Why my town is so stupid!

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by corwinda

QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered
Talk about dumb laws, though. The state of Alabama passed a law last year prohibiting grade crossings from being blocked more than 15 minutes.

In Oregon it's 10 minutes. (And not a new law; either. Late 70s or early 80s I think.)

[X-)][X-)][X-)][X-)]

little nit-picky fact to contemplate: Those 10 or 15 minute rules are modelled on the federal rule...The clock starts running if (BIG IF) the train comes to a complete stop. If the train starts moving (as in switching) again, the clock resets and starts over again. There is no penalty if the train encounters a UDE or is stopped by signal indication.

Had more than my fair share of fun in Southern California with this rule when using work trains to unload 1440 foot strings of welded rail. At road crossings and switches, normal procedure was to skip laying rail where track panels or switch panels were to be placed - We would stop the rail train, torch cut the rail being unloaded, move forward, chain the unlaid rail to the tie or rail after the skip and then go forward dumping rail again. (Takes about 5-10 minutes)

One pushy LA City cop made an issue of all the starting and stopping toward the end of the day. Our last string of rail on the train also involved a "skip" near the end of the last rail on the train. To appease the cop, we kept moving, the result was a rail laid accross the street pavement at a crossing to his dismay. The cop wound up flagging traffic for 8 minutes while the welders cut rhe rail and a front end loader dragged the rail away [and off the road surface]. After that little incident, LAPD left us alone.[:D]

mc[banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead]



UDE = UnDesired Emergency

[Anonymous]

Mud,
Thanks for the clarification on the rules. I got to talking with our senior traffic enforcement guy... his attitude was "Don't you have better things to do than watch trains?" I stifled the original urge to say, "Well, uh... nope." (Everyone may now stifle the urge to suggest I Get a Life.) The prevalent attitude with the folks I've talked to is that some departments measure a cop's performance by seeing how many tickets they can write. Sounds like you ran across an LAPD type who was on the down side that day. (PS it's not a "quota" it's a "work performance evaluation feature")
To return to the original thread, tho, surely the railroads must have some kind of lobby group that watches issues like this. Safety issues must have some kind of economic impact on the community... in terms of delay of delivery, public safety expenses, railroad crossing upgrades... NS and Columbus, Georgia, just got finished building an overpass over their main line which most folks love because it gets them into the center of town faster. (I think it's big enough to allow stack containers under it, but there are clearance problems elsewhere on the line.)
Erik

[mudchicken]

Eric:
In the US, FRA/DOT has a "Section 400" program that allots states $1.2 to $2.3 million a year for grade crossing safety improvements. With that money buying $150,000-$350,000 worth of flashers, gates, bells & circuitry PER CROSSING or $1.2 Million per grade separated BRIDGE, the money does not go far. (Railroads generally pay to inspect & maintain the signal system afterwards for the life of the crossing.) And then the related costs of track and crossing trackwork is added to that figure......Many states have plans to spend those funds over the next 5-10 years. Any new "crisis" location has to get in line and wait with all the others. Many times, congress has voted to add additional monies to the program only to not fund it it the Federal Budget (wicked, unfair system)....many times those funds wind up going against some favored highway pet project of that state's congressman or senator. This is happening right now with the Safe-T, NexTEA,TEA-21 type legislation. There has to be a better solution.

AAR, AREMA and others have tried to advance the cause for years, but as long as the trucking industry outspends the railroads on lobbying by multiples of 5-10, not much will happen.

[TH&B]

What's the big problem? All you do is put a big stick in the ground with an X on it (paint it all white). That means railway track, so you don't cross until you can see there is no train from both directions. Private crossings have no lights, bells or hornblowing so why do public crossings need it? No need for no big noise big budget who's gonna pay for it stuff.

[mudchicken]

440cuin:

You supplying the common sense and admitting the liability for all those who don't? I'll send the ambulance chasers, legal trade whiners, a few democrats & political hacks and the mortician to your door...... (you MUST be one lonely fella)

And by the way, can I have the contents to your bank account and personal worth before you give it all to them?[X-)][X-)][X-)][}:)]

[TH&B]

Well it's niether my RR nor properties and if someone uses (or steals) this idea of mine I won't charge them so my hands are clean. But this problem should not have an expensive solution, not in a small town.

[Anonymous]

Dear Sask_Tinplater,

I am about to make another mammoth posting, the likes of which you have probably seen before on this forum, but here I go....

As far as written newspaper persuasion for your cause, why not right an editorial, right a letter to the editor, and, better yet, give us the newspaper's adress and we'll right in as well. If you want I can even have some of my friends sign it and we'll call it "The Board of Directors of the KR&NP Railway;" the people of your town don't need to know that KR&NP stands for Kneading, Repaire and New Partes [:)].

The world is filled with idiots. And jerks. And when you have idiotic jerks, things get really ugly. But count your blessings: the proportion of idiots in your town is limited by your comparatively small population. Just think what vsmith and I have to contend with here in the single largest metropolitan area in the knwon universe (16 million people in southern California)! You want examples of idiots? People who think that the train cares that they are some stuck-up egomaniac who thinks he is world famous because he wrote a screenplay once (that's my near-to-Hollywood example), and people who try to get rid of all railway crossing arms and horns, and people who don't like Alco diesels (just kidding--Kevin)[:)].

But now for some actual arguements:

1.) The drive to get rid of horns and bells (and railways as a whole for that matter) started the second people no longer wished to stop to see a small SOO Line 4-6-2 drop off a reefer before hauling its local off to the next North Dokota hamlet--the moment people started opting for a cramped coach seat on a 737 instead of a drawing room on the Twentieth Century Limited. As I have said earlier, all too many people view anything keeping them from where they want to be as a horrible imposition onto their lives which are more important than anybody else's anyway. This is the root of most cases of racing trains to crossings--the other cause is mostly stupid teenagers who don't care that they'll end up as a quarter pounder if they race trains. Of course, here, none of us actually know what this is like since we are railfans and therefore intuitively stop the moment we see even a reflection in the crossing lights--in the hopes that doubleheaded Big Boys will come down the tracks, shaking the earth, even if it's a light rail line. But among non-railfans and those without respect for railways, all too often the thoughts are "can I beat this to the crossing" and, when they decide they can't (which would, icidentally, be one of the smartest decisions they have ever made), they become angry at the railway, not minding the fact that the cell phone in their right hand which they are talking on while drinking the next fad-beverage in their left probably travelled by train, as did the car they are about to put in the path of the oncoming train!

2.) Railways are no longer "cool," as I am sure you, bigboy4884, dougal, CNWfan5525, and others can attest to. That is why people are ridiculed for liking trains, and why people have less respect for them than the scrapper did for the historic steam locomotive rusting away in his junkyard.

3.) Essentially, we lost respect for railroads about 1.75 generations ago. This is why most people other than railfans (who have an omnipresent and prerequisite respect for trains), their families and friends (whom the railfans teach respect of railways to), and a few other people--who managed to retain common sense in today's society which is all too often more superficial and pretentious than it is substantive--are so positively clueless.

And now, the less emotional and more logical arguements:

4.) Here in southern California, we have the new Gold Line light rail line, which I live near to and often bicycle and dive by. All along the line through South Pasadena (the city--not the southern region of Pasadena), residents have put up signs advocating "No Horns, No Bells, No Speeds over 30 mph," or some speed restriction like that. Firstly, to show how uninformed these people are, the light rail cars in use on the Gold Line don't even have bells! Further still, the "horn" is little more than a buzzer, which goes off only at grade crossings (not when starting or stopping), and which is so quiet that you cannot hear it from within a car next to the crossing with the radio off! Believe me: these horns could be a lot louder! Which brings up another incident familiar to me, which is loosely related:

5.) I volunteer frequently at the Orange Empire Railway Museum. Last November, we hosted A Day Out With Thomas for the second time. To show you how much these people disregard the reason horns exist in the first place, the museum switched out the typical railway horn of the fairly loud persuasion for a Pacific Electric trombone whistle on the locomotive powering the train (yes--I'm sorry but Thomas is unpowered). For those of you who don't know so much about Los Angeles interurbans, the PE trombone whistle is much quieter, and produces a sound similar to that of a louder--and improved--bottle being blown into. I admit, their were small children present, but if they don't like hearing the locomotive horn, then they probably aren't young railfans--it seems to be the non-railfan parents who are more often taken aback. But getting back on topic....

6.) The Gold Line runs on what a decade ago was the AT&SF's Pasadena Subdivision, which, if I remember correctly, was constructed in the 1880's or 90's. This means that most of the residents of South Pasadena were living there back during the good old days of the Pasadena Sub, which had many full size-trains with full-size horns creating full-size music (which others call noise) as well as a daily eastbound and westbound Southwest Chief. Of course, the AT&SF probably had more legal muscle, but I never saw anyone complaining about the melodious song of the Southwest Chief, particularly when it stopped in Pasadena and invited a very young trainjunky29 into the cab....What I'm getting at here is that, in part, people don't have these fond memories of the railroads with which railroads and communities had a symbiotic relationship for often over a century. Also, what I'm saying is that the people of South Pasadena really have no right to complain, particularly when the new Light Rail cars create a fraction of the music or "noise" that the old trains did. Furter still, those people who moved in when the Pasadena Sub was torn up and before or during construction of the Gold Line have no right to complain, since they knew it was coming in anyway. And finally, those people moving to South Pas, as it's called here, have no right at all to complain, particularly since many of them moved to South Pasadena because of the transit oppurtunities afforded by the Gold Line. Get my drift????

7.) The same people who are advocating the abolition of horns, bells, and other instruments of the railroad symphony, will be the first to profusely blame the railroads when somebody in a car gets hit, because there was no horn to warn him.

8.) Chama, New Mexico, (you know--Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railway) does not have this problem. This is because the town of Chama (population 1,900) is dependant upon the railroad, and the tourism it generates, for its very existence. Without this, it would be a bump on the road between the county seat of Tierra Amarilla and Antonito, Colorado. And (surprise, surprise), their are no movements in Chama for the abolition of the steamers' whistles, nor for "grade crossing safety" improvements. In fact, every crossing on the line is gaurded only by the old x with "RAILROAD CROSSING" written on it, and to my knowledge there has never been anything even remotely resembling a car crash with a train in the line's 110 year history! Why are all these things? Because people there respect the railroads, the trains, and enjoy seeing a K-36 2-8-2 turn on the wye every afternoon. Additionally, almost all tourists there are railfans (aside from the area's incredible beauty and the train, and the beauty enhanced by the train's presence, there's not mush else to visit Chama for), often to the tune of 30,000 people each year. You see what a little respect for the railway accomplishes? It accomplishes a return to the symbiotic relationship between railway and community--one that has disappeared all too many places, although Chama never lost it. Furthermore, most people in Chama never lost interest in seeing the preverbial SOO Line 4-6-2 switching a local, although in their case it's no. 488 swithing in the yard.

What this is all getting at, Sask_Tinplater, is that you should keep your pro-railway stance in your town. And maybe you should consider being the citizen who advocates for the railroad in your community. Being as there are only 1,000 people in your town (I know--it's not a terribly small number, since I've been in towns of 28 people, but you can understand, being as I'm from southern California), I would think that many people know you there, and being as you are probably well liked and respected by many of them, you might be pleasantly surprised about how many of them listen to you. And remember--railways don't buy horns to look pretty on their locomotives. Horns exist for a mulitude of reasons, not the least of which is to warn people of the train, without which, innocent lives would be lost because people did not know the trains were near. So really, you could say that you would be trying to save innocent lives. And if nobody does listen, then you will have known that you tried, and everybody will know that you are pro-railroads. I would find that preferable to not telling anyone in the community how I felt. Now as for idiots who run the crossings....

Go ahead and use these arguements if you want...although the residents of Langenburg will probably not be moved to the greatest extent by my unceasing examples from the Gold Line [:)]. And that statement about the quarter pounder, the train, and the car from the other thread might turn a few heads in your direction.

I hope you enjoyed my random ramblings,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

Well, I have an update on the situation. Finally, the they came to their senses! The headline story of this week's local paper is "Langenburg Won't Ban Whistle Blowers". In order for the trains to stop blowing their whistles, crossing gates would have to be installed, which would cost $150,000. Since the work would be done at the request of the town, they would have to pay the full cost. Like I said before, they certainly wouldn't be willing to fork over that kind of cash (if they even have it). It also mentioned in the article that safety fencing would likely have to be installed around the crossings. That would shure be a bummer for watching trains if it did happen. In addition, if the town went ahead with this, they would also have to pay for a series of Transport Canada public hearings. To quote the last paragraph of the article, "Enough's enough, decided town council last wek, agreeing that train whistles aren't that major of a problem after all. Councillor Lois Wilson even noted that since the issue of train whistles had been brought forward by council, it seems that CP engineers aren't whistling as long as they used to and are doing so closer to the crossings." That last line's a load of garbage (probably said to make people think that they actually got somewhere by raising this issue), but all in all it's very good news to hear that nothing more will be done to try and stop the trains from blowing their horns.

[mudchicken]

Sask:

Thanx for the update.......interesting to see how hearts and minds change when a wee bit of fiscal reality sets in![;)]

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[rrnut282]

It's amazing how quiet it gets when you ask them to put their money where their mouth is[swg]

[Anonymous]

Well, Brunswick Hasn't gotten there yet. There is only one crossing, and there are already gates, but even with the gates and the horns, people still don't seem to see the train (like the jogger who kept on going about 5 seconds before the train backed over where he had been last week. Started cursing at the engineer probably). If they had a no horn ruling here, the only people it would affect would be us railfans in town.