SRen wrote: Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster?
There's a reason why many states ban teens from driving with other teens in the car - they aren't paying attention to the road.
Who's to say that the two people in the cab might not get into a spirited discussion of sports, politics, what-have-you? Are they paying attention to the road? Not if they're trying to make their point!
There's a reason why airport shuttle trains don't have collisions. None of those that I've seen can - they either run alone or on separate tracks. The one I've seen that had two trains running on a shared track ran on the same drive cable. Only a broken cable could possibly allow them to be in the same place at the same time.
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SRen wrote:Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster? I know from personal experience that having a second person in a locomotive cab can prevent accidents, as a frieght train conductor I have intervened on several occasions to prevent an engineer from making a mistake.
Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster? I know from personal experience that having a second person in a locomotive cab can prevent accidents, as a frieght train conductor I have intervened on several occasions to prevent an engineer from making a mistake.
I don't think having a second person in the cab to act as a second pair of eyes would make things safer. Wasn't there an accident in Chicago like a year ago where an Amtrak train rear ended a NS freight train even though there were 3 people in the cab? I believe the engineer was an engineer-in-training, the other two people were the instructors and all of them misread a signal telling them to stop? Perhaps someone from Chicagoland can verify this.
SRen wrote:Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster?
Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster?
Well, I'm not sure if that is true.
In the EU, most trains - freight or passenger - only have the engineer in the cab. Freights normally don't even have a conductor. Yet very few accidents happen that can be traced back to grave human error preventable by adding an extra crew member.
If more eyes are better, how come there are so many freight crashes ???even with 3 pair of eyes in cab these people manage to rear end or head end other freights often at restricted speed.
I do work alone and feel anyone in cab is a distraction, be it a student, roadforeman, conductor , or fellow engineer, you find them either sleeping, reading, yapping on a phone, or keeping useless conversation about things not concerning safe operation of train.
just my $0.02
SRen wrote: Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster? I know from personal experience that having a second person in a locomotive cab can prevent accidents, as a frieght train conductor I have intervened on several occasions to prevent an engineer from making a mistake. Now I am not refering to "dumping the air" intervention here, just reminding an engineer that he should be operating at restricted speed or that he should be preparing to stop at the next signal are things that I occasionally have to do in the course of my duties. Have there been occasions were I felt that I may have just prevented an accident? YES!!!Before the Feds start insisting on mandating Positive Train Seperation technology maybe Amtrak and the commuter agencies should consider putting a second employee back into locomotive cabs. After all, Commercial Airliners fly with both a Pilot and Co-Pilot in the cockpit, why should passenger trains be any different?
Now I am not refering to "dumping the air" intervention here, just reminding an engineer that he should be operating at restricted speed or that he should be preparing to stop at the next signal are things that I occasionally have to do in the course of my duties. Have there been occasions were I felt that I may have just prevented an accident? YES!!!
Before the Feds start insisting on mandating Positive Train Seperation technology maybe Amtrak and the commuter agencies should consider putting a second employee back into locomotive cabs. After all, Commercial Airliners fly with both a Pilot and Co-Pilot in the cockpit, why should passenger trains be any different?
It certainly has been overlooked in all media coverage of this wreck. And it should be carefully examined. However, it will be pointed out that on many rapid transit systems, and on lines where there are MU (electric multiple unit) trains the engineer/moterman has been the sole crew member at the head end and there has been a remarkable safety record. It should be noted that either positive train control or "fail safe" trippers are already a part of most of these systesm, too. Better and more intense training --especially in the area of safety-- and more dedication (job, work, safety) on the part of employees will also go a long way; i.e. career choices not picking jobs for pay scale and benefits.
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SRen wrote: Why hasn't anyone pointed out the fact that having passenger train engineers working alone in a locomotive cab is a recipe for disaster? I know from personal experience that having a second person in a locomotive cab can prevent accidents, as a frieght train conductor I have intervened on several occasions to prevent an engineer from making a mistake.
No doubt that is true; however, I've lost count as to how many times I've had to wake up the conductor so he could go perform his duties.
SRen wrote: ....Have there been occasions were I felt that I may have just prevented an accident? YES!!!
....Have there been occasions were I felt that I may have just prevented an accident? YES!!!
See above.
SRen wrote: ....After all, Commercial Airliners fly with both a Pilot and Co-Pilot in the cockpit, why should passenger trains be any different?
....After all, Commercial Airliners fly with both a Pilot and Co-Pilot in the cockpit, why should passenger trains be any different?
Well, for one, if the engineer gets sick, he can stop his train just about anywhere he's not blocking a crossing and wait for a replacement--not quite so easy at 35,000'.
Additionally, I disagree that having two persons in the cab is the answer. I've had many occasions where the constant chatter from a motormouth was so distracting it was difficult to concentrate. And for the short runs of passenger service, cab monotony should not be that much of an issue--it's not like they're running at 3am after being on duty for 10 hours after getting called out on your rest.
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