Fallen Flag wrote: You are the one who took the holier-than-thou attitude and are trying to smite me down when my intent was never to cause an argument with anyone on here.
You are the one who took the holier-than-thou attitude and are trying to smite me down when my intent was never to cause an argument with anyone on here.
And you are the one who should be looking to take the high road vs. perpetuating an unwanted debate.
Wecome to the Trains Magazine General Discussion Forum.
Yea, it was a big enough deal to start a topic because OBVIOUSLY I don't want it to happen again. DUH!
I went back and reread the entire thread with emphasis on your original and subsequent posts, nowhere did I find anything obvious about your intent or lack thereof. The only thing I find obvious is your youth and lack of maturity, DUH! Sorry, but I call 'em like I see 'em.
I figured I would ask those of you on here who are experienced with this stuff as to how to avoid it, but no... I get a flame war and insults. Awesome. Some of you are just a tad bit too frikkin' touchy.
I figured I would ask those of you on here who are experienced with this stuff as to how to avoid it, but no... I get a flame war and insults. Awesome.
Some of you are just a tad bit too frikkin' touchy.
Excuse me sir, but what's also obvious is that you're the touchy one in this situation whos emotions have been affected by words written. Again... Welcome to the Trains Magazine General Discussion Forum. I think you'll fit in just fine.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Props on tha name convicted one. I love it everytime i see it.
zugmann wrote:Get over yourself AGAIN. YOu chose the word hassle. You could have put "encounter". Yes you can expect cops to check up on you when you are trespassing (and illegally parking, apparently). Tracks are PRIVATE property, whether they are being used or not. And no, responsible railfans do not walk the tracks while railfanning. Walk on my tracks, and I'll be sure to notify the dispatcher to call out the proper authorities. And I would have no issue in telling you in person to do the same if I happened to be on the ground. You were the one that thought it was a big enough of a deal to start a topic on it.
Get over yourself AGAIN. YOu chose the word hassle. You could have put "encounter". Yes you can expect cops to check up on you when you are trespassing (and illegally parking, apparently). Tracks are PRIVATE property, whether they are being used or not. And no, responsible railfans do not walk the tracks while railfanning. Walk on my tracks, and I'll be sure to notify the dispatcher to call out the proper authorities. And I would have no issue in telling you in person to do the same if I happened to be on the ground.
You were the one that thought it was a big enough of a deal to start a topic on it.
The main idea of my post was simply to ask if I REALLY WAS TRESPASSING (and I can accept that I was, that's fine, I'm obviously going to take measures not to do so in the future) and if i should expect to be APPROACHED AGAIN by any law enforcement. You are the one who took the holier-than-thou attitude and are trying to smite me down when my intent was never to cause an argument with anyone on here.
Yea, it was a big enough deal to start a topic because OBVIOUSLY I don't want it to happen again. DUH! I figured I would ask those of you on here who are experienced with this stuff as to how to avoid it, but no... I get a flame war and insults. Awesome.
Phoebe Vet wrote:His handle. "Convicted one"
So? There are a number of colorful handles here.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Convicted One wrote: Did he wave? lol.
Did he wave? lol.
Phoebe Vet wrote: Dear Convicted One:What an odd thing to brag about. I assume the name is derived from pride.A major crime commonly committed against railroads is the theft of miles of copper wire from their right of way. Any police officer who comes across a car parked on or near the right of way with no other apparent reason for being there would be derelict in his duty if he DIDN'T check it out.I am only an authority on the laws in New York, but at least there when you enter or remain on the property of another you are trespassing if you pass any kind of a barrier intended to keep you out. That can be a fence, a wall, a hedge row, or even just a no trespassing sign. You are also trespassing if you are instructed to leave by anyone who has the authority to do so, and you fail to comply or you return.It sounds to me like that Police Officer has instructed you to stay off railroad property. Next time you enter it you will be trespassing and probably arrested. If you had walked out carrying wire cutters, or any railroad property you would probably be posting your complaint from the computer in the jail library.If you want to rail fan, photograph from a safe place where you are allowed to be and by all means look like a civil person and not like a street thug as is currently so popular with our youth.
Dear Convicted One:
What an odd thing to brag about. I assume the name is derived from pride.
A major crime commonly committed against railroads is the theft of miles of copper wire from their right of way. Any police officer who comes across a car parked on or near the right of way with no other apparent reason for being there would be derelict in his duty if he DIDN'T check it out.
I am only an authority on the laws in New York, but at least there when you enter or remain on the property of another you are trespassing if you pass any kind of a barrier intended to keep you out. That can be a fence, a wall, a hedge row, or even just a no trespassing sign. You are also trespassing if you are instructed to leave by anyone who has the authority to do so, and you fail to comply or you return.
It sounds to me like that Police Officer has instructed you to stay off railroad property. Next time you enter it you will be trespassing and probably arrested. If you had walked out carrying wire cutters, or any railroad property you would probably be posting your complaint from the computer in the jail library.
If you want to rail fan, photograph from a safe place where you are allowed to be and by all means look like a civil person and not like a street thug as is currently so popular with our youth.
I don't understand. Where in his brief post did he brag about anything?
Cheese:
Your story sounds like an alcohol induced fantasy. "So I told my daddy and he had him fired?"
If that happened then you left out a lot of details.
zugmann wrote:Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
I can't believe this thread has turned into the war it has. My main question in this topic was whether or not I should expect to get "approached", if thats a friendlier word, by police officers in future railfanning situations. My choice of the word "hassle" didn't seem like a big deal at all to me.
If you re-read my post about one of the dates with my girlfriend, I never even said whether or not I thought the officer was acting inappropriately or not, I merely said "good thing I didn't make her mad!" My point was simply that her and I are used to encounters with law enforcement.
But hey, don't let that stop you from acting like a tough guy from your computer chair.
Perhaps you should "get over" yourself.
zugmann wrote: trainboyH16-44 wrote: And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera...
trainboyH16-44 wrote: And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer
And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer
Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera...
Oh don't worry, I know I'm an enormous foamer, I'd just prefer not to advertise that to the general (and judgemental) population. I have no delusion that a shirt without a train on it will distract people from my foot long white lens and tripod once I've popped them out trackside.
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
CopCarSS wrote: zugmann wrote:Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera... Oh dear... I think I resemble that remark...
zugmann wrote:Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera...
Oh dear... I think I resemble that remark...
wsherrick wrote: To add to this---You might not think you look like a, "foamer," but trust me, we know you when we see you. No offense meant; these are just the facts.
To add to this---You might not think you look like a, "foamer," but trust me, we know you when we see you. No offense meant; these are just the facts.
I've been told that the surest way to spot a foamer is to look into the mirror.
zugmann wrote: trainboyH16-44 wrote: And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera... To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
CNW 6000 wrote: zugmann wrote:To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done. +1
zugmann wrote:To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
+1
+2... and allow me to add that dressing in safety attire does not constitute impersonation of a railroad employee, it is merely a clear attempt at being safe and that's the explanation I would give if asked. Telling someone that you're a railroad employee is what will get you in trouble.
Dan
TrainManTy wrote:A shirt with a train photo or a railroad logo would help too, provided it doesn't look like you're trying to pretend you're working for that railroad... that would be hard to explain. You could put a rolled up TRAINS magazine in your back pocket too...
A shirt with a train photo or a railroad logo would help too, provided it doesn't look like you're trying to pretend you're working for that railroad... that would be hard to explain. You could put a rolled up TRAINS magazine in your back pocket too...
Cheese wrote: THEN, he turned on the lights and pulled us over. He thought I was drunk and and made me get out and walk in a straight line, even after my completely plausible explanation that we weren't paying attention at the light because we were laughing and I was going slow because he was making me nervous. THEN, he tried to make me say the ABC's backwards, which I can't do sober, and he started laughing and told me to go home. The freakin cop didn't even ask for my liscense of registration. I think he was just bored and needed a laugh. Needless to say I told me dad and that officer no longer has a job. Turns out he has done it before.Cheese
THEN, he turned on the lights and pulled us over. He thought I was drunk and and made me get out and walk in a straight line, even after my completely plausible explanation that we weren't paying attention at the light because we were laughing and I was going slow because he was making me nervous. THEN, he tried to make me say the ABC's backwards, which I can't do sober, and he started laughing and told me to go home.
The freakin cop didn't even ask for my liscense of registration. I think he was just bored and needed a laugh. Needless to say I told me dad and that officer no longer has a job. Turns out he has done it before.
Cheese
Cheese, it wasn't that long ago in this forum that you stated that you couldn't be a full member of the local model railroad club because they kept beer in the refrigerator and you weren't old enough to drink. So how are you able to discern and speak so forcefully on what you can do sober vs how you would function on the test when inebriated? Failing to go when the light turns green, driving unusually slow for conditions, and turning in an obvious attempt to lose a trailing police car constitute what is called "reasonable suspicion" in the law enforcement community, and is most certainly legal cause to stop the car and check the driver. The "freakin cops" (to use your term) have statistics on the % of drivers who exhibit the behaviors that you describe that are under the influence, and when more than one of them appear I would expect the officer to investigate. [I was an urban police officer for 30+ years, retiring at the rank of Captain.] Not sure who "Daddy" is and why it would listen to such stuff, but no officer in your city or county gets fired for the behavior you describe.
On to a more positive note: I have an old copy of "NWI's Guide to Railfan Photography" that I usually throw up in the dash when out taking pictures. It resolves a lot of concern before it gets started. A recent issue of "Railfan" magazine would likely do just as well.
Bill
Fallen Flag wrote: On our way back to the car, I see a police cruiser waiting on us, and of course he wanted to know what we were up to. I explained that we were just walking the tracks, and he said for "future reference" (maybe he had noticed me railfanning other areas around town, I don't know) that I couldn't walk the tracks because it was criminal trespassing, and that I didn't even have the right to park my car on the side of the street where I did.
On our way back to the car, I see a police cruiser waiting on us, and of course he wanted to know what we were up to. I explained that we were just walking the tracks, and he said for "future reference" (maybe he had noticed me railfanning other areas around town, I don't know) that I couldn't walk the tracks because it was criminal trespassing, and that I didn't even have the right to park my car on the side of the street where I did.
Ted Marshall wrote:If I could offer a suggestion to reduce the likelyhood of being 'hassled' it would be to dress the part when railfanning, especially if you're going to find yourself on railroad property or in a bad part of town adjacent to railroad property. By this, I mean wearing jeans vs. shorts, steel toe boots vs. sneakers or flip-flops, safety glasses and a reflective safety vest. It's been my experience that by dressing safely and conspicuously the authorities and otherwise undesired company (bums, transients, hoodlums, etc.) tend to leave me alone and the train crews usually give me a big wave or a toot on the horn. You may think that's a little over the top, perhaps it is, but it works for me. I draw the line at wearing a hard hat though... That would definitely be over the top, pun intended.
If I could offer a suggestion to reduce the likelyhood of being 'hassled' it would be to dress the part when railfanning, especially if you're going to find yourself on railroad property or in a bad part of town adjacent to railroad property. By this, I mean wearing jeans vs. shorts, steel toe boots vs. sneakers or flip-flops, safety glasses and a reflective safety vest. It's been my experience that by dressing safely and conspicuously the authorities and otherwise undesired company (bums, transients, hoodlums, etc.) tend to leave me alone and the train crews usually give me a big wave or a toot on the horn. You may think that's a little over the top, perhaps it is, but it works for me. I draw the line at wearing a hard hat though... That would definitely be over the top, pun intended.
WIAR wrote: Mr_Ash wrote:its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now. Oh please - it depends on the situation. Were it an operating line, then yes, you could expect to be arrested and with good reason. If it's obviously an abandoned line, especially one that's been scrapped, and you pick up a spike or an old sign that was discarded, I really doubt a cop is going to put you in jail for that. Yes, the cop was indeed doing his job, but police are human too and they don't look forward to booking someone for picking up junk, with all the attendant paperwork involved, when there are much bigger fish to fry. Obviously this particular officer could've, if he wanted to, run you and your friend in for trespassing but he didn't because he didn't feel you were up to no good and there was no point in doing so. Cops know the neighborhoods and communities.
Mr_Ash wrote:its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now.
Cheese wrote:The police in my area are VERY over the top indeed. Why just last night I had been haning out with some friends at the mall, and on the way home we stopped next to a patrol car at a stop light.Because of the over zelous policemen, I have become frightened of them. Well, I wasn't paying attention to the light, so I didn't start when it turned green. Then I went slow so the cop would pass me, but he didn't so I turned on my blinker to turn off on a road to let him pass because I was becoming increasingly nervous.THEN, he turned on the lights and pulled us over. He thought I was drunk and and made me get out and walk in a straight line, even after my completely plausible explanation that we weren't paying attention at the light because we were laughing and I was going slow because he was making me nervous. THEN, he tried to make me say the ABC's backwards, which I can't do sober, and he started laughing and told me to go home. The freakin cop didn't even ask for my liscense of registration. I think he was just bored and needed a laugh.
Cheese wrote: Needless to say I told me dad and that officer no longer has a job. Turns out he has done it before.
tree68 wrote: Something I haven't much of in any threads like this was "I was standing on a public sidewalk, watching the train go by/taking pictures/etc, and a cop came up and hassled me."
Something I haven't much of in any threads like this was "I was standing on a public sidewalk, watching the train go by/taking pictures/etc, and a cop came up and hassled me."
Well, I could regale you with a few personal stories that have "in a public place and being hassled" as the central theme.
But if I (or others) do so, I believe this thread might degenerate into a civil liberties (or lack thereof) argument, similar to previous threads on this subject.
Cheese wrote: ...unless you mind your Ps and Qs to a T.
...unless you mind your Ps and Qs to a T.
Which is exactly the point...
As for the whole drunken driving thing - what if it hadn't been you, but a drunk driver who later killed a loved one. Would the cop have been over the top then?
Rather, the complainer was doing something suspicious or illegal and is miffed because they got called on it.
Grow up.
Hmph,
The police in my area are VERY over the top indeed. Why just last night I had been haning out with some friends at the mall, and on the way home we stopped next to a patrol car at a stop light.
Because of the over zelous policemen, I have become frightened of them. Well, I wasn't paying attention to the light, so I didn't start when it turned green. Then I went slow so the cop would pass me, but he didn't so I turned on my blinker to turn off on a road to let him pass because I was becoming increasingly nervous.
So if the cops in your area are like that, then you are screwed, unless you mind your Ps and Qs to a T.
Nick! :)
Ted Marshall wrote: tree68 wrote: Try to look at it from the point of view of the cop.Ever been to a train-pedestrian accident? Or even a car-pedestrian accident? I have. Not pretty.Or how about the two state troopers who arrived just in time to witness a distressed boyfriend pump four shotgun rounds into the girlfriend who was breaking up with him. Right before he killed himself. I didn't enjoy identifying the girl, I want to tell you. Especially because she was a friend of my son. Was she there of her own free will?While I can't deny that certain folks seem to attract police scrutiny, and sometimes that scrutiny is unwarranted, usually it is warranted.The police activities you are taking exception to are simply the officers doing the job we pay them to do. Be glad. One of these days their attention to detail may just save your tail. Well put Larry. Those are all very good points you made. We can't be too critical of someone doing their job. It's a fact that today's law officers have a lot on their plates so it should come as no surprise that they're going to check you out if you look like you don't belong whether it's by the tracks, in a parking lot somewhere or on the sidewalk in front of your own home. If I could offer a suggestion to reduce the likelyhood of being 'hassled' it would be to dress the part when railfanning, especially if you're going to find yourself on railroad property or in a bad part of town adjacent to railroad property. By this, I mean wearing jeans vs. shorts, steel toe boots vs. sneakers or flip-flops, safety glasses and a reflective safety vest. It's been my experience that by dressing safely and conspicuously the authorities and otherwise undesired company (bums, transients, hoodlums, etc.) tend to leave me alone and the train crews usually give me a big wave or a toot on the horn. You may think that's a little over the top, perhaps it is, but it works for me. I draw the line at wearing a hard hat though... That would definitely be over the top, pun intended. To the moderators... I'm sorry about the wave reference, please don't lock the thread as a result.
tree68 wrote: Try to look at it from the point of view of the cop.Ever been to a train-pedestrian accident? Or even a car-pedestrian accident? I have. Not pretty.Or how about the two state troopers who arrived just in time to witness a distressed boyfriend pump four shotgun rounds into the girlfriend who was breaking up with him. Right before he killed himself. I didn't enjoy identifying the girl, I want to tell you. Especially because she was a friend of my son. Was she there of her own free will?While I can't deny that certain folks seem to attract police scrutiny, and sometimes that scrutiny is unwarranted, usually it is warranted.The police activities you are taking exception to are simply the officers doing the job we pay them to do. Be glad. One of these days their attention to detail may just save your tail.
Try to look at it from the point of view of the cop.
Ever been to a train-pedestrian accident? Or even a car-pedestrian accident? I have. Not pretty.
Or how about the two state troopers who arrived just in time to witness a distressed boyfriend pump four shotgun rounds into the girlfriend who was breaking up with him. Right before he killed himself. I didn't enjoy identifying the girl, I want to tell you. Especially because she was a friend of my son. Was she there of her own free will?
While I can't deny that certain folks seem to attract police scrutiny, and sometimes that scrutiny is unwarranted, usually it is warranted.
The police activities you are taking exception to are simply the officers doing the job we pay them to do. Be glad. One of these days their attention to detail may just save your tail.
Well put Larry. Those are all very good points you made. We can't be too critical of someone doing their job. It's a fact that today's law officers have a lot on their plates so it should come as no surprise that they're going to check you out if you look like you don't belong whether it's by the tracks, in a parking lot somewhere or on the sidewalk in front of your own home.
To the moderators... I'm sorry about the wave reference, please don't lock the thread as a result.
Well put, because if I rolled by you and you were wearing the traditional railroad safty garb, I wouldn't think anything about it either. I think the problem you would have, if an officer knew what to ask for, is for some form of company ID. Than you would have more explaining to do.
I also believe you wasn't "hassled" at all, he was looking at an abandoned vehicle, or more correctly, doing what we pay him to do. You didn't mention being cited, just advised of the law, so I would have to say he helped you out.
Mr_Ash wrote: its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now.
its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now.
Oh please - it depends on the situation. Were it an operating line, then yes, you could expect to be arrested and with good reason. If it's obviously an abandoned line, especially one that's been scrapped, and you pick up a spike or an old sign that was discarded, I really doubt a cop is going to put you in jail for that. Yes, the cop was indeed doing his job, but police are human too and they don't look forward to booking someone for picking up junk, with all the attendant paperwork involved, when there are much bigger fish to fry. Obviously this particular officer could've, if he wanted to, run you and your friend in for trespassing but he didn't because he didn't feel you were up to no good and there was no point in doing so. Cops know the neighborhoods and communities.
Ted Marshall wrote: To the moderators... I'm sorry about the wave reference, please don't lock the thread as a result.
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