So, yesterday evening my girlfriend and I decided to walk an old abandoned set of branch /shortline track to trace it to where it used to connect to a NYC mainline. I had been wanting to walk this section of track for a while because part of it runs directly behind my house, and I had been curious about when it was last used, how much, etc..
On our way back to the car, I see a police cruiser waiting on us, and of course he wanted to know what we were up to. I explained that we were just walking the tracks, and he said for "future reference" (maybe he had noticed me railfanning other areas around town, I don't know) that I couldn't walk the tracks because it was criminal trespassing, and that I didn't even have the right to park my car on the side of the street where I did.
Not wanting to argue with a police officer, I politely said "yes sir, officer" and he went along his way. But, is he right?? Because people around the country railfan and walk tracks.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe the land the tracks were on was now owned by a private company (the tracks go between two businesses in an industrial complex, although they are spaced fairaly far apart from each one) since the tracks were abandoned.
Or, is railfanning actually illegal and just not enforced in most areas?
If any of you could shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I really don't want to quit watching trains, I guess if I keep getting hassled I'll just have to drive further off into other towns where the tracks run.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Railfanning illegal??? ah no.However tresspassing is. If you mind your maners and take pictures and leave footprints you should be fine.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
The long and short of it is that yes, you were tresspassing. Railroad property is private property just like any other industry. I am sure a lot of "railfans" break the law to get that perfect shot, among other things.
Now the manner in which you handled the confrontation by the LEO was the correct thing to do as opposed to arguing with them and causing more problems for yourself.
Fallen Flag wrote: The only thing I can think of is that maybe the land the tracks were on was now owned by a private company (the tracks go between two businesses in an industrial complex, although they are spaced fairaly far apart from each one) since the tracks were abandoned.
Doesn't matter who owns the property, it isn't you, so you're trespassing, unless you have explicit permission to be there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I figured I was trespassing to some degree, I just couldn't believe that a LEO would bother to get on me about it. But, I then took a second to realize I do live in a small town where the police literally have nothing better to do.
And I did think about questioning him on the parking comment, but I didn't want to get on his bad side, since this is a small town and if one LEO has it in for you, you're screwed since they'll all probably end up having it in for you.
But, this is nothing new to the girlfriend and I. When her and I were first dating, we were parked in a Best Buy parking lot (we would meet there since we both lived a decent distance away from the nearest mall) after a date, and an LEO questioned us, and on top of that, asked my girlfriend to step out of the car... and I heard him say "m'am, are you here with this gentleman on your own free will?" Good thing I hadn't made her mad! Lol...
Thanks for your replies!
Try to look at it from the point of view of the cop.
Ever been to a train-pedestrian accident? Or even a car-pedestrian accident? I have. Not pretty.
Or how about the two state troopers who arrived just in time to witness a distressed boyfriend pump four shotgun rounds into the girlfriend who was breaking up with him. Right before he killed himself. I didn't enjoy identifying the girl, I want to tell you. Especially because she was a friend of my son. Was she there of her own free will?
While I can't deny that certain folks seem to attract police scrutiny, and sometimes that scrutiny is unwarranted, usually it is warranted.
The police activities you are taking exception to are simply the officers doing the job we pay them to do. Be glad. One of these days their attention to detail may just save your tail.
tree68 wrote: Try to look at it from the point of view of the cop.Ever been to a train-pedestrian accident? Or even a car-pedestrian accident? I have. Not pretty.Or how about the two state troopers who arrived just in time to witness a distressed boyfriend pump four shotgun rounds into the girlfriend who was breaking up with him. Right before he killed himself. I didn't enjoy identifying the girl, I want to tell you. Especially because she was a friend of my son. Was she there of her own free will?While I can't deny that certain folks seem to attract police scrutiny, and sometimes that scrutiny is unwarranted, usually it is warranted.The police activities you are taking exception to are simply the officers doing the job we pay them to do. Be glad. One of these days their attention to detail may just save your tail.
Well put Larry. Those are all very good points you made. We can't be too critical of someone doing their job. It's a fact that today's law officers have a lot on their plates so it should come as no surprise that they're going to check you out if you look like you don't belong whether it's by the tracks, in a parking lot somewhere or on the sidewalk in front of your own home.
If I could offer a suggestion to reduce the likelyhood of being 'hassled' it would be to dress the part when railfanning, especially if you're going to find yourself on railroad property or in a bad part of town adjacent to railroad property. By this, I mean wearing jeans vs. shorts, steel toe boots vs. sneakers or flip-flops, safety glasses and a reflective safety vest. It's been my experience that by dressing safely and conspicuously the authorities and otherwise undesired company (bums, transients, hoodlums, etc.) tend to leave me alone and the train crews usually give me a big wave or a toot on the horn. You may think that's a little over the top, perhaps it is, but it works for me. I draw the line at wearing a hard hat though... That would definitely be over the top, pun intended.
To the moderators... I'm sorry about the wave reference, please don't lock the thread as a result.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now.
Ted Marshall wrote: To the moderators... I'm sorry about the wave reference, please don't lock the thread as a result.
Mr_Ash wrote: its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now.
Oh please - it depends on the situation. Were it an operating line, then yes, you could expect to be arrested and with good reason. If it's obviously an abandoned line, especially one that's been scrapped, and you pick up a spike or an old sign that was discarded, I really doubt a cop is going to put you in jail for that. Yes, the cop was indeed doing his job, but police are human too and they don't look forward to booking someone for picking up junk, with all the attendant paperwork involved, when there are much bigger fish to fry. Obviously this particular officer could've, if he wanted to, run you and your friend in for trespassing but he didn't because he didn't feel you were up to no good and there was no point in doing so. Cops know the neighborhoods and communities.
Ted Marshall wrote: tree68 wrote: Try to look at it from the point of view of the cop.Ever been to a train-pedestrian accident? Or even a car-pedestrian accident? I have. Not pretty.Or how about the two state troopers who arrived just in time to witness a distressed boyfriend pump four shotgun rounds into the girlfriend who was breaking up with him. Right before he killed himself. I didn't enjoy identifying the girl, I want to tell you. Especially because she was a friend of my son. Was she there of her own free will?While I can't deny that certain folks seem to attract police scrutiny, and sometimes that scrutiny is unwarranted, usually it is warranted.The police activities you are taking exception to are simply the officers doing the job we pay them to do. Be glad. One of these days their attention to detail may just save your tail. Well put Larry. Those are all very good points you made. We can't be too critical of someone doing their job. It's a fact that today's law officers have a lot on their plates so it should come as no surprise that they're going to check you out if you look like you don't belong whether it's by the tracks, in a parking lot somewhere or on the sidewalk in front of your own home. If I could offer a suggestion to reduce the likelyhood of being 'hassled' it would be to dress the part when railfanning, especially if you're going to find yourself on railroad property or in a bad part of town adjacent to railroad property. By this, I mean wearing jeans vs. shorts, steel toe boots vs. sneakers or flip-flops, safety glasses and a reflective safety vest. It's been my experience that by dressing safely and conspicuously the authorities and otherwise undesired company (bums, transients, hoodlums, etc.) tend to leave me alone and the train crews usually give me a big wave or a toot on the horn. You may think that's a little over the top, perhaps it is, but it works for me. I draw the line at wearing a hard hat though... That would definitely be over the top, pun intended. To the moderators... I'm sorry about the wave reference, please don't lock the thread as a result.
Well put, because if I rolled by you and you were wearing the traditional railroad safty garb, I wouldn't think anything about it either. I think the problem you would have, if an officer knew what to ask for, is for some form of company ID. Than you would have more explaining to do.
I also believe you wasn't "hassled" at all, he was looking at an abandoned vehicle, or more correctly, doing what we pay him to do. You didn't mention being cited, just advised of the law, so I would have to say he helped you out.
Hmph,
The police in my area are VERY over the top indeed. Why just last night I had been haning out with some friends at the mall, and on the way home we stopped next to a patrol car at a stop light.
Because of the over zelous policemen, I have become frightened of them. Well, I wasn't paying attention to the light, so I didn't start when it turned green. Then I went slow so the cop would pass me, but he didn't so I turned on my blinker to turn off on a road to let him pass because I was becoming increasingly nervous.
THEN, he turned on the lights and pulled us over. He thought I was drunk and and made me get out and walk in a straight line, even after my completely plausible explanation that we weren't paying attention at the light because we were laughing and I was going slow because he was making me nervous. THEN, he tried to make me say the ABC's backwards, which I can't do sober, and he started laughing and told me to go home.
The freakin cop didn't even ask for my liscense of registration. I think he was just bored and needed a laugh. Needless to say I told me dad and that officer no longer has a job. Turns out he has done it before.
So if the cops in your area are like that, then you are screwed, unless you mind your Ps and Qs to a T.
Cheese
Nick! :)
Cheese wrote: ...unless you mind your Ps and Qs to a T.
...unless you mind your Ps and Qs to a T.
Which is exactly the point...
As for the whole drunken driving thing - what if it hadn't been you, but a drunk driver who later killed a loved one. Would the cop have been over the top then?
Something I haven't much of in any threads like this was "I was standing on a public sidewalk, watching the train go by/taking pictures/etc, and a cop came up and hassled me."
Rather, the complainer was doing something suspicious or illegal and is miffed because they got called on it.
Grow up.
tree68 wrote: Something I haven't much of in any threads like this was "I was standing on a public sidewalk, watching the train go by/taking pictures/etc, and a cop came up and hassled me."
Well, I could regale you with a few personal stories that have "in a public place and being hassled" as the central theme.
But if I (or others) do so, I believe this thread might degenerate into a civil liberties (or lack thereof) argument, similar to previous threads on this subject.
WIAR wrote: Mr_Ash wrote:its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now. Oh please - it depends on the situation. Were it an operating line, then yes, you could expect to be arrested and with good reason. If it's obviously an abandoned line, especially one that's been scrapped, and you pick up a spike or an old sign that was discarded, I really doubt a cop is going to put you in jail for that. Yes, the cop was indeed doing his job, but police are human too and they don't look forward to booking someone for picking up junk, with all the attendant paperwork involved, when there are much bigger fish to fry. Obviously this particular officer could've, if he wanted to, run you and your friend in for trespassing but he didn't because he didn't feel you were up to no good and there was no point in doing so. Cops know the neighborhoods and communities.
Mr_Ash wrote:its not like people dont park along the tracks and go steal stuff these days, he's not hassling you he's doing his job. If you had pockets full of spikes you would be in jail right now.
Cheese wrote:The police in my area are VERY over the top indeed. Why just last night I had been haning out with some friends at the mall, and on the way home we stopped next to a patrol car at a stop light.Because of the over zelous policemen, I have become frightened of them. Well, I wasn't paying attention to the light, so I didn't start when it turned green. Then I went slow so the cop would pass me, but he didn't so I turned on my blinker to turn off on a road to let him pass because I was becoming increasingly nervous.THEN, he turned on the lights and pulled us over. He thought I was drunk and and made me get out and walk in a straight line, even after my completely plausible explanation that we weren't paying attention at the light because we were laughing and I was going slow because he was making me nervous. THEN, he tried to make me say the ABC's backwards, which I can't do sober, and he started laughing and told me to go home. The freakin cop didn't even ask for my liscense of registration. I think he was just bored and needed a laugh.
Cheese wrote: Needless to say I told me dad and that officer no longer has a job. Turns out he has done it before.
Ted Marshall wrote:If I could offer a suggestion to reduce the likelyhood of being 'hassled' it would be to dress the part when railfanning, especially if you're going to find yourself on railroad property or in a bad part of town adjacent to railroad property. By this, I mean wearing jeans vs. shorts, steel toe boots vs. sneakers or flip-flops, safety glasses and a reflective safety vest. It's been my experience that by dressing safely and conspicuously the authorities and otherwise undesired company (bums, transients, hoodlums, etc.) tend to leave me alone and the train crews usually give me a big wave or a toot on the horn. You may think that's a little over the top, perhaps it is, but it works for me. I draw the line at wearing a hard hat though... That would definitely be over the top, pun intended.
A shirt with a train photo or a railroad logo would help too, provided it doesn't look like you're trying to pretend you're working for that railroad... that would be hard to explain. You could put a rolled up TRAINS magazine in your back pocket too...
Fallen Flag wrote: On our way back to the car, I see a police cruiser waiting on us, and of course he wanted to know what we were up to. I explained that we were just walking the tracks, and he said for "future reference" (maybe he had noticed me railfanning other areas around town, I don't know) that I couldn't walk the tracks because it was criminal trespassing, and that I didn't even have the right to park my car on the side of the street where I did.
Did he wave? lol.
Cheese wrote: THEN, he turned on the lights and pulled us over. He thought I was drunk and and made me get out and walk in a straight line, even after my completely plausible explanation that we weren't paying attention at the light because we were laughing and I was going slow because he was making me nervous. THEN, he tried to make me say the ABC's backwards, which I can't do sober, and he started laughing and told me to go home. The freakin cop didn't even ask for my liscense of registration. I think he was just bored and needed a laugh. Needless to say I told me dad and that officer no longer has a job. Turns out he has done it before.Cheese
Cheese, it wasn't that long ago in this forum that you stated that you couldn't be a full member of the local model railroad club because they kept beer in the refrigerator and you weren't old enough to drink. So how are you able to discern and speak so forcefully on what you can do sober vs how you would function on the test when inebriated? Failing to go when the light turns green, driving unusually slow for conditions, and turning in an obvious attempt to lose a trailing police car constitute what is called "reasonable suspicion" in the law enforcement community, and is most certainly legal cause to stop the car and check the driver. The "freakin cops" (to use your term) have statistics on the % of drivers who exhibit the behaviors that you describe that are under the influence, and when more than one of them appear I would expect the officer to investigate. [I was an urban police officer for 30+ years, retiring at the rank of Captain.] Not sure who "Daddy" is and why it would listen to such stuff, but no officer in your city or county gets fired for the behavior you describe.
On to a more positive note: I have an old copy of "NWI's Guide to Railfan Photography" that I usually throw up in the dash when out taking pictures. It resolves a lot of concern before it gets started. A recent issue of "Railfan" magazine would likely do just as well.
Bill
TrainManTy wrote:A shirt with a train photo or a railroad logo would help too, provided it doesn't look like you're trying to pretend you're working for that railroad... that would be hard to explain. You could put a rolled up TRAINS magazine in your back pocket too...
And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
trainboyH16-44 wrote: And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer
Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera...
To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann wrote:To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
+1
Dan
CNW 6000 wrote: zugmann wrote:To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done. +1
+2... and allow me to add that dressing in safety attire does not constitute impersonation of a railroad employee, it is merely a clear attempt at being safe and that's the explanation I would give if asked. Telling someone that you're a railroad employee is what will get you in trouble.
zugmann wrote:Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera...
Oh dear... I think I resemble that remark...
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
zugmann wrote: trainboyH16-44 wrote: And then there are those of us who have decided to try not to actively look like a foamer Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera... To Fallen Flag: get over yourself. You were not hassled. Just informed that you were, in fact, on private property. You were told, and you walked away without being tasered or handcuffed. So all in all, I say a day well done.
To add to this---You might not think you look like a, "foamer," but trust me, we know you when we see you. No offense meant; these are just the facts.
wsherrick wrote: To add to this---You might not think you look like a, "foamer," but trust me, we know you when we see you. No offense meant; these are just the facts.
I've been told that the surest way to spot a foamer is to look into the mirror.
CopCarSS wrote: zugmann wrote:Actually, the ones that try not to look like foamers end up looking like the biggest foamers of all. They don't wear a RR T-shirt, yet are taking photos of common trains with a $5000, 45-lbcamera... Oh dear... I think I resemble that remark...
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