Cut off the hands?
If you think about it, it would definitely stop graffitti wouldn't it?
In all seriousness someone hit it pretty good in an earlier post - in some circles graffitti is viewed as an art form (I have to say some of the work is VERY good) but when it is defacing private property then it is a problem. If it isn't prosecuted, then the practice will continue. John Mayer had a music video recently (this guy's crappy music is idolized by anyone under 30, mind you) where he had 'commissioned' artists (and I use that term loosely) go around and graffitti private property (with the approval of the owners) with all sorts of cute little phrases and symbols. At the end of the video, in very small letters (and very quickly) the disclaimer about the graffitti being performed on private property by commissioned artists appears. Anyone who isn't known for thinking hard will come away with the feeling that graffitti is okay as long as it puts out a good message. This is the mentatlity we live in today, and it won't change unless law enforcement steps up enforcement.
TimChgo9 wrote: Some sort of "rage against the machine"..... What "machine"?
Some sort of "rage against the machine"..... What "machine"?
The machine called capitalism.
Bucyrus wrote: TimChgo9 wrote: Some sort of "rage against the machine"..... What "machine"? The machine called capitalism.
Oh, brother!
It's interesting how small minds rationalize the morality of their actions by using different words.
We don't torture ... we use "enhanced interogation techniques.
Joegreen isn't a vandal ... he is a "graf artist".
Since he believes that anyone has the right to permanently paint their particular idea of art on the property of anyone they choose, I believe he will have no objection if the RR employee who catches him holds him down and tatoos the railroad's logo on his cheek or forehead.
After all, art is art.
If you think you are a great artist, perhaps you should contact the people who own the train cars. They might even pay you to make their cars "pretty".
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
And capitalism is a problem? Is it an unfair system? Yes.... Will there ever be a "fair" system... No. All the idealism, good feeling, and "rage" against the "machine" won't solve it, produce a fair system, or, make anyone happy.
But, no fair hijacking a thread, so I will leave it be.
Perhaps I misunderstood your reference to the "schizophrenic" attitude regarding graffiti. But, I was looking at it from a different perspective. There is an attitude among artists where they think that what they are producing is something sacred, world-changing, and infallible, and should be devoid of criticism, because after all, it is "art" and they are an "artist". They exist in a self absorbed world where "suffering" for "art" is a necssity. They will swear allegiance to the "ideal" of art, and that "commercializing" is a sell out (to the "Man" or the "machine", you pick) and diminishes their pursuit, and their "art". But, here's the other side of the same coin, all of them hope in their heart that someone will pay big money for what they produce, and then they will have fame, notariety, fortune, and then they can sit around in their chic Manhattan apartment, look serious, and pontificate about their "art", and claim that they never sold out.
In short it is someone who can paint a good picture, write a good song, play a good musical piece, etc. etc. and takes themselves way, way, way too seriously. There is a fantasy amont these people, that somehow the world will unite in a touchy feely way, and that the artists of the world will be showing the way.....
Am I diminishing talent? No, I am impugning the attitude, and the holier-than-thou "enlightenment" these people supposedly think they possess... I love creativity, the creative process, especially one that produces the off beat, and some what quirky stuff... but I cant' stand the attitude that some people figure has to go with it.
How about having these idiots wear prison type uniforms, Report to work at the railroad shops, work from 8am to midnight, 7 days a week removing their works of art. There might be times when no freight cars coming in, then have these idiots work in the community removing graffiti.
The maximum lenth of penalty would be according to the damage caused, say minimum 6 months to a maximum 6 years.
Murphy Siding wrote: joegreen wrote: hmm, looks like its pointless for me to say anything about graffiti cuz yall will throw a fit....so ill just sit back and listen. Go ahead.....tell me how your gonna stop graffiti. Im listening... For starters, let's stop glamorizing it.
joegreen wrote: hmm, looks like its pointless for me to say anything about graffiti cuz yall will throw a fit....so ill just sit back and listen. Go ahead.....tell me how your gonna stop graffiti. Im listening...
hmm, looks like its pointless for me to say anything about graffiti cuz yall will throw a fit....so ill just sit back and listen. Go ahead.....tell me how your gonna stop graffiti. Im listening...
For starters, let's stop glamorizing it.
As long as there are people foolish enough to think it is "art", that will be tough. I was shopping at Ollie's (a close-out dept. store like Big Lots) and there, in the toy section, were die-cast train cars tagged with "famous graffitti artists' signatures". IIRC, the product line was called Enamelized.
This just falls in with the ghetto-ization of popular culture. The politicians will whine about it to get the vote, but as long as someone is getting rich off of it, they won't stop it.
If everybody is thinking alike, then nobody is really thinking.
http://photobucket.com/tandarailroad/
Quote by Phoebe Vet
"...I believe he will have no objection if the RR employee who catches him holds him down and tatoos the railroad's logo on his cheek or forehead....."
Ive never heard of a railroad employee gettin that defensive of the cars. In the city it would be wise for an employee not to stop a person himself and instead report it without interaction. Graff artists can get defensive, if you try and stop em your just a beat down waiting to happen. Only exception to this is cops, in that case....run!
....to selector: about disposal of cans...the yards get littered with cans. The more respected artists throw theirs away. Wouldnt want any1 gettin finger prints off em now would we? There are cans made that will never show finger prints because of the material their outside is coated with. Anyway, its sad that most chose to litter. Ive seen small areas of yards that are littered so much you cant see the ground anymore. Thats when it gets bad.
This is minor...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8437644@N06/508268994/
Joegreen:
No surprise, your reading comprehension skills match your understanding of right and wrong.
I did not suggest that it should be done, I suggested that since you believe defacing other people's property is your right, then you surely wouldn't mind if the railroad employee defaced you or yours.
You have further demonstrated your moral center by adding a threat that anyone but a police officer trying to defend the railroad's property from your criminal activity will probably get the beating he deserves, and bragging about your knowledge of ways to avoid detection.
You are a true pillar of the community. Your mother must be so proud.
....yeah im a train rolling on "different" tracks. you know it!
I do what i do to enjoy life, if you hate what im about(which i know you do)........then shut yo mouth cuz nuttins gonna change.
....I really am startin to like the hate in this thread. Its like that player that plays even better when people booo him.
You confuse hate with contempt.
You are a criminal, and proud of it.
Thus the contempt.
Phoebe Vet wrote: You confuse hate with contempt.You are a criminal, and proud of it.Thus the contempt.
Good point. I liked hate, but now that you make contempt sound so much more appealing...ill go with that.
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending RR graffiti (and I'm not) - graffiti is as old as mankind.
There was even a railroader who reportedly "tagged" a quarter million cars: Bozo Texino. He used chalk, however, not a couple of cases of spray paint.
GI's made famous "Kilroy," again mostly with chalk (knowing GI's, Kilroy was probably immortallized in paint in at least a few places).
But, on the subject at hand - perhaps the arrest of a couple of of perps who have made their "project" one of international scope will cause a few similar "artists" to reconsider their quest.
Unlike the GI's, the tagging we're talking about is totally about ego. I suspect that even if the railroads paid to have all of their cars refinished with "graffiti," the tagging would continue, so the perp's own marks would be "on top."
As for the whole cutting hands off thing - it's a bit extreme, but other threats of punishment don't seem to have much effect.
And it would seem like some Internet sleuths would be able to find JG's home address, so a group can go and tag his house and vehicle (and maybe some of his relatives homes and vehicles, too). Fair is fair.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 wrote: At the risk of sounding like I'm defending RR graffiti (and I'm not) - graffiti is as old as mankind. There was even a railroader who reportedly "tagged" a quarter million cars: Bozo Texino. He used chalk, however, not a couple of cases of spray paint.GI's made famous "Kilroy," again mostly with chalk (knowing GI's, Kilroy was probably immortallized in paint in at least a few places).But, on the subject at hand - perhaps the arrest of a couple of of perps who have made their "project" one of international scope will cause a few similar "artists" to reconsider their quest. Unlike the GI's, the tagging we're talking about is totally about ego. I suspect that even if the railroads paid to have all of their cars refinished with "graffiti," the tagging would continue, so the perp's own marks would be "on top."As for the whole cutting hands off thing - it's a bit extreme, but other threats of punishment don't seem to have much effect.And it would seem like some Internet sleuths would be able to find JG's home address, so a group can go and tag his house and vehicle (and maybe some of his relatives homes and vehicles, too). Fair is fair.
NAH, That would only punish his parents, as I am sure this LOSER is living in Mommy and Daddy's basement, or at best a low rent apartment, living off welfare. Very few Homeowners would show this disregard for others property, most having worked hard to get what they have, appreciate the sense of loss and violation that Vandalism would cause. But if his home is found maybe a chat with Mommy and Daddy would do some good, wouldn't bet on it though.
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Old as mankind is not defending it. Homicide is as old as mankind, too.
Bank robbery is as old as banks. Doesn't make it less criminal.
Phoebe Vet wrote: Joegreen:No surprise, your reading comprehension skills match your understanding of right and wrong.I did not suggest that it should be done, I suggested that since you believe defacing other people's property is your right, then you surely wouldn't mind if the railroad employee defaced you or yours.You have further demonstrated your moral center by adding a threat that anyone but a police officer trying to defend the railroad's property from your criminal activity will probably get the beating he deserves, and bragging about your knowledge of ways to avoid detection.You are a true pillar of the community. Your mother must be so proud.
To add to these excellent points, what you're doing, Joe, has already been done. It's nothing imaginative, nothing innovative, nothing revolutionary. It's simply childish, imbecilic, simplistic and, yes of course, criminal, and it's been done to death by thousands of other morons through the decades. You haven't the mental skills nor the conscience to understand the wrong that you're doing. It's simply the satisfaction of a base urge to fill some void in your life, ever so briefly, until that urge overwhelms what little common sense you possess, and it's off to buy some more paint, like an alcoholic to a liquor store. The difference is an alcoholic does their damage to themselves in most cases, whereas you do it to people who've done you no wrong.
When I see proof that you've vandalized your own home or your own place of business (assuming either exist, which is a stretch), then I'll be impressed. Until then, you're a petty criminal without the courage, the strength, the ambition, or the intelligence to pull-off something truly worth the public's attention.
You need help, dude.
At this point, may I suggest that we step back a bit. We have the same ol' creeping in to this topic, and it has never served to get it beyond this point. As we humans tend to do, we confuse the act with the person, personalize the discussion, and then turn on each other with sharp words. I don't want to philosophize and make everyone's eyes glaze over (if that is possible ), so let me just say that we should try to keep each other at arm's length, be respectful of the person, and deal with the act.
Is the act ethical behaviour? Does/should it matter? Let's keep the Joe Green's and Crandell Overton's out of the logic because the person is irrelevant. If the act is wrong, prove as much. If it is right, prove as much. If we personalize the thread, it'll get locked, and we have the zero sum of similar threads of the past. Talk about cutting arms off and hate doesn't advance the argument if you ask me.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd like to see less of a personalized approach to our discussion if it can be done.
-Crandell
Selector:
When a criminal is bragging and defending his right to continue his crimes it is impossible to separate the criminal from the crime. For what it's worth, I do not agree with the vindictive proposals in here. My statement was merely "How would YOU like it if:".
That said, I also recognize when I would get farther talking with my dog, so I will back out of here.
You will not see me in this thread again.
Crandell -
While it hasn't been cited chapter and verse why graffiti is illegal, there are few, if any, who will argue otherwise, even the graffiti apologists.
What frustrates most folks is that the apologists seem to feel it is their right (we get the same thing from trainhoppers) to pursue their actions and to praise others who do the same.
While some of the proposed solutions are severe, I feel it just mirrors that frustration.
And when it comes right down to it, some of those defending said actions are little better than some of the other trolls we've had here on the forum - revelling in how much they can rile up the populace.
You know the funny thing about all this is that not once, not once i assure you on this site in the past 4 years have I ever admitted to or "bragged" about doing graffiti myself personally, and I had never admitted I had done so in the years before I was a member here. I have talked about certain graffiti artists, maybe some that I have known(or maybe not) but that doesnt put the can of paint in my hand. Yes, Ill admit I know waaay too much about graffiti... so much that a person with very little or no knowledge of graffiti upon hearing my statements would believe I have done graffiti. As a matter of fact I remember the person that first accused me of doing graffiti just because I "knew too much"........the phrase "one knows what youll be doing in the yard tonight, joe" comes to mind. Thats where it started and it has snow balled since then. Now I see quite a bit of you turned this simple [probably sarcastic at the time]comment into some sort of fact that i will stop at nothin to destroy your house, your buisness, or "your" railroad. This whole thread probably wouldnt even have been posted had it not been for my obvious support of graffiti on this forum. SW knows that, thus the smart @$$ comment about ether and dani being my so-called "friends". This thread was just a jab at me because a couple graffiti artists were caught......and since to everyone here I am one I must be crying my eyes out.
I will say once again, I myself joegreen personally have never admitted to nor have I ever referred to a time in the past where I have done or is doing graffiti on railroad equipment, places of buisness, or personal property. So get it through your ever so apparent thick skulls and your money filled pockets(cuz after all you guys are better at life than I am)...
furthermore I will aslo deny nothing....good day.
Whats wrong with money-filled pockets? Sure buys alot of spray paint cans.
Tree,
I for one have no intent to rile up the populace, but I do feel that the penalties for crimes that are a concious decision such as Burglary, Rape, Auto Theft, Petty Theft, Vandalism, which includes Graffiti, should all be VERY SEVERE. People CHOOSE to do this things, KNOWING that they are WRONG, for their own benefit at someone else's expense. I say make the punishments Draconian, and mete them out to those who are caught and convicted. Make the penalties serious enough that they think VERY seriously about whether it is worth the penalty to commit the crime. I for one felt that Singapore let Michael Faye off easier than they should have. He did something that he should not have done and got caught doing it. If we followed this example, I feel there would be a LOT less of these kinds of things happening. Again make it clear what the penalties are, and that they WILL be meted out, then if someone still commits the crime, they have no one to blame but themselves. Very Simple, and I believe that it would be effective Very Quickly, once it was shown to be serious and enforced.
Doug
doghouse wrote: Whats wrong with money-filled pockets? Sure buys alot of spray paint cans.
I know right? You could buy alot of walmart paint if you had money filled pockets, but since I know youre a man of quality you would want to spend 5 bux extra per can for the good stuff....MTN hardcore.
This is why you should never appraoch these vandals. Never know what could happen. Leave it to the police.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/aug/02/la_graffiti_vandals_turn_violent/
"Trouble Maker" Paul
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
joegreen wrote: doghouse wrote: Whats wrong with money-filled pockets? Sure buys alot of spray paint cans. I know right? You could buy alot of walmart paint if you had money filled pockets, but since I know youre a man of quality you would want to spend 5 bux extra per can for the good stuff....MTN hardcore.
Oa ya! Nothing but the good stuff. And an attorney to get me out of jail. And maybe an education so I could go out in the real world and persue a life.
Like that verse from the Kenny Rodger's song goes: "know when to hold em, know when to fold em." Time to let it go.
doghouse wrote: joegreen wrote: doghouse wrote: Whats wrong with money-filled pockets? Sure buys alot of spray paint cans. I know right? You could buy alot of walmart paint if you had money filled pockets, but since I know youre a man of quality you would want to spend 5 bux extra per can for the good stuff....MTN hardcore.Oa ya! Nothing but the good stuff. And an attorney to get me out of jail. And maybe an education so I could go out in the real world and persue a life.Like that verse from the Kenny Rodger's song goes: "know when to hold em, know when to fold em." Time to let it go.
You dont need an attorney if you dont make the mistake of getting caught in the first place.....
You also dont need to pursue education if your life is already satisfactory without one.....
joegreen wrote: doghouse wrote: joegreen wrote: doghouse wrote: Whats wrong with money-filled pockets? Sure buys alot of spray paint cans. I know right? You could buy alot of walmart paint if you had money filled pockets, but since I know youre a man of quality you would want to spend 5 bux extra per can for the good stuff....MTN hardcore.Oa ya! Nothing but the good stuff. And an attorney to get me out of jail. And maybe an education so I could go out in the real world and persue a life.Like that verse from the Kenny Rodger's song goes: "know when to hold em, know when to fold em." Time to let it go.You dont need an attorney if you dont make the mistake of getting caught in the first place.....You also dont need to pursue education if your life is already satisfactory without one.....
I can't argue with your second response. That's a personal choice. The first one, though, everyone gats caught, in some fashion or another. It's just a matter of time.
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