Writing is "painting with words", and frankly, no formal education is needed. Some people are just "born to it", while others learn it, and still others, don't have it. The fact that some people can't write creatively....there is a difference between being able to communicate via writing, and "writing", doesn't diminish their intellgence, skill, or education level. It's just something they are not good at, as much as the same as I am not very good with repairing mechanical things, or working with tools. Can I build something? Sure, but it lacks a certain elegance, and a certain look. It's rough, unfinished, and not something I would display in my home. My brother who is a carpenter of 20+ years, can build the same thing I do, and make it look awesome. However, I could pen a story of twenty pages in a couple of hours, where he would struggle to come up with 2 pages in the same time. Is he "uneducated"? No, of course not, he is every bit as intelligent as I am, our talents just happen to lie in different directions. His ability to build and construct with wood is on par with my ability to construct pictures with words. On the level of photography, however, we are about equal.
Creative, and artistic people see the world with a different set of "eyes". I really can't explain it, but my mind is continually working, even when I am doing something. I have two minds, really, one that is on the task at hand, and another, that wanders all over a manner of places, subjects, and ideas. Everyone is born with different skills and abilities, that's really all there is to it.
chad thomas wrote:Hey Dan, good to see you still pop in here.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Steam Is King wrote: I was not deriding railroaders.
I was not deriding railroaders.
Funny, that's how it came across.
While an advanced degree does not make a great writer, the presumption that a class of people does not possess that skill or higher learning is equally flawed. Plenty of folks out there do jobs they like that may not traditionally correspond to the level of formal education.
But what do I know...heck I'll just go back to bitterly clinging to my guns, trains and religion.
Dan
"Of course there are always a few exceptions whose skills surpass their position, ..."
Wow, class bigotry, haven't seen that in...well, at least 6 or 7 postings.
Guess we needed you to point out our position, and remind us not to exceed it.
Thanks for the tip.
"You'll note I wrote "consistently strong writing skills" which translates to "not all-inclusive".
I didn't realize you could translate English into...english.
Wouldn't it have been better if you had simply written what you meant in the fist place, instead of having to "translate" or edit?
"I don't see how having a Masters degree in English equates to being a good writer".
Well, it seems you don't see how being an engineer or a yardman could equate to being a good writer either, so we will wait for you to explain what constitutes a "good writer" and what position they come from, although being a "good writer" is a completely subjective concept.
"In fact, some of the greatest writers of all time were not English or Journalism majors. You could look it up."
Ok, then what were they?
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
At first, you state that not having a formal education and having a blue collar job means we can't be "good writers" because of our position.
Then you follow it up with the statement that having a formal education, such as a Masters in English, doesn't help with and isn't necessary in becoming a "Great Writer".
So, you are saying that not having a formal education means you can't write, while having a formal education means you can't write either...
So, what exactly does make a "Good" or "Great" writer?
And which railroader are you referring to in your last line?
Of course, the accolade of "Good Writer" and "Great Writer" are completely subjective, it all depends if you like what they are writing.
Well durn, it seems I surpassed my position, and used words with more than two syllables...all without an editor "dressing it up".
Guess I had better head back to the fussee fight before all the bread sticks get eaten up....
23 17 46 11
wsherrick wrote: Steam Is King wrote:I find it hard to believe railroad engineers and yard workers have such consistently strong writing skills (they could make more $$$ as writers, with less wear and tear on their bodies). Think again before you make assumptions about someone's educational level. I am a locomotive engineer who happens to have a very nice masters degree in English. So I could be knowin' what them there words mean, there good buddy. I guess us blu coller boys are jus too dum to write real good.
Steam Is King wrote:I find it hard to believe railroad engineers and yard workers have such consistently strong writing skills (they could make more $$$ as writers, with less wear and tear on their bodies).
Think again before you make assumptions about someone's educational level. I am a locomotive engineer who happens to have a very nice masters degree in English. So I could be knowin' what them there words mean, there good buddy. I guess us blu coller boys are jus too dum to write real good.
You'll note I wrote "consistently strong writing skills" which translates to "not all-inclusive". Of course there are always a few exceptions whose skills surpass their position, and if you have the degree you claim, you might be one of those exceptions. I don't see how having a Masters degree in English equates to being a good writer. In fact, good writers are born, not made. People with your level of English degree primarily work as editors and teachers (note the word "primarily"). In fact, some of the greatest writers of all time were not English or Journalism majors. You could look it up.
You need to have a chit-chat with the railroader who chimes in here occasionally and has accused others of trying to make themselves "sound big by using big words", good buddy.
Chico
Mookie wrote: I won't speak for Mr. B, but I read the pre-submission and the printed matter. Very minor changes. I also wrote a letter to the magazine on an article that I liked. Very minor changes. Ed is a natural story teller. Why change a good thing?Lighten up folks. We don't want to get to the point where every thread reads like the latest economic rail news. When this forum first started, we took pokes and jabs at each other and had a good time, learned a lot and almost every thread had a point of interest. Everyone has taken a jab at the diner, but you need a place to breathe a little after all the heavy reading going on. People have learned not to go there if they don't like that type of camaraderie. And what will new people think? Well we didn't get to this point with all our numbers by being too stuffy, too stilted and unopinionated. Maybe less yelling and more teaching is needed? There is enough hostility around us each day. Civility should be practiced and remember - there are always two sides to each discussion. We can disagree and remain gentlemen and ladies and keep our dignity.And encourage the new people. Help them, don't constantly critize them or fellow posters. Now who wants to argue ahem, discuss this with me?Mook!
I won't speak for Mr. B, but I read the pre-submission and the printed matter. Very minor changes.
I also wrote a letter to the magazine on an article that I liked. Very minor changes.
Ed is a natural story teller. Why change a good thing?
Lighten up folks. We don't want to get to the point where every thread reads like the latest economic rail news. When this forum first started, we took pokes and jabs at each other and had a good time, learned a lot and almost every thread had a point of interest.
Everyone has taken a jab at the diner, but you need a place to breathe a little after all the heavy reading going on. People have learned not to go there if they don't like that type of camaraderie.
And what will new people think? Well we didn't get to this point with all our numbers by being too stuffy, too stilted and unopinionated. Maybe less yelling and more teaching is needed? There is enough hostility around us each day. Civility should be practiced and remember - there are always two sides to each discussion. We can disagree and remain gentlemen and ladies and keep our dignity.
And encourage the new people. Help them, don't constantly critize them or fellow posters.
Now who wants to argue ahem, discuss this with me?
Mook!
Hello All
I enter this discussion with some trepidation. However Mookie's post and invitation (quoted above) got me thinking about why I continue to read this forum and participate from time to time when I feel I have something to offer which is within my area of competence. My reasons are simple:
1. I enjoy learning and there's a lot to learn from people who have a variety of different railroading experiences from wabash1 to edblysard to MichaelSol to RWM. They all offer me something worth knowing. Like nbrodar and others, railroading is in my family's blood. My father in law worked for CN in Montreal (Pointe St Charles shops) for many years and many of my mother's family were in the running and shop crafts out of St Thomas, Ontario with PM, Wabash, NYC and CN, likewise for many years.
2. I have learned over time to respect the knowledge and views of a variety of different people. For me there is a big difference between being smart and being wise. Some of the most profound lessons I have learned came from people who, I sensed, knew what they were talking about. Their level of formal education (or lack therof) didn't matter. What they offered and how they offered it mattered much more to me. I speak as someone who has several trades qualifications as well as postsecondary degrees with a number of years of experience in each.
3. I still have lots left to learn. For example:The switching exercise with edblysard last summer was for me a highlight. I didn't get to complete the exercise but I learned a lot from Ed and in fact the yard diagrams, switch lists and ed's very pertinant (and gentlemanly) responses to my questions taught me as much as I ever learned in a doctoral graduate seminar. As a matter of fact the material still sits pinned to a bookshelf in my office. I even get to look at on occasion.
4. As Mookie says, and I must say I heartily agree with her, there is enough incivility and hostility around us without us attacking one another in fora such as these. We've got enough wars going on in this world. Please, let's not start others of another sort. I hope this last statement is not seen as naivete on my part; rather I offer it as a plea of sorts: that we honour the purposes of this forum, that we recognize how diverse a group we are and how much we have to learn from another. In so doing I believe we develop a basic and fundamental respect for one another. To do otherwise is to devalue others and ourselves. It's about dignity...a precious commodity nowadays.
Finally, I remind myself regularly, especially when I take myself too seriously: 'Never forget to laugh, especially at myself when necessary....after all I am part of the human race and that is the biggest joke going.'
Charlie
Chilliwack, BC
csxengineer98 wrote: edblysard wrote: Ok, but we will have to duct tape our lanterns to our heads first...Tstage, if you bring bread sticks, we will never get around to much of anything...free food shuts down any railroad.... You wouldn't happen to have any pasta with mushrooms anywhere, would ya? csxengineer98 wrote: BaltACD wrote:Time to duke it out....Brake Sticks at 20 paces....fusses for hand to hand combat would be more intersting... csx engineer the lantern can be used in the other hand like a sheild...and a lit fusse to fight with.. the trainmaster can pretend to be the roman emperer in the stands of the old roman colosseum too.... so true on the free food shutting a termial down..lol..csx engineer
edblysard wrote: Ok, but we will have to duct tape our lanterns to our heads first...Tstage, if you bring bread sticks, we will never get around to much of anything...free food shuts down any railroad.... You wouldn't happen to have any pasta with mushrooms anywhere, would ya? csxengineer98 wrote: BaltACD wrote:Time to duke it out....Brake Sticks at 20 paces....fusses for hand to hand combat would be more intersting... csx engineer
Ok, but we will have to duct tape our lanterns to our heads first...
Tstage, if you bring bread sticks, we will never get around to much of anything...free food shuts down any railroad.... You wouldn't happen to have any pasta with mushrooms anywhere, would ya?
csxengineer98 wrote: BaltACD wrote:Time to duke it out....Brake Sticks at 20 paces....fusses for hand to hand combat would be more intersting... csx engineer
BaltACD wrote:Time to duke it out....Brake Sticks at 20 paces....
csx engineer
so true on the free food shutting a termial down..lol..
Free food I'm their.
Hey,
We can make Tiki torches out of our rule books...
edblysard wrote:Ok, but we will have to duct tape our lanterns to our heads first...Tstage, if you bring bread sticks, we will never get around to much of anything...free food shuts down any railroad.... You wouldn't happen to have any pasta with mushrooms anywhere, would ya? csxengineer98 wrote: BaltACD wrote:Time to duke it out....Brake Sticks at 20 paces....fusses for hand to hand combat would be more intersting... csx engineer
FOLKS!
Enough already.
I made my point.
Let's move on, okay?
Steam Is King wrote: Norman Saxon wrote: Is this the same edblysard who has in the past penned for TRAINS magazine? If you ask me they are two completely different people, just based on what I've seen here so far. My two cents.How well a person writes for submission means nothing. Ever read those stories? They are chosen for story quality, period. They all are pretty much the same style as published. Which means it is a good bet someone's doing some pretty tight editing and cleaning up of copy, because sorry -- I find it hard to believe railroad engineers and yard workers have such consistently strong writing skills (they could make more $$$ as writers, with less wear and tear on their bodies).You have the stories as they appeared in print. Because a person gets a byline does not mean every word is as they laid it down on paper. Might be interesting to see the originals as they were submitted to Kalmbach and before they were edited by a professional. Could be they don't even resemble each other, as far as the verbiage goes.Chico - now using dictation software so I don't have to type anymore.
Norman Saxon wrote: Is this the same edblysard who has in the past penned for TRAINS magazine? If you ask me they are two completely different people, just based on what I've seen here so far. My two cents.
Is this the same edblysard who has in the past penned for TRAINS magazine? If you ask me they are two completely different people, just based on what I've seen here so far. My two cents.
How well a person writes for submission means nothing. Ever read those stories? They are chosen for story quality, period. They all are pretty much the same style as published. Which means it is a good bet someone's doing some pretty tight editing and cleaning up of copy, because sorry -- I find it hard to believe railroad engineers and yard workers have such consistently strong writing skills (they could make more $$$ as writers, with less wear and tear on their bodies).
You have the stories as they appeared in print. Because a person gets a byline does not mean every word is as they laid it down on paper. Might be interesting to see the originals as they were submitted to Kalmbach and before they were edited by a professional. Could be they don't even resemble each other, as far as the verbiage goes.
Chico - now using dictation software so I don't have to type anymore.
How 'bout bread sticks at 20 paces?
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Slow down here - I'm a student conductor now and I'm taking notes....
Lessee - not break a sweat, look good.....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
wabash1 wrote: Sorry i was not culture enough so you guys could understand, In a nut shell my post was this. Bergie has messaged me saying that my post was enjoyable, and after the last maderator edited my post over something i said that purely and was a direct smack in the face of someone on this forum but left his remarks in tact which was what caused the attack in the first place . that i was turned in and scolded for my remarks. that was it but in the closing i basicly I will post with out BS what i think when i either get attacked or if someone is spreading the BS thick. and i wont sugar coat it. and if it gets me suspeneded then so be it. that is what i said. Now for you guys thinking what your going to do to get me suspended. your not that smart. Hey ED We want the conductors to look thier best when they go to the hospital from exhaustion from throwing thier weight around dodging the resposibility back stabing . oh and heaven forbid they do something to sweat.... but we alwasy haft to wake them up first.Mookie when you going to come ride my train heck you can even run ill sitr on the other side and look in the mirror
Sorry i was not culture enough so you guys could understand, In a nut shell my post was this. Bergie has messaged me saying that my post was enjoyable, and after the last maderator edited my post over something i said that purely and was a direct smack in the face of someone on this forum but left his remarks in tact which was what caused the attack in the first place . that i was turned in and scolded for my remarks. that was it but in the closing i basicly I will post with out BS what i think when i either get attacked or if someone is spreading the BS thick. and i wont sugar coat it. and if it gets me suspeneded then so be it. that is what i said. Now for you guys thinking what your going to do to get me suspended. your not that smart.
Hey ED We want the conductors to look thier best when they go to the hospital from exhaustion from throwing thier weight around dodging the resposibility back stabing . oh and heaven forbid they do something to sweat.... but we alwasy haft to wake them up first.
Mookie when you going to come ride my train heck you can even run ill sitr on the other side and look in the mirror
Bucyrus wrote:Why should this thread be locked instead of just being allowed to run its course? I think that it has been an unusually interesting and informative thread.
Funny, I tought it had run its course.
That's the challenge of trying to keep things on topic, I guess. Whenever a thread like this comes up (in which people are offering their opinion on how things work around here), I always value the input from our readers. But at some point, I start thinking of the perception that a newcomer would get if he stumbled upon the site today and starting poking around the forum. The way it stands, from the eyes of a newcomer, you'd think this forum was the worst thing to ever hit the Internet. That's why I typically lock something like this (especially when it's after a day or so). At some point we have to move on. Plus, the more we post to this, the more it stays on the first page and the more newcomers can become turned off to the notion of participating around here.
I hope you can appreciate the balancing act I'm trying to do here... Listening to the input of my valued users (again, your views help set the tone and policies) while also looking out for our future development (i.e. newcomers).
Bergie
tree68 wrote:Can't lock it - someone will start a new thread about how this one got locked....
I think that's an accurate prediction. But there's another reason why I think that this discussion should be allowed to continue. I believe that it's the socially responsible thing for Trains to do.
I base that belief on an opinion column by Daniel Henninger in the 4-13-06 edition of the Wall Street Journal. It's entitled "When Blogs Rule We Will All Talk Like ---".
Here are two excerpts. . .
"There is one more personality trait common to the blogosphere that, like crabgrass, may be spreading to touch and cover everything. It's call disinhibition. Briefly, disinhibition is what the world would look like if everyone behaved like Jerry Lewis or Paris Hilton or we all lived in South Park."
"The blogosphere is also the product not of people meeting, but venting alone at a keyboard with all the uninhibited, bat-out-of-hell hyperbole of thinking, suggestion and expression that this new technology seems to release. As populist psychiatry, maybe this is a good thing; the Web allows large numbers of people to contribute to others' therapy. It takes a village."
Based on Mr. Henninger's reasoning, this discussion has to be doing a whole lot of good for a significant number of people; and I think that it would be a real shame to discontinue that process.
Bergie wrote:Are we ready to discuss railroading again anytime soon, or shall we keep this thread unlocked (on principle, mind you... to make sure everyone stays happy) so we can keep whippin' this dead horse? Bergie
Can't lock it - someone will start a new thread about how this one got locked....
zugmann wrote: CNW 6000 wrote:It's been said before:This is their pond and their rules. Swim by them or find another one is my thought. But such an attitude has also closed many a forum before. Just like life - there are going to be posts people don't agree with. I wish people just had the maturity to turn away and not go whining to the moderators if they feel "offended".
CNW 6000 wrote:It's been said before:This is their pond and their rules. Swim by them or find another one is my thought.
But such an attitude has also closed many a forum before. Just like life - there are going to be posts people don't agree with. I wish people just had the maturity to turn away and not go whining to the moderators if they feel "offended".
I wish people had the ability to turn and walk away from a thread instead of getting caught up in the middle of a chest-pounding competition.
Our greatest asset is the diverse group of members we have: railroad blue collar, railroad white collar, railroad consultants, railroad enthusiasts, etc. However, its because of that vast diversity that we also have vast differences of opinion at times. If we can keep everything constructive and above the table while a debate unfolds, the forum succeeds. When we stoop to "You're an idiot and don't know what you're talking about" type of comments, the forum starts to erupt. Do I blame someone for reporting something like that? No, not really. They probably enjoy the forum when it's running smoothly, not when it's turning into a battle of wits.
It's our readers that drive a lot of what goes on around here. You've helped me form the policies (including no advertising, no religion, and no politics) and you also help us keep an eye on threads that are on the verge of exploding.
I've said it before and I'll say it again... there is no sure-fire playbook for forum moderation. Especially when you have the vast differences in backgrounds that I mentioned above. Some forums can maintain a steady path because everyone is on the same page... here, it's a little different. There will be differences of opinion... it's how we manage those differences in a civil manner that makes the forum successful.
Just my two cents.
Are we ready to discuss railroading again anytime soon, or shall we keep this thread unlocked (on principle, mind you... to make sure everyone stays happy) so we can keep whippin' this dead horse?
Wabash! You're on!
Mook
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