area. Dave

[Anonymous]

I need a big car to have room to take my 2 hour naps coming home from my terminal when I am working on my rest sometimes it's all the rest I can get...

Having a V-8 is nice too in a mid-size SUV that can get out of it's own way...

LC

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train Guy 3

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

Well I'll agree, there's that, too! (Don't forget the GTX...)

[daveklepper]

I'll just have to keep asking the question: 'What about hybrids? Dave Klepper

[M636C]

Dave,

So far Hybrid vehicles are fairly small vehicles, really city cars, but there is no reason why the principle couldn't be applied to mid size cars, or smaller SUVs. The weight and capacity of the battery would be a problem, so the performance on electric power might be more restricted, but the energy saving from regenerating would still be there.

Peter

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train Guy 3

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

So..... where does GM sell beter, locomtives or cars?

picture the Mookie in a roadrunner - orange, a mustang convertible - red with white rag top and a Nova. Owned the RR, borrowed the Mustang and got the Nova well past it's prime! But fond memories, anyway!

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I'll just have to keep asking the question: 'What about hybrids? Dave Klepper

Dave -- I think several people have answered the question, in effect. Peter, just after your post, and myself, a number of posts earlier, for example. Hybrids are certainly viable, and have some real advantages. The one I have driven -- the Honda flavour -- is a fine, fun little car. The bigger hybrids in trucks will be out in a year or two; no reason why they won't be just as good, although, as Peter noted, you do lose carrying capacity with the batteries (and carrying capacity is what a truck is all about).
To relate to rail: the Green Goat locomotive currently on the market and in use in several areas is a hybrid, and seems to work quite well. In the market for which it is designed -- switching -- the weight penalty from the batteries is not a problem: you need weight, and you don't need big-time horsepower all that often.
It's worth noting that the advantage of the hybrid design decreases as the proportion of 'highway' mileage (whether open road or mainline rail) goes up related to 'stop and go' (city driving or switching). The advantages of the hybrid come from two sources: prmarily from being able to use an engine which has the average horsepower necessary to perform the mission, and secondarily from optimizing that engine to run its very best at one specific power output.

[Anonymous]

I LOVE HORSEPOWER!!!! I have a 1985 Ford Mustang GT, which is currently at 245 horsepower, and when finances will allow, I'll pump it up to the 350hp + range, but that still probably won't be enough! I'm not happy unless I can pass EVERYTHING on the highway EXCEPT the gas stations[:D]. Remember, there is NO replacement for displacement!! Has your Audi ever gone from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds[:0], or less[:D]??? That is the ultimate experience, being thrown back against the seat so hard that the passengers can't lift thier arms off the seats!!![:D][:D] G-forces, my friend, G-forces!!!![:D]

[UPTRAIN]

I drive a 2004 Chevy Extended Cab V8 4x4 mo-pac blue...and damn proud of it!!!

[Modelcar]

....Good American C I and gobs of torque= delightful fun.

[Train Guy 3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train Guy 3

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

Well I'll agree, there's that, too! (Don't forget the GTX...)

I can't believe i forgot the GTX..... i even have a picture of a red one beside a SD45-2 above my bed. Well i forgot the Bel-Air too and the GTO and th...... well i could list great cars for days like i could list trains, so I'm gonna stop while I'm ahead. haha

[UPTRAIN]

I'd drive em all!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

So far Hybrid vehicles are fairly small vehicles, really city cars, but there is no reason why the principle couldn't be applied to mid size cars, or smaller SUVs. The weight and capacity of the battery would be a problem, so the performance on electric power might be more restricted, but the energy saving from regenerating would still be there.

Peter

The second generation Prius has more interior room than a Corolla and almost as much as a Camry. Torque and horsepower have been increased- it really gets up and goes! (much better than gen 1). The main (high-voltage) battery weighs around 100 pounds. Hybrid v-6 and v-8's are coming- Toyota is restructuring some of its production facilities to be able to produce the same model in gasoline or hybrid on the same assembly line. Look for them soon at a Toyota dealer near you!

[Anonymous]

Hmmm... I can diagnose and repair hybrid vehicles but I can't use a quote and respond properly! Must be my keyboard- yeah, thats it.

[UPTRAIN]

I'd like to go muddin in a hybrid...lol.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

I'd like to go muddin in a hybrid...lol.

Waddayamean the battery's dead?!? YOU get out and push!

[Anonymous]

Ahhh- the naysayers! Similar probably to when dieselization confronted the steam era. Don't fear- people Will go muddin' in a hybrid (Californicaters first!) and 'yer battry' won't go dead either. Embrace the 'new' technology- it's here to stay. If you don't end up owning one your children and/or their children probably will!

[M636C]

toyomantrains,

I had worked out what happened in your quote!

I've read reviews of the new Prius, but I'm not sure whether I've seen one. There are a few original Prius running in government fleets here. That should check whether they can be operated by users who don't know and don't care!

Peter

[Anonymous]

Hah! Good point. If it works for an idiot...
Scary though- give the non-thinking class new technology

[daveklepper]

What about Hybrids/ Ford's SUV looks like in can run on straight battery power as well as gas and battery together . But it's availability will be this Autumn. Will it be winner?