Murray wrote: And how many years of railroad operating experience do you have?
And how many years of railroad operating experience do you have?
Since you asked:
20 years as Engineer in both freight and passenger service; over 5 routes totalling 700+ miles working out of Proviso (Chicago) on the C&NW.
If there is any point to this discussion, from my perspective it is about just being civil towards one another. Certainly, if the engineer is busy, waving is the last thing he needs to be doing. However, it will be difficult to convince me that an engineer is always so busy that he cannot at least acknowledge the presence of a railfan.
It costs nothing to be nice.
It is an interesting phenomenon that both boys and grown men tend to waive at other men who have jobs or occupations that are in some way an object of envy. We wave at off duty firefighters and they tend to wave back. We nod or wave at our village police and they wave when they drive by assuming they are not going to the scene of an incident but are just driving around.
When you drive around rural areas, at least here in the Midwest, men tend wave (or at least nod) at each other when passing by (some farmers wave by lifting their index fingers from the steering wheel of the tractor).
I notice plenty of trainmen wave assuming they are otherwise not occupied or doing something dangerous. Even guys on the back of a boxcar might nod. You'd certainly understand if they didn't.
Dave Nelson
There was a guy working a local industry a few years back, hanging onto a car (I think it was a tank car) in a shove move. Radio in one hand, grab iron in the other. He took his hand off the grab iron to wave at an employee at the industry. He fell off and was run over by his train. He didn't survive.
So, yes it can cost something to be nice. It can cost it all. This is a dangerous job 24/7. Anyone who thinks otherwise should find a new line of work.
When in the cab - to wave or not wave... does it really matter? Sometimes I may be in a bad mood (usually work orfatigue related) and I don't feel like waving or being nice. Sorry, but I am only human.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann wrote: I will second Murray. Why are some people so concerned obsessed with whether the dude in the cab waves or not? 99.99999999% of railfans are just concerned with the engine anyhow.
I will second Murray. Why are some people so concerned obsessed with whether the dude in the cab waves or not? 99.99999999% of railfans are just concerned with the engine anyhow.
Since you asked...I started this thread because of how (apparently) sensitive this issue is. I thought it would make an interesting contrast against those who state that it isn't their job to wave. That somewhere-it could be/is in someone's job description. Has anyone gotten in this thread and stated "Boo hoo, the engineer/conductor didn't wave!"?
Dan
RRKen wrote: I feel that is at-risk behavior without a doubt. I just happen to be doing risk accessment for our terminal when this topic was pointed out to me. Anything that takes your focus from your job, is at-risk behavior. Number 1 on my list is cell phones, specifically texting. More so in yard operations. Waving diverts attention from the task at hand, which is safe operation of your train. And it's just plain dumb.
I feel that is at-risk behavior without a doubt.
I just happen to be doing risk accessment for our terminal when this topic was pointed out to me. Anything that takes your focus from your job, is at-risk behavior. Number 1 on my list is cell phones, specifically texting. More so in yard operations.
Waving diverts attention from the task at hand, which is safe operation of your train. And it's just plain dumb.
Au contraire. If you are aware of your surroundings, you are attending to the task at hand. If those surroundings include people in proximity to the tracks, you need to know they are there.
Waving doesn't require your full and undivided attention. A mere raising of the hand is usually sufficient. All you need to do is acknowledge the person's existance in a friendly way. You don't even need to look directly at them. If you see people waiting at the crossing up ahead, a quick glance, a smile, and a wave will do the job.
We keep talking about public awareness of the railroads, and the lack thereof. Such a simple act as acknowledging people trackside (I won't even call it waving here) goes a long way toward putting a face (hopefully friendly) on the soulless monolith that is "the railroad."
If you are dealing with waving to the public in yard operations, you're in a unique yard, from what I've usually read here. Even if yard ops are within the public view, it's not like you have to acknowledge their presence every time you go by. Most people understand you have a job to do and are grateful that you took the time to acknowledge them in the first place. Using a break in the action to talk with them can also be an opportunity to teach some safety, too.
As for cell phones - you got that right.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CNW 6000 wrote: zugmann wrote: I will second Murray. Why are some people so concerned obsessed with whether the dude in the cab waves or not? 99.99999999% of railfans are just concerned with the engine anyhow. Since you asked...I started this thread because of how (apparently) sensitive this issue is. I thought it would make an interesting contrast against those who state that it isn't their job to wave. That somewhere-it could be/is in someone's job description. Has anyone gotten in this thread and stated "Boo hoo, the engineer/conductor didn't wave!"?
Yes and that is why its been closed before as it seems to make people mad. me I dont care as i wont wave at anyone except other employees as it is stated that we recognize each other with a wave ( as i approch other railroad worker MOW or conductors awake and watching trains by) to let us know that they are aware of a approaching train.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
zugmann wrote: There was a guy working a local industry a few years back, hanging onto a car (I think it was a tank car) in a shove move. Radio in one hand, grab iron in the other. He took his hand off the grab iron to wave at an employee at the industry. He fell off and was run over by his train. He didn't survive........Anyone who thinks otherwise should find a new line of work.
There was a guy working a local industry a few years back, hanging onto a car (I think it was a tank car) in a shove move. Radio in one hand, grab iron in the other. He took his hand off the grab iron to wave at an employee at the industry. He fell off and was run over by his train. He didn't survive....
....Anyone who thinks otherwise should find a new line of work.
Not to make lite of this tragedy, but this sounds like the type of person you mention. That certainly was not the time or place to be doing anything but concentrating on the move.
zugmann wrote: Sometimes I may be in a bad mood (usually work or fatigue related) and I don't feel like waving or being nice.
Sometimes I may be in a bad mood (usually work or fatigue related) and I don't feel like waving or being nice.
Now THAT is something I completely understand.
Mookie wrote:If you won't wave, can I at least get a hug?
Consider yourself hugged.
zardoz wrote: Mookie wrote:If you won't wave, can I at least get a hug?Consider yourself hugged.
2 hugs but only if you hug back......................
How about a nice glower?
Have any of you glowered at anyone recently?
Waving....EVERYONE DO THE WAVE! YYAYYYAHHH!!!
*ahem* ok I've had my fun. And now to business.
I fully understand what Zuggy's trying to say. I take this into consideration whenever I'm trackside. I don't wave at crews. If they're in a cheerful mood, they'll wave first. If not, life goes on! I make sure I only wave in response to them waving at me. That way nobody gets mad or hurt (that conductor being ran over saddens me, yes. but i also think he should've known better. Still, it's a horrible tragedy either way).
And personally I wish every other fan would be the same way. Wave in response only. Cuz I know if I'm in a really bad mood, the last thing I want is somebody else nagging me or trying to talk to me etc. (I also vent on forums to bother everybody else)
This concludes my broadcast of making sense. *KSSSHHHHTTT*
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Murray wrote: How about a nice glower?Have any of you glowered at anyone recently?
Noon today.
FTGT725 wrote:This thread makes me wonder, if all you professional railroaders are too busy to wave (safety issues), maybe if the foamers here just flipped you off, do you think you'd be too busy to repond? I'll bet not.
We/I get fliped off every trip I laugh any more it makes them madder. remeber i dont lower myself to their weak minded standerd . its amazing that you can laugh at them and make them madder and they stand dumb founded with out anything to come back at you with. the public should understand we are not thin skinned on the railroad.
When I am told I am number one in your book I respond with a wave. I remember one time going slow over a crossing, the driver (a man), let me know I was number one, I opened the window stuck my hand out, and waved, the woman (presumably his g/f) laughed at him. I understand the feeling of getting stuck at lowered gates to watch a train slow roll by, or stop for what may seem an eternity.
I can say this is very true.A couple of years ago, (BLOGGED IN THIS FORUM) I was harassed by a C.N. Cop after taking pictures way off property.
The other day, (Also Blogged here) I was right at the
"NO TRESPRESSING" sign. I had a frendly talk with and Enjoy from a C.N employee. It was at the same location.
I am surprised and shocked at a lot of the responses I read here.
I always give a friendly wave to every train crew.
80% of the time I receive a frendly wave back. many times when they see me watching the wave first.
80% of the 20%, I just figure that they are busy and I always believe in "SAFETY FIRST". They are busy and could not wave back.
I never received a negative response back.
The last 20%, I just figure that someone down the line might receive a friendlier response now and I just keep smiling.
How about the foamers too busy trying to get their photos on railpictures.net to bother to wave?
You know who I am talking about - the "i'm too cool to be a foamer" foamer.
wabash1 wrote: FTGT725 wrote:This thread makes me wonder, if all you professional railroaders are too busy to wave (safety issues), maybe if the foamers here just flipped you off, do you think you'd be too busy to repond? I'll bet not. We/I get fliped off every trip I laugh any more it makes them madder. remeber i dont lower myself to their weak minded standerd . its amazing that you can laugh at them and make them madder and they stand dumb founded with out anything to come back at you with. the public should understand we are not thin skinned on the railroad.
Where would one find the time to input all the information that the "foamer" got "madder" and stood dumfounded without a comeback. Would one actually have to turn and look backwards to see the reaction of the "foamer"? I bet there would be some conversation between the engineer and conductor and some chuckles.
In my opinion, truck driving is far more stressfull than running a train when it comes to paying attention to your surroundings. With the railroad, your on a fixed route (tracks), you know where your going. Trucks, you have many options. you have to mentally drive many more vehicles around you, you have to mentally think for many more people and what they are going to do around you, ect... The thing is, when you drive towards a trucker, lift a couple of fingers off the steering wheel (kinda like a peace sign) to acknowledge them, and most of the time, they are aware enough that you did that and will do the same back. Not to start a major arguement here but traversing the nations highways need more "paying attention" than riding the rails.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
dknelson wrote: Dave Nelson
Hey look! Conductors in training!
Oh yea, I have seen those people. If you ever want to talk to them, they hang out here: http://client0.sigmachat.com/sc.php?id=86149
They call themselves Foamer Fighters.
zugmann wrote: How about the foamers too busy trying to get their photos on railpictures.net to bother to wave? You know who I am talking about - the "i'm too cool to be a foamer" foamer. FTGT725 wrote:This thread makes me wonder, if all you professional railroaders are too busy to wave (safety issues), maybe if the foamers here just flipped you off, do you think you'd be too busy to repond? I'll bet not.
An "expensive model collector"
I never said I wasn't a foamer... in fact I am a foamer. Would I be here otherwise?
Thanks for the plug N(really big number). Sure beats foamerdog.com (aka rail-sissy chat).
zugmann wrote: I never said I wasn't a foamer... in fact I am a foamer. Would I be here otherwise? Thanks for the plug N(really big number). Sure beats foamerdog.com (aka rail-sissy chat).
Come on over and check out out rail chat site. A good group of people who have chatted online for more than 10 years.
You can read all about us at:
http://www.geocities.com/foamerfighters/
PS: We're much Much MUCH better than http://www.foamerdog.com primarily because we have real railroaders chatting with us!
I was in FoamerDawg once, I said the word pee-pee and got banned.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-155840/defoamer
You *really* need to get out more.............
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