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Who names control points?

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, December 11, 2015 8:52 PM

MikeF90
 
 

A UP example: here in SoCal they have two CPs named 'North Montclair', only the designator (AL517/AL519) is different. Also, CP Ontario is close to CP North Ontario but on different subs. 

On the UP the name doesn't matter. Only the CP number (CP AL517 or CP AL519 per the examples given) is used in official capacity for main track authorizations (track warrants, track permits, track and time and foul time) or flagging trains past a stop signal.  The names are used only in conversation.

Jeff

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Posted by pbouzide on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 7:22 PM

I remember that wreck. Was living in Chicago at the time. That's a hilarious anecdote attached to a pretty ugly incident. Miraculous that no lives were lost.

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Posted by MP173 on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 4:02 PM

Always fun to see old threads given a new shot of adrelinline.

The next time I am in Decatur, I might attempt to sneak onto the ROW and snap a photo of my namesake CP, even tho it was a mistake.

There is a signal on the CSX here in NW Indiana.  Several years ago there was a nasty 3 train pileup when a train crew ran thru signals and struck a sitting empty ethanol train at 43mph.  Along came another train on the adjacent track and there was quite a mess to clean up....fortunately no lives were lost.

Occasionally a CSX crewman will call the signal with the normal sequence and add "at the Green mile".  When one reads the STB report of the accident, it becomes obvious why the nickname "Green mile" has evolved.  The engineer's name of the train which ran the signals is named Green.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:57 PM

MikeF90
Hmm. I would have guessed some high level 'desk jockey' who never talks on the radio. Similar / identical / long names sounds like a recipe for confusion and time consuming readbacks.

I've usually found that such names are downright cryptic.  One word, and sometimes even that's truncated.  F'rinstance, the block station just north of Holland Patent is simply "PAT."

CPs on the Chicago Line in NY seem to simply be mileposts.

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Posted by MikeF90 on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:51 PM

mudchicken
Who picks the names: Usually the operating bubbas.

Hmm. I would have guessed some high level 'desk jockey' who never talks on the radio. Similar / identical / long names sounds like a recipe for confusion and time consuming readbacks.

A UP example: here in SoCal they have two CPs named 'North Montclair', only the designator (AL517/AL519) is different. Also, CP Ontario is close to CP North Ontario but on different subs.

New CPs on BNSF don't seem to get names, only numbers e.g. CP 704. More readback bait.

I prefer Metrolink's method to give every CP a unique name, siding CPs included.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 9:25 AM

Thanks, MC. I thought that what it, and the ACL discrepany were--that is quite a relocation in both instances. You had to read the special instructions to catch them.

I liked the way the SP showed the relocation differences--two listings for the mp at stations/CPs. The SFe and BN are more subtle--you have to compare the distances between the points and the mileposts for the points.

By the way, do you get over here? If you do, I would be glad if you could come by.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 12:00 AM

JD -  That's more like a line change of of the original lines. The re-mileposting South of Grand Junction on the North Fork & Montrose Subs is more to the point. In 1901, D&RG reset their mileposts to correct for errors and line changes, but they kept some uniformity and they had guidelines. After the mergers, the Ops bubbas made a shamble of things south of Grand Junction. There are places on the North Fork lline where the "true" location is subject to a 500 foot +/- judgement call (read W-A-G... Some places got new mileposts on old signposts, some went in by truck odometer and some are anybody's guess). The Joint Line had some rules, but the imposition of C&S mileposts on the Ex-ATSF line created additional conflicts with the ex-DRGW line sometimes less than 100 feet away.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:32 PM

mudchicken

Who picks the names: Usually the operating bubbas.

(The same ones that renumber mileposts because the simpletons are lacking in basic math [What happened between Denver and Pueblo]. No concern for the historical or legal consequences, they've got their simple little blinders on.)

If you look at a railroad R/W map, you will see plenty of former station and control point names that have disappeared. You will also see where timetable names and geographical names are different, many times with the railroad using the older name. As for family names, mine is just down the road from Lizard Acres, AZ (ATSF),  Stone Mtn.GA (SCL)  Palestine, TX (MoP) and Soldier Summit, UT (DRGW)...no idea what long lost part of the family they came from. I'm the first and last known railroader in my tribe.

 

MC, is this why it is only 0.7 miles between MP 393 and MP 395 on the Rio Grande's original line to Grand Junction? There is an even greater discrepancy on the ACL's to Tampa: 0.1 mile between MP 768 and MP 771.

As to Stone Mountain, Ga., I always understood that it is named for the large bubble of granite named "Stone Mountain" (the one with the carving of General Lee and his lieutenants on one side). I have climbed to its top. 

Johnny

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:49 PM

Who picks the names: Usually the operating bubbas.

(The same ones that renumber mileposts because the simpletons are lacking in basic math [What happened between Denver and Pueblo]. No concern for the historical or legal consequences, they've got their simple little blinders on.)

If you look at a railroad R/W map, you will see plenty of former station and control point names that have disappeared. You will also see where timetable names and geographical names are different, many times with the railroad using the older name. As for family names, mine is just down the road from Lizard Acres, AZ (ATSF),  Stone Mtn.GA (SCL)  Palestine, TX (MoP) and Soldier Summit, UT (DRGW)...no idea what long lost part of the family they came from. I'm the first and last known railroader in my tribe.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by ValleyX on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:31 PM

There are three places on the Lake Division of NS that are named for T&E personnel, all on the New Castle District.  One is Bath, at Muncie, IN, so named because of an engineer that had a lot of trouble at that location.  Another is Bailey, near Hagerstown, IN, named for an engineer who passed away at only age 42, about the time the passing track there was completed.  The third is Yorkpoint, named for a trainman who lost his life in the line of duty.

Drake is the location on the Union Belt in Fort Wayne that was referred to in a preceding post by rrnut282, he was once Division Engineer of the Lake Division and went on to become head of engineering for the system, IIRC.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 9:46 AM

Welcome, Jeanne!Welcome I appreciate the knowledge you have given us concerning men who have worked in this wonderful industry. 

Johnny

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Posted by Cjrighter on Monday, December 7, 2015 11:16 PM

I'm new to the forum and the daughter of Dispatcher Robert M Righter for whom the signal mentioned above was named for. My late father, grandfather - Merle  - and my unle Walter all worked their whole lives for the Wabash - Norfolk and Western and later Norfolk Southern RailRoads and were huge enthusiastic Railroad historians and collectors of memorabilia. I just recently learned about the Righter Signal and I'd love to obtain a photo of a train passing through that signal to frame for my brother and aunt. 

Grandfather literally had a heart attack and died on the tracks with my father working alongside so I cant think of a better signal name! He loved Rairoading as does our entire family as it literally formed a large part of our heritage and a favorite passtime to discuss the old and new trains. Our favorite was the old Bluebird and my favorite was the old style conductors and the fine dining cars - my father collected the Wabash China as well as anything else he could find. 

If anyone could provide a photo I'd gladly pay for printing or rights to make a copy And Ill share what photos i have. 

Cheers! 

Jeanne

Cjrighter@gmail.com

 

 

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Posted by espeefoamer on Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:51 PM

I have long secretly hoped that UP would name a point on its ex-SP trackage CP Huntington.It would be a perfect fit!Cowboy [C):-)]

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Posted by nbrodar on Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:37 PM

Out this away, CP are named after geographic features...

On the main where CPs are farther apart, the CP is generally named after the town it's located in. CP King - King of Prussia; CP Norris - Norristown; CP Phoenix - Phoenixville.  

Where CPs are closer together, they are named after nearby streets: CP Gray - Grays Ferry Ave; CP Penrose - Penrose Ave. Or nearby landmarks: CP Field - Franklin Field; CP Park - Farmont Park; CP Zoo - the Philadelphia Zoo.

Nick 

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Posted by BNSF_GP60M on Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:58 AM
I always wondered about control point names. Here in Hanford prior to double tracking the BNSF line we had East Hanford and West Hanford. Now we have Hanford and Mingo. Don't know where they got Mingo from. It must be a person because if they would of used a street name, it would be Grangeville.
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Posted by UPReading85 on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:11 PM
Control points are great fun to try and dissect and I actually wish there was more originality in naming them. When the Long Island Railroad built a new Park and Ride to handle increased commuter traffic, the control points on either side of the station were CP-Park and CP-Ride. Zzz [zzz]....At least most of the eastern railroads I know of don't have alpha-numeric codes and still relate to some geographic or historical significance to the area they serve. Things like CP-Brandy and CP-Wine on the NEC or CP-Zoo and CP-Grundy further up the Corridor.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:21 PM
I know of a storage track named after the guy who destroyed part of it, prior to that it had no official name. Most all the dark territory I ran in on CSX had blocks and sidings named after the cities they were in. Some were named after trainmasters and superintendents.
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Posted by MP173 on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:43 PM

The moral of the story is dont name something after someone until they have gracefully retired.

ed

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:40 PM
On a territory that I am familiar with a new passing siding was given the combined last names of two Trainmasters, shortly thereafter one of the Trainmasters was fired.  The siding was then named for its geographical location, however the computer system still identifies it under it's original trainmaster derived name.

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Posted by silicon212 on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:08 PM

Another point of interest is a couple of control points on the east leg of the UP Phoenix Line, both in Mesa, AZ.  The first one is called "McQueen", and nearby is a road named McQueen (running south from Baseline through Chandler and beyond).  Another CP is called Germann (Ger-MAN not Ger-MAINE), and there is a corresponding city road named Germann. 

In both cases above, it would appear that the railroad CPs lent their names to the city streets mentioned above, as none of the roads existed when the railroad was built.

An exception would be Higley - even though the CP corresponds with a city road by that name, both are named after a small town they are in.

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Posted by DPI on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:30 AM
Holiday is the name of the town at that location. Used to be East Holiday-West Holiday. Now Holiday and Corbet.
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Posted by rrnut282 on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:09 AM
There is a "station" in Fort Wayne on the switching leads used by Triple Crown trains switching Piqua Yard that was named after the Chief Engineer, Construction who was retiring when the track was built.  I asked the Construction Engineer I was working with on the project because I could figure out "Midway", but I couldn't figure out the other place name.
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:31 AM

The CSX Montreal sub is all dark territory.  All of the control points/block stations have names, not numbers.  Most are somehow related to the specific area (PHIL = Philadelphia, RIVER=Indian River, BRAD=Bradley Street,RICH = Richland) but the rationale for some is less obvious, probably rooted in some former landmark or other significance (or a surveyor).  I still haven't figured out "ROOTS,"  and "KANE" has me scratching my head, too.  I figure "ROCK" has to do with a big rock or maybe a cut.  I haven't been there to check, but it figures regularly into EC-1's.

 

LarryWhistling
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Posted by MP173 on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:03 AM

DPI:

Thanks for the info for "CP Mosser".  About 10 years ago I was driving thru Decatur, probably coming up Rt 48 when I saw the sign.  Could never figure out how to find out...who to contact at NS.  So, for 10 years it just swims around in my mind and then I ask the question and within a couple of hours the answer is provided.  Amazing.

Years ago Millikin University had a pretty good little point guard named Roy Mosser and with the junction being adjacent to the university, perhaps it was named after him.  He is currently a real estate developer in the area.

Interesting story about the names of firearms.  Looking at the Springfield - Hannibal Division, there is a "Holliday".  Was that named after Doc Holliday? 

Again, thanks for the info.

ed

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Posted by erikem on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:57 AM
 Railway Man wrote:

Cumbres means summit so it may have no relationship whatsoever to the Rio Grande. 

Since I know who picked that name (and know his sense of humor), it is pretty safe to say that it was named after the pass on the Rio Grande. 

DPI
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Posted by DPI on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:53 PM

MP173-now I know what your last name is....

As for that location, the correct name was supposed to be Mercer. Named for the street that passes underneath the junction. The story goes as the control point was being named someone incorrectly copied down the name as the two sound basically the same. The mistake wasn't caught until after all the appropiate paper work had been approved. The signs were also already ordered. And so in a twist of fate your name became the name of this junction. But you can always make up a story and say it was some prominent relative of yours.

A few years back NS changed the names of the sidings and control points on the Illinois division. So instead of East Harristown and West Harristown you now have Righter and Harristown. Righter was the last name of a dispatcher at the time. The man in charge of the signal department got to decide names. And when he ran out of dispatcher names he came up with something to his own liking. This man was an avid hunter and gun collector. So several control points are named after guns. NS now has control points like Ruger, Winston, Colt, Browning etc...     

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Posted by Railway Man on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:27 PM

Cumbres means summit so it may have no relationship whatsoever to the Rio Grande. 

Calling it "Cumbres Pass" then is about as redundant as "Sierra Nevada Mountains"

RWM

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Posted by erikem on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:59 PM
My favorite control point name was CP Cumbres on the SDNRR (at the top of the Miramar grade). Took me a couple of seconds to figure out who came up with that name.

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