Railroading is a fascinating business combining engineering, mechanics, marketing, geography, geology, and tons of other sciences and arts.
To me one of the more fascinating aspects of the industry is the number and types of maps and charts. As a kid who liked National Geographic for the maps as well as the photos, railroading was an early attraction.
A couple of questions about control points. On certain railroads these are assigned an alpha code and other railroads the points are assigned a numerical identification (based on mileposts).
What are the benefits and advantages of both assignments? and, who gets the authority to name the control points.
For instance, in Decatur there is a Control Point where the St. Louis line diverges from the Hannibal line. The Control Point carries my last name, which is not a common name, but has some local representation. How could one find out who named that point and the significance of that naming?
Closer to home the NS line here in NW Indiana has a siding called Nickel, which is an interesting name, being the original line was the Nickle Plate...note the difference in spelling.
ed
Someone with a lot of authority at the railroad gets to name timetable stations and their respective CPs, that's who. Names might be suggested by the minions responsible for designing the signal system, but the proposal always goes to higher authority for approval.
On a railroad with a computer-supported CTC system, no two control points can have the same name, because that would create a computer code conflict. It wouldn't know which address to send the command to. It's not a good idea even without that issue to have two CPs with the same name anywhere near each other -- certainly not on the same subdivision or in the same dispatching office, as confusion creates risk, and risk creates dead bodies.
Railroads now like to use CPs that are numbered based on mileposts. As a result of mergers railroads have many lines with the same milepost scheme. Even railroads like SP with 0.0 at the Ferry Building in San Francisco, and everything further away counted upward (with a few exceptions), there would be multiple "milepost 212" locations. So an alpha character is added to the mileposts to give each line a unique scheme. Thus, for an imaginary scheme on a fictional SP, CP A212 would be on the Overland Route, B212 on the Shasta Route, C212 on the San Joaquin, D212 on the Coast Line, and so forth.
Many timetable stations are named for retired or deceased officials to commemorate their dedication to the service.
I recently named, on paper, several timetable stations on a railroad line that is proposed to be built. I'm waiting to see if they stick all the way through construction, or beyond it. Probably someone More Important Than Me will realize that the names I chose are by no means etched in stone and think of something more to their liking than the long-ago railroaders I chose to commemorate with my naming scheme.
RWM
RWM:You must have enjoyed assigning names. Were the names appropriately named for the railroad in question?
I name controll points.... me all alone....nobody else but me...Just me....
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Cumbres means summit so it may have no relationship whatsoever to the Rio Grande.
Calling it "Cumbres Pass" then is about as redundant as "Sierra Nevada Mountains"
MP173-now I know what your last name is....
As for that location, the correct name was supposed to be Mercer. Named for the street that passes underneath the junction. The story goes as the control point was being named someone incorrectly copied down the name as the two sound basically the same. The mistake wasn't caught until after all the appropiate paper work had been approved. The signs were also already ordered. And so in a twist of fate your name became the name of this junction. But you can always make up a story and say it was some prominent relative of yours.
A few years back NS changed the names of the sidings and control points on the Illinois division. So instead of East Harristown and West Harristown you now have Righter and Harristown. Righter was the last name of a dispatcher at the time. The man in charge of the signal department got to decide names. And when he ran out of dispatcher names he came up with something to his own liking. This man was an avid hunter and gun collector. So several control points are named after guns. NS now has control points like Ruger, Winston, Colt, Browning etc...
Railway Man wrote:Cumbres means summit so it may have no relationship whatsoever to the Rio Grande.
Since I know who picked that name (and know his sense of humor), it is pretty safe to say that it was named after the pass on the Rio Grande.
DPI:Thanks for the info for "CP Mosser". About 10 years ago I was driving thru Decatur, probably coming up Rt 48 when I saw the sign. Could never figure out how to find out...who to contact at NS. So, for 10 years it just swims around in my mind and then I ask the question and within a couple of hours the answer is provided. Amazing.
Years ago Millikin University had a pretty good little point guard named Roy Mosser and with the junction being adjacent to the university, perhaps it was named after him. He is currently a real estate developer in the area.
Interesting story about the names of firearms. Looking at the Springfield - Hannibal Division, there is a "Holliday". Was that named after Doc Holliday?
Again, thanks for the info.
The CSX Montreal sub is all dark territory. All of the control points/block stations have names, not numbers. Most are somehow related to the specific area (PHIL = Philadelphia, RIVER=Indian River, BRAD=Bradley Street,RICH = Richland) but the rationale for some is less obvious, probably rooted in some former landmark or other significance (or a surveyor). I still haven't figured out "ROOTS," and "KANE" has me scratching my head, too. I figure "ROCK" has to do with a big rock or maybe a cut. I haven't been there to check, but it figures regularly into EC-1's.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Another point of interest is a couple of control points on the east leg of the UP Phoenix Line, both in Mesa, AZ. The first one is called "McQueen", and nearby is a road named McQueen (running south from Baseline through Chandler and beyond). Another CP is called Germann (Ger-MAN not Ger-MAINE), and there is a corresponding city road named Germann.
In both cases above, it would appear that the railroad CPs lent their names to the city streets mentioned above, as none of the roads existed when the railroad was built.
An exception would be Higley - even though the CP corresponds with a city road by that name, both are named after a small town they are in.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The moral of the story is dont name something after someone until they have gracefully retired.
Out this away, CP are named after geographic features...
On the main where CPs are farther apart, the CP is generally named after the town it's located in. CP King - King of Prussia; CP Norris - Norristown; CP Phoenix - Phoenixville.
Where CPs are closer together, they are named after nearby streets: CP Gray - Grays Ferry Ave; CP Penrose - Penrose Ave. Or nearby landmarks: CP Field - Franklin Field; CP Park - Farmont Park; CP Zoo - the Philadelphia Zoo.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I have long secretly hoped that UP would name a point on its ex-SP trackage CP Huntington.It would be a perfect fit!
I'm new to the forum and the daughter of Dispatcher Robert M Righter for whom the signal mentioned above was named for. My late father, grandfather - Merle - and my unle Walter all worked their whole lives for the Wabash - Norfolk and Western and later Norfolk Southern RailRoads and were huge enthusiastic Railroad historians and collectors of memorabilia. I just recently learned about the Righter Signal and I'd love to obtain a photo of a train passing through that signal to frame for my brother and aunt.
Grandfather literally had a heart attack and died on the tracks with my father working alongside so I cant think of a better signal name! He loved Rairoading as does our entire family as it literally formed a large part of our heritage and a favorite passtime to discuss the old and new trains. Our favorite was the old Bluebird and my favorite was the old style conductors and the fine dining cars - my father collected the Wabash China as well as anything else he could find.
If anyone could provide a photo I'd gladly pay for printing or rights to make a copy And Ill share what photos i have.
Cheers!
Jeanne
Cjrighter@gmail.com
Welcome, Jeanne! I appreciate the knowledge you have given us concerning men who have worked in this wonderful industry.
Johnny
There are three places on the Lake Division of NS that are named for T&E personnel, all on the New Castle District. One is Bath, at Muncie, IN, so named because of an engineer that had a lot of trouble at that location. Another is Bailey, near Hagerstown, IN, named for an engineer who passed away at only age 42, about the time the passing track there was completed. The third is Yorkpoint, named for a trainman who lost his life in the line of duty.
Drake is the location on the Union Belt in Fort Wayne that was referred to in a preceding post by rrnut282, he was once Division Engineer of the Lake Division and went on to become head of engineering for the system, IIRC.
Who picks the names: Usually the operating bubbas.
(The same ones that renumber mileposts because the simpletons are lacking in basic math [What happened between Denver and Pueblo]. No concern for the historical or legal consequences, they've got their simple little blinders on.)
If you look at a railroad R/W map, you will see plenty of former station and control point names that have disappeared. You will also see where timetable names and geographical names are different, many times with the railroad using the older name. As for family names, mine is just down the road from Lizard Acres, AZ (ATSF), Stone Mtn.GA (SCL) Palestine, TX (MoP) and Soldier Summit, UT (DRGW)...no idea what long lost part of the family they came from. I'm the first and last known railroader in my tribe.
mudchicken Who picks the names: Usually the operating bubbas. (The same ones that renumber mileposts because the simpletons are lacking in basic math [What happened between Denver and Pueblo]. No concern for the historical or legal consequences, they've got their simple little blinders on.) If you look at a railroad R/W map, you will see plenty of former station and control point names that have disappeared. You will also see where timetable names and geographical names are different, many times with the railroad using the older name. As for family names, mine is just down the road from Lizard Acres, AZ (ATSF), Stone Mtn.GA (SCL) Palestine, TX (MoP) and Soldier Summit, UT (DRGW)...no idea what long lost part of the family they came from. I'm the first and last known railroader in my tribe.
As to Stone Mountain, Ga., I always understood that it is named for the large bubble of granite named "Stone Mountain" (the one with the carving of General Lee and his lieutenants on one side). I have climbed to its top.
JD - That's more like a line change of of the original lines. The re-mileposting South of Grand Junction on the North Fork & Montrose Subs is more to the point. In 1901, D&RG reset their mileposts to correct for errors and line changes, but they kept some uniformity and they had guidelines. After the mergers, the Ops bubbas made a shamble of things south of Grand Junction. There are places on the North Fork lline where the "true" location is subject to a 500 foot +/- judgement call (read W-A-G... Some places got new mileposts on old signposts, some went in by truck odometer and some are anybody's guess). The Joint Line had some rules, but the imposition of C&S mileposts on the Ex-ATSF line created additional conflicts with the ex-DRGW line sometimes less than 100 feet away.
Thanks, MC. I thought that what it, and the ACL discrepany were--that is quite a relocation in both instances. You had to read the special instructions to catch them.
I liked the way the SP showed the relocation differences--two listings for the mp at stations/CPs. The SFe and BN are more subtle--you have to compare the distances between the points and the mileposts for the points.
By the way, do you get over here? If you do, I would be glad if you could come by.
Cjrighter Righter Signal
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