What's your favorite pre-Amtrak passenger train?

[john lea]

Well, I see there's at least one west coast fan around. I agree the "San Joaquin Daylight" which my father was the last conductor to make the final run from Fresno to Oakland on. Of course I'm a bit predgice (sp) because there are 4 generations of SP railroaders in our family . From 1926 to 2004. I love the steam era and early electromotive era. Back then railroading was a romance with trains & engines, people & places, stations & places between stations, sidings.
So, Kozzie, if you need help in getting any rail cars or power or what ever just e-mail me and we will see what we can do for you, O.K.?
there are quite a few beautiful passenger trains, pre Amtrek, which I really don't care for, reason is ovbious (sp),that are very beautiful. The things that make them so are the romance and the beauty of such a large piece of machinery moving at such a speed that it doesn't even look like
it is moving until it is right on top of you. Then BAB it's gone!

Yes, the "Daylight" ran from LA, Los Angles,Ca to Oakland,Ca & return, daily.
There were a few other SP passenger trains around too, "Coast Daylight" "Sunset LImited" etc. Hope I've helped.

[Anonymous]

Kozzie--

As to your question, here's an area that hasn't been covered.

In the US southwest (which I understand has a lot in common with parts of Oz), comprising TX, LA, NM, OK, AR, AZ :

Classiest: anything Santa Fe (including the secondary schedules) was a class act right up to the end. Not much else was, until you went north into UP territory.

Worst (by far): SP's Sunset with the Russellburger (vending machine) car and little else, and for this they charged extra fare!

Second worst: anything MP or T&P Jenks-era. A diner lounge serving fried chicken for $8 US in 1967! You could buy it in most restaurants in TX for 98 cents, including salad, potato and drink. Agents weren't allowed to write connecting tickets, because somebody might buy them. I'd mention SP again, but they didn't have anything else.

Best old-timer: Katy/Frisco's Texas Special (St. Louis-San Antonio) before about 1956 when Katy really began to get into financial trouble. Great service, classy train. And possibly the brightest (arguable, of course) paint job between the Coast Daylight and the City of New Orleans: stainless with bright red roofs, ends, and window panels, and maroon side sills. All red lettering. And shadow-striped heavyweights, through sleepers from numerous roads at various times (including Pennsylvania, B&O and GM&O), and a Pullman obs sleeper (rare in our part of the country).

Earliest Rock-n-roll festival on wheels: The FW&D Sam Houston Zephyr ripping along at 90+ on the 90 lb. between North Zulch and Houston. They issued 100 mph slow orders for this train, just like the Twins and the Hiawathas up north. 250 miles in 4 hours flat. Try that, Amtrak.

Best recycling job: FW&D/C&S (Burlington subsidiaries) Texas Zephyr (Dallas-Denver) between 1956 and 1963-4 with the original articulated Denver Zephyr trainsets, E5A/B, train name on the locos and letterboards, and a genuine neon tailsign on the observation car. This was also a class act while it lasted. What they replaced it with was almost as bad as the Sunset, but at least they kept the observation-lounge-diner off the original 1940 version (Silver Bowl or Silver Tray) north of Fort Worth. Great place to see freight cars, converted troop sleepers and baggage and Pullman pool cars from just about anywhere. You knew the streamlined stuff was really bad when the silver-painted heavyweights rode better, sat better, had functioning toilets and HVAC, and were actually clean.

Also generally good while it lasted: KCS Southern Belle-a real effort made to offer good service, but the train went through nowhere with few intermediate markets. Great color scheme--black cars above red and yellow stripes with silver roofs. Came off when they killed the RPOs. And also pre-Jenks MP & T&P.

Most eclectic (OK, so I expanded the area south a little bit): The Aguila Azteca (Aztec Eagle) on the NdeM that my wife and I rode in 1977 from Nuevo Laredo- Mexico City and back, in a Pullman all the way, for $75 US total! Train had everything, including segundas packed to the roofs, primeras also packed to the roofs, an ex C&O "Chessie" divided coach running as a primera especial coach, a Swiss diner (comedor) and several Pullmans (dormitorios) from various sources (all clean with working HVAC and good car attendants), and an in-service caboose on the rear of the northbound.

And for those who never experienced it, here is a description of life on the NdeM in those days:

Clase Segunda (2nd class)--no restrooms
Clase Primera (1st class)--restrooms but no toilet paper therein
Clase Primera Especial (special 1st class)--restrooms but no toilet paper therein, but there is an attendant to dole out toilet paper

Seriously, we had a Pullman compartment in a Swiss sleeper that did have toilet paper, but the restroom light didn't work, so had to do one's business either in the dark or with the door partially open. Food was generally good, edible and cheap, practiced my Spanish w/ the rear brakeman, who wanted to practice his English. Down in the mountains we had a company of Mexican troops riding the vestibules (they were protecting the mail from banditos-the train still had an in-service RPO)-really nice guys. It was considered easy duty and thus assigned as a reward for good work. Went into Buenavista when it was literally filled with trains, including the all Pullman Guadalajara train in 2 sections, if I recall right, and guys dispensing hot coffee out on the high platforms to passengers through the open segunda/primera coach windows from pumped-up air packs worn on their backs, like something from outer space. Generally a great trip. Parts were definitely third-world. All gone now.

[traingeek087]

Calafornia Zephyr. It ran long with CBQ, used cool looking cars with cool names, silver E units, and was long. much less it went through about 20 miles away, but I wasn't alive then.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

My favorite pre Amtrak train was the San Joaquin Daylight.When I rode it in 1961 it still had a diner and a full length dome lounge car.This was my first train ride.[:D]
Kozzie,I rode a twin unit diner on the Broadway in1978.One car was a combination kitchen/dorm,and the other was full table seating.[:)]

Hi espeefoamer

With a name like that, I guess the San Joaquin Daylight was a Californian train...did it run out of LA? Was it a Southern Pacific train?

Hey Sooblue

Where did the Mainstreater run?

I have another Northen Pacific question:
What does the white writing on the sides of the two-tone green NP locos say?
I can never see a photo that is clear enough to read it....?

Thanks

Kozzie
Brisbane, QLD
Oz
Hi Kozzie,
The Northern Pacific's Mainstreeter and North Coast Limited both ran Chicago to
Seatle and back, the Mainstreeter was number 1 WB and number 2 EB. The North Coast
Limeted was number 25 West bound and number 26 EB.
The white lettering on the side of the F Units said "MAIN STREET OF THE NORTHWEST.

railwayray
Sagle Idaho
USA

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1

I enjoyed traveling on the UP's City of Los Angeles between Upland, CA and North Platte, Nebraska(where my Grand parents lived). My Grandfather was an engineer on the UP and his normal run was from North Platte to Grand Island.
One of the exciting things on the City of Los Angeles was the Dome Dining car. My next fondest memory was sitting in the dining cars after they were closed and listening to the train workers tell stories. They had me in stiches for hours. They also looked after me since I was a young teen traveling alone in the coach cars.

A dome dining car! Sounds like a good idea! I thougt dome cars were only used for general sitting car format.

Did many other trains have these?

Kozzie

[joesap1]

I enjoyed traveling on the UP's City of Los Angeles between Upland, CA and North Platte, Nebraska(where my Grand parents lived). My Grandfather was an engineer on the UP and his normal run was from North Platte to Grand Island.
One of the exciting things on the City of Los Angeles was the Dome Dining car. My next fondest memory was sitting in the dining cars after they were closed and listening to the train workers tell stories. They had me in stiches for hours. They also looked after me since I was a young teen traveling alone in the coach cars.

[PwdOpd]

Two come to my mind. CNW/UP "City of Denver" is the first. This was with the original consist - Chicago to Denver in sixteen hours, and always on time. The second is the Milwaulee's "Morning Hiawatha", Minneapolis to Chicago. Full car Dome, beautiful scenery along the Missippi and through the "Dells". It too, was right on the money. Paul

[jeaton]

Hands down, The Milwaukee Road's Afternoon Hiawatha. Even with diesel and UP "City" colors. 100MPH from Tomah to Watertown, full length dome car, and the unique rear end obs car for first class.

[Anonymous]

I can't really say what my favorite pre-Amtrak train was, because I was too young at the time to go wandering off by myself when I was living in New York City. When I started junior high school, I would sneak up to Penn Station or Grand Central Terminal in Man-hattan after school to watch the parade of long distance in their afternoon departure time slots. My mother would freak every time for coming home late from school, know-ing fully well where I was, but she was more relieved to know that I wasn't doing any drugs, drinking or committing crimes. Some of those trains were still very long (16-20 cars) and would sport several lounge cars and twin unit diner combinations. I've seen on rare occasions where they had to run 2 GG1's on some of the southern trains be-cause of the length (20+ cars) and the steam capacity to reach the rear most cars. Even at Grand Central Terminal, when one of the trains still ran to Chicago, there were some occasions I witnessed 3 FL9's to pull the train up the Park Avenue tunnel. That was true and real railroading at it's best, even if it was at it's worst.


Glenn
A R E A L RAILROADER...A T R U E AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Block House]

MY FAVORATE WAS THE ORANGE, CHOCLATE AND YELLOW OF THE ILLONIOS CENTRAL. THE ONE I LIKED THE BEST WAS THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS.[

[kenneo]

NP's "North Coast Limited"
GN's "Empire Builder"
UP's "City of Portland"
"Portland Rose"
"Idaho Mail"
"City of St. Louis"
SP's "Shasta Daylight"
"Cascade"

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

My favorite pre Amtrak train was the San Joaquin Daylight.When I rode it in 1961 it still had a diner and a full length dome lounge car.This was my first train ride.[:D]
Kozzie,I rode a twin unit diner on the Broadway in1978.One car was a combination kitchen/dorm,and the other was full table seating.[:)]

Hi espeefoamer

With a name like that, I guess the San Joaquin Daylight was a Californian train...did it run out of LA? Was it a Southern Pacific train?

Hey Sooblue

Where did the Mainstreater run?

I have another Northen Pacific question:
What does the white writing on the sides of the two-tone green NP locos say?
I can never see a photo that is clear enough to read it....?

Thanks

Kozzie
Brisbane, QLD
Oz

O please see your other thread ------
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13385

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Understandable Kozzie,

Have you decided which passenger train or cars you'd like to model?

I'm governed a lot by what the shops here down under can mangae to get from the importers. Not everything I see in Model Railroader turns up down here - can be real frustrating. So I keep it flexible.

But I do have a hankering for some of the east coast lines, as so many modellers down here just run UP or BNSF and it becomes a case of overkill - very obvious at the model railway shows...groan!...around the end appears another UP intermodal...yawn!
I mean, they look great - but "every man and his dog" run it...

The B&O blue looks really classy, but now you have tempted me with the SCL stuff you mentioned, I'll have to check it out at the LHS...

Did the the Silver Meteor and Silver Star and the Champion run with Budd stainless steel cars?

Kozzie

[AntonioFP45]

Understandable Kozzie,

Have you decided which passenger train or cars you'd like to model?

[Kozzie]

AntonioFP45

I agree with you about the striping - if your going to have it, make a good show of it.
My Kato HO SD45 in Rio Grande livery looks sensational. Runs very well too - very smooth, great even at very low speeds.

When you say DC, do you mean the regular power controller that steps down the hoesehold voltage (240 down hear) to 12 volts? That's what I will be using.

DCC is yet future for me - especially because of the cost. My funds qre quite limited.
Maybe one day - but my layout will be reasonably simple, can be handled with the traditional controllers. I leave the complex stuff to the clubhouse layout.

Cheers

Dave
(Kozzie)

[overall]

City of Miami is mine. I have said this before in this forum but it used to pass my Grandmothers house on Southern's Alabama Division at night around 8:00 pm or so. Quite a sight.

George

[AntonioFP45]

Kozzie,

As far as other roads using bumblebee schemes, I can't recall but there are similar schemes using different colors. B&O and C&O in the late 60s useddark blue on the locomotive bodies with just a single stripe above the trucks (too plain-jane in my opinion)[;)] [swg]

One thing that I really like about Rio Grande is that they've always had good looking paint schemes! [C):-)]

By the way, for the passenger train(s) that you decide to model, are you going to include interiors and lighting? Will you be operating on a DCC or DC system? Just curious. [8)][8D][:)]

[Anonymous]

My two favorites were both on the Reading

The Wall Street Philadelphia to Jersey City

The King Coal Philadelphia to Shamokin

[Anonymous]

The top three I rode were:

1. The California Zephyr

2. The Empire Builder

3. The Canadian (CP pre-VIA)

LC

[jchnhtfd]

When I was a little nipper in Minnesota (many years ago, guys!) my favourite train was actually a pair -- the Milwaukee road's Hiawathas, hauled by absolutely incredible streamlined Atlantics. Speed (unfortunately, there never was an official timing -- but unofficially they routinely ran over 110 mph), great service, great equipment...

But then... there's never been a train I didn't enjoy riding.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

My favorite pre Amtrak train was the San Joaquin Daylight.When I rode it in 1961 it still had a diner and a full length dome lounge car.This was my first train ride.[:D]
Kozzie,I rode a twin unit diner on the Broadway in1978.One car was a combination kitchen/dorm,and the other was full table seating.[:)]

Hi espeefoamer

With a name like that, I guess the San Joaquin Daylight was a Californian train...did it run out of LA? Was it a Southern Pacific train?

Hey Sooblue

Where did the Mainstreater run?

I have another Northen Pacific question:
What does the white writing on the sides of the two-tone green NP locos say?
I can never see a photo that is clear enough to read it....?

Thanks

Kozzie
Brisbane, QLD
Oz

[sooblue]

My favorite passenger train was the Northern Pacific Mainstreater.
My brother inlaw was one of the chefs. I traveled on it in 1967. Had a great time and met a cool woman.

Sooblue

[espeefoamer]

My favorite pre Amtrak train was the San Joaquin Daylight.When I rode it in 1961 it still had a diner and a full length dome lounge car.This was my first train ride.[:D]
Kozzie,I rode a twin unit diner on the Broadway in1978.One car was a combination kitchen/dorm,and the other was full table seating.[:)]

[Kozzie]

Hey AntonioFP45!

About the SCL E6 A & B Proto 2000 loco at your LHS...I reckon "carpe diem" sieze the day and buy it! I find if I hang off too long, someone else buys it i end up profoundly dissapointed..maybe put it on the plastic card hmmmm? ha ha

And if you fing you didn't need it, you could always put it up for sale at a local buy and sell..

I didn't realise SCL used a "Bumble Bee" livery like Rio Grande.
Any other roads use it?

Cheers
Kozzie

[AntonioFP45]

Kozzie,

If this is helpful,[;)]

Seaboard Coast Line's two other Florida to New York "hot shots" were the Silver Meteor and Silver Star. Amtrak today, still runs these trains, but it's just not the same.

The Silver Comet ran from New York City to the city of Birmingham in Alabama.

Proto 2000 lineoffered a good looking Seaboard Coast Line E6 A & B set. I don't think it's available anymore as Proto 2000 units are limited runs, but you might be able to find some in model railroad shops still on the shelf. My LHS has one left that's been on the shelf several months and has priced it for $84. I'm seriously considering it!

[Kozzie]

Hi AntonioFP45

Thanks for all that info, greeat stuff!
I like running models of the lesser known trains, particularly when our model railway club sets up it's exhibition layout at shows.
Quite a few of the crowds at the shows know a thing or two about railroads, and they appreciate seeing something different instead of the same ol' same ol'...trouble is - getting it in ready-to-run models is often impossible.

I will check out the Walthers web site.

GG1s sure had some grunt!

Cheers

Kozzie

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Kozzie,

The Seaboard Coast Line used the "Bumble Bee" paint scheme, inherited from Atlantic Coast Line. Black locomotives with safety yellow striping running horizontally on the body. Go to Railfan.net and you'll find pictures of some SCL passenger trains.

Passenger cars were in stainless steel finishes, however SCL started painting the roofs black. While the majority were done, SCL never did fini***he entire car fleet by the time Amtrak came into existence so a person modeling SCL can actually have both versions of the cars.

Walthers is offering HO SCL passenger cars. Beautifully done!

Pennsy took over the SCL and Southern Railway trains in Washington D.C where the diesels were uncoupled and a GG1 (yes, usually one!) was coupled onto each train. The GG1 then breezed up to the final destination of New York City. GG1s even in the 60s were hitting 100mph speeds![^][8D][:)]

Peace out![:D][:D][8D][swg][tup]

[Kozzie]

BaltACD,

With the twin unit diners - kitchen and dining area in both cars?

One does wonder, if Amtrak ever got enough funding, (yeah..right!...), if it could approach the level of class/style of these wonderful trains like Capitol Limited ...?

[BaltACD]

I am partial to the B&O's Capitol Limited.

Dome Cars (that had lights to view the scenery at night), twin-unit Diner's, Combination Lounge on the head end, Square end Pullman Observation Lounges (Napannee & Wawasee) on the rear.

The Dining Car staff was curteous and efficient, the tables set will real linen and silverware and the B&O Blue China and the meals were to die for.. Finished off with finger bowls to clean your hands. Truly the way to travel from the 'Land of Plesent Living' to Chicago.

[Kozzie]

AntonioFP45, that's exactly the type of info I was looking for.
Pardon my ignorance but what was the livery on the SCL locos?

When you say "GG1 in the North East Corridor", did Pennsylvania haul the Champion part of the way??

Kozzie