I believe that the old signal arrangement dates back to the ABS to CTC conversion in 1960; interesting that it lasted that long.
K. P. HarrierIn K.P.’s opinion the 30 M.P.H. universal crossover CP will continue, but mast color light signals will be erected. Then, too, the whole CP could be eliminated.
This is a possibility if the traditional 10 mile spacing between future universal crossovers is still 'standard'. Going west from CP E Colfred MP 785, new u/c's would be about MP 775 (W Noah), and MP 765 (west of CP West Wellton).
Perhaps new Google Maps will show us grading that will be 'the tell'.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Unexpected Trip to Arizona
September 16-17, 2017
Part “K” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
There has been some question about the color light mast signals in the Buckeye area in relation to the Highway 85 grade crossing.
There also was (“was”) some confusion as to where the next signal west of Highway 85 was. This trip the first bidirectional signal west off Highway 85 was found, and it is by the dirt Wilson Ave.
Looking east towards Highway 85 way in the distance:
Back at Highway 85, the near grade crossing is the southbound lanes, and the far away lanes are for northbound traffic, and the ABS signal by those northbound traffic lanes..
Continued in Part L
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part “L” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
Looking west again from Highway 85 in the Buckeye area, the Phoenix line here is strangely ballasted on top of a rocky fill.
The north side of the track looks more traditional.
East of Highway 85, in the North 1st Street grade crossing area, that west side westbound TWO-lamp head (left) unlike the west side eastbound three-light head (right).
K.P. has NOT seen these signals lit by a train, nor a train on the line, but is inclined to believe these signals only have THREE indication circuitry, i.e., for green, yellow, and red, and NOT with a fourth display, flashing yellow. It is highly unlikely that K.P. will ever see an actual train here, but he hears a local or two work the line
Unlike the mast signal by North 1st Street, the one by Wilson Ave. has three lamps facing each way, at lease the housings for such. One would think the one by Wilson Ave. would have only two lamps like at North 1st Street. Until someone here at the forum finds and talks to a maintainer, more questions than answers will persist!
Continued in Part M
Part “M” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
The focus in this posting series has been Arizona. However, there are things to report in California, so from here to the end of the series that will be dealt with.
Traveling eastbound on the I-10 Freeway, the Beaumont fenced yard was stopped at first. Things were much the same, but brand new, un-license plated trailers were present, typically to be filled with track equipment (like rail saws, etc.) and also signal equipment.
Continued in Part N
Part “N” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
Traveling eastbound on Highway 86 and reaching CP SP620 THERMAL, K.P. found nothing had changed. Thus, it was expected thereafter nothing in California had changed also. However, at the west end of the next siding, at CP SP624 MECCA, the CP with the recently silver painted cantilever signal bridge, new mast signals had been erected, but not activated.
In that last photo above, note the new, EXTENDED supports for the signal heads!
At the east end of the Mecca siding, future mast color light signals had been erected too.
Continued in Part O
Part “O” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
Further east, at CP SP633 MORTMAR new, turnout aside signals had been erected there too.
A new CP box had been put in too.
At the EAST end of the Mortmar siding, new signals were also being put in there too.
Above, note the background, new west side eastbound mast signals had not been put in yet.
Continued in Part P
Part “P” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
Mystery-villes
Now along Salton Sea on Highway 111, not too far east of the curved high bridge, K.P. noted the top heads only mast signals were ALL on (lit), with greens or flashing yellow aspects in BOTH directions, and NOT the at least one direction on each mast having a red display! The signals, upon seeing K.P.’s camera, quickly went dark. Sorry, guys, but signals often don’t want to be caught doing weird things, especially when a camera is around …
A little east, at CP SP648 BERTRAM is the Main 2 controlled siding, and it has a long string of engineless well-cars in it
This area was two-tracked maybe about five years ago, and nothing new was present as expected.
Continued in Part Q
Part “Q” (of K-Q, Overall A-Q)
AWAY from the tracks now, Highway 111 follows about a half mile away, not the Sunset Route, but the Calexico Subdivision that goes south to the border with Mexico. This is a little off topic, but a sight was seen K.P. is uncertain of how it should be interpreted.
Intermodal containers were being loaded onto well-cars! What might that mean? Instead of grain cars, will grain go via Intermodal containers now as a new trend?
By the sand dunes near Glamis a westbound Intermodal was moving across the sandy desert scene. Just ahead of the power (leftward) is CP SP697 MESQUITE, and end of two-tracks from the west, AND, the junction switch for the Mesquite Landfill site.
If one looks real good on the photo just above, that Mesquite branch-like track heads to the background right by the second container.
With Positive Train Control still eating up the railroad’s funds, two-tracking eastwardly here may be years away.
This will conclude the series.
--------------
A Reply to BNSF6400 (9-15):
Yes, I too hope everything is fine with everybody. In my case, the delay in posting was because of a lack of dispatches by the Sunset Route, and my staying relatively close to my dispatch office in anticipation of the San Gabriel Trench opening for through trains, which just keeps lingering on closed. A source advised a UP circular was issued about signal and track changes recently, but that advisory info was soon rescinded.
Unless something happens, things will probably remain relatively quiet posting-wise in this thread for a while. I hope to return to western Arizona in a month to six weeks, as I’m betting a lot more of the laying down masts in Wellton will be erected at their intended sites. Of special interest are the three remaining equilateral or wye switch locations, which I am now convinced will have the most freakish signal arrangement we’ve seen in years, i.e., ALL mainline signals being of the red over type. And, I’ve been doing my homework with aerials on that Welltton area, and should be able to get relatively close to those signals while still on public property.
So things are happening, but are snail paced. But, at least things are happening!
MikeF90 (9-23):
After some post-trip thinking, I’m convinced all the track in the Wellton area will remain the same, it is just the signaling that will be revamped. CP SP768 WEST WELLTON will be unaltered except for the signaling. That universal crossovers arrangement does act as a relief valve of sorts on a long stretch of two-tracks, and allows a slower train to be passed by a faster one.
Take care all,
K.P.
KP,
A wonderful trip report. To me, these reports of yours form the backbone not just of this thread, but the whole forum. The detail is unmatched, and you do a exceptional job of showing us progress on the two-tracking.
Thanks so much for sharing!
--billio
Quick Los Angeles area Update Info …
You may recall the postings of July 13, 2017, of a then future CP out the Los Angeles identified at CP AL484 WORTH that had a west cantilever signaling and an east single head over a single head mast signal.
Reports are that that CP was scheduled to be activated today, and assumedly it was.
The San Gabriel Trench supposedly still lingers on NOT put in service yet.
Future Red Rock Yard in the Red Rock, AZ Area …
… May unbelievably be affected by Las Vegas …
… and Reno, NV
Most of us know that a Red Rock Yard was planned, but it seems to have drifted away, at least word of it has.
It is unknown if the planned land (“land”) has been acquired by UP or not, but it seems UP may have been terribly preoccupied of late by the Positive Train Control matter. However, K.P. has learned AT THIS “General Discussion” forum a non-railroad development is foaming, that is, a NEW Interstate Highway is planned!
It is understood that the new Interstate will be identified at I-11, and generally will head north (technically northwest) from the Tucson, AZ area to Las Vegas, NV, then head to Reno, and possibly go through central Oregon. This is mentioned herein because if UP does not already own the land for the projected Red Rock Yard, that land may take a big jump in price as more and more become aware of the new Interstate 11.*
In a cursory investigation of a possibly future yard at Red Rock, it appears the main focus at that yard will be eastbound sorting, sorting for Kansas City (Gold State Route), Dallas and Memphis (Missouri Pacific route), and Houston and New Orleans (Sunset Route). West Colton Yard would be the westbound counterpart yard. If Red Rock falls through, maybe Santa Teresa, NM could become the eastbound classifying yard instead.
In conclusion, I-11, as a new, unexpected matter may (“may”) affect the price of a yard, and where that yard may ultimately be built at, if it is built at all.
-----------
* The I-11 Freeway concept was learned about from the “Union Pacific (Ex-SP) West Phoenix Line” thread, the Fred M. Cain post of September 27, 2017 at x:47 A.M.
K.P.,
I was able to find an article this morning on Red Rock. It almost sounds as if it might be dead.
Here it is:
http://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/a-decade-later-no-pressing-need-for-red-rock-rail/article_38e753ba-41e1-5087-a9da-e761ceb0c22d.html
Still trying to get an update on the proposed "Buckeye Yard". That plan might not be completely dead 'cause it's my understanding that the UP already owns the land.
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
This I-11 freeway brings back another railfan rumor from five to ten years ago. Which was that the BNSF was going to build a line from California to Oregon through Nevada. The Tonopah and Tidewater, The other Tonopah line to the SP Mina branch to the old NCO right o ways would have been used. With this new Interstate could be.
Loading grain into containers for export is not entirely new. In the past, the A&C has shipped containers of alfalfa to the Pacific Rim from around Blythe and Parker.
John Timm
usmc14 (9-30):
That Interstate 11 thing is real and a few miles of it actually exists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_11
Las Vegas, NV is the magical twilight zone spot, where I-11 southward becomes a non-conforming Interstate designation. The only way I personally see for any conformity is rename Interstate 15 to I-9 SOUTH of Las Vegas, while north of Las Vegas I-15’s identity would remain the same. Should be interesting what happens.
Hodgepodge
A lot of Sunset Route areas have been posted about of late by forum contributors, and not posted about too, in this and another thread, and one (K.P.) tries to make sense of it all.
The above title basically gives one an idea of the situation. Red Rock and Arizona have been prominent in the forum threads of late, and in a few days it is hoped to put those things into perspective in conjunction with a “sense” that K.P. has gotten from an overview examination. Also, the forum may or may not know about a long track line off (“off”) the Sunset Route in California that has very recently disappeared. And, horrors! Something fantastically great and yet sadly horrible has happened to Loop Ave. on the far eastern side of Ontario, CA.
Details and some photos as soon a K.P. can get to them …
Update as of Friday, September 29, 2017
Eastern Side of Ontario, CA
Part I (of I-II)
Warning: Loop Ave. (by Etiwanda Ave.)
Loop Ave. (some maps say Loop Road, but the street sign says Ave.) Bridge that parallels the Etiwanda Ave. Bridge has been repaved. The roadway hot top is super thick, and if one drives off the roadway (to park) their vehicle’s undercarriage is at risk, unless it is a high four-wheel drive type.
As seen above, a painted yellow double line is now in the center of the roadway. The implication of that, instead of vehicles passing in the center of the street, they dutifully pass by RIGHT of those yellow lines, and photographers are in immediate risk (below photo lower right) unless they stand on the other side of the curbing which has a falling down the embankment risk!
If you dare to visit the area, be careful. Watch for vehicles and keep your vehicle’s undercarriage in tack. There are also now ‘No Parking’ or ‘No Stopping’ signs around the actual loop
The Pipeline Progress
From that Loop Ave. overpass, the pipeline in the distance seems to have been buried, though not yet finished.
The ground by Loop Ave. is now devoid of construction equipment, most likely because the work is finished here.
Continued in Part II
Further West, East of Milliken Ave.
Part II (of I-II)
The Pipeline Still …
Farther West, by the East Slope …
… of the Milliken Ave. Flyover
Two laying down long pipings are by the east slope of the Milliken Ave. flyover.
It is unknown why these pipes are connected together whereas the piping in the distance as seen previously from Loop Ave. was all separate pieces.
This will conclude the posting about Friday, September 29. 2017. Very brief material (Eagle Mountain Railroad) will be posted tomorrow, and some overview opinions and conclusions (like about Red Rock and Positive Train Control) will be posted in a day or two after that.
Those pipes will probably be installed using a bore and pull-back method where a machine will bore a hole from the other end and then the pipe will be attached and pulled back through the hole.
The sectional pipe was probably installed by trenching.
Finally, the Eagle Mountain Railroad …
… Has Gone to Heaven
The Eagle Mountain Railroad way out in the desert that took iron ore 51 miles overall, past Interstate 10 (below second photo) and finally reached the below sea level Sunset Route area called Ferrum, meaning ‘iron’ in Latin, that lingered out of service for over thirty years rotting away in the sun, has finally had its rails and ties taken up!
As noted above, at photo time, the rails are gone but the ties are often stacked in groups awaiting removal.
For a separate railroad way out in the desert, because of Interstate 10 bisecting of the route, the Eagle Mountain Railroad was very well known, though little investigated. K.P. may someday spend a day and go way out there and halfway see what he missed for decades. But, there is no hurry now, as the old grading will probably linger on for centuries.
In Sunset Route single-track days, Ferrum was an SP south side siding, with a small yard to the north for the Eagle Mountain Railroad interchange. When the UP Main was two-tracked, the second-track was laid NORTH of the single-track mainline, resulting in Mains 1 and 2, with the south side Ferrum siding being pulled up.
I am actually vehemently opposed to the builing of I-11 *OR* any other new Interestate highway. In my own personal, honest, humble opinion, they should not add so much as another mile of new Interstate Highway until the rest of the system can be brought back into a state of good repair. Sad to say, that's just not happening. Most of the Interstate Highways here in the upper Midwest are continuing to deteriorate at an alarming rate. So, why add more miles? This makes no sense and will only make the problem even worse in the future when the chickens come hope to roost. You can only defer maitenence for so long.
But, as our Interstates continue to crumble, we can perhaps surmise that at some point this will be good for the railroads!
Yeah, I think it's a darn shame about the Eagle Mountain. What I don't like about ripping tracks up like this that if some unforeseen development should occur in the future where the line might be needed again, restoration is all but impossible.
Why would anyone ever need this line again? We don't know. That's often true with any abandonment.
Fred M Cain
Fred M. Cain (10-2):
Newsflash, Fred! It just came over the radio that scientists have discovered that mixing iron ore (good news for the Eagle Mountain Line) with peanut butter and jelly that GOLD results! President Trump has signed an executive order to have the Feds pay for the immediate relaying of the Eagle Mountain Railroad in just two weeks, and a peanut butter and jelly factory at Ferrum (needing salt from Salton Sea) should be ready in three weeks! I-11 can now be built, and the failing bridges around the country can all be fixed very quickly!
Yah, right!
I think someone finally figured out that the Eagle Mountain Railroad had scrap value and exploited that. The line, otherwise, is worthless, especial way out in the desert in no man’s land. Maybe in 200 years when the City of Los Angeles reaches the Colorado River and Blythe has been absorbed into it, the Eagle Mountain right-of-way might be used for commuter trains. Anybody have a time machine so we can pear into the future? I’m dying to find out if the Sunset Route two-tracking was ever been finished …
Have fun with all this, Fred,
I lived at home with my family in the Phoenix area 1967-1980. I had an aunt and cousins living in the L.A. area (Lakewood) and we would frequently drive over there for visits. I can clearly remember driving over the I-10 overpass over the Eagle Mountain RR, looking down and seeing the rail heads glisten in the bright desert sun. Obviously it was very much in use at that time. Maybe the last time I ever saw it in the 1970s it had rusty rails, I can't remember for sure.
I can recall reading about a plan a number of years ago to turn the abandoned Eagle Mountain mine into a huge garbage dump for Southern California. The proposal was to bring the garbage out by rail and dump it there. I'm not sure what ever came of this plan but I assume it just didn't quite past muster.
I'm a little skeptical about your peanut butter and jelly idea but your mention of a future commuter rail line might not be as way-out as it appears at first glance, especially in light of the explosive growth that's occurred in California in my life time. I mean, when I was a kid I wouldn't have dreamed by even my wildest imagination that there would one day be commuter trains running between Stockton and San Jose. The Eagle Mountain mine isn't so far from the expanding metropolis of S.C. that this would be completely impossible. If they could get the water, perhaps they could even fill the mine and have a huge recreational lake for the suburban/exurban residents. But it'd be a very long drive even to S.B so perhaps a high(er) speed commuter train would be just the ticket.
I'm not sure who'd really want to live out there in that extreme heat, though. NOT ME ! After putting in 13 years in the Phoenix area, I feel like I have already had my share of hot weather for one lifetime. Never again!
Another thought I had is that whoever owned the Eagle Mountain RR tracks should be given credit for keeping them intact as long as they did "just in case something comes up". Alas, that "something" never came up and time finally ran out for the Eagle Mountain railroad.
Frailey, the Big Gap, and Red Rock
TRAINS Magazine’s monthly commentary writer Fred Frailey in his September 2017 piece (page 12) brought to light an Intermodal stagnation situation that has existed for years and years, i.e., there simply is no growth. So, the great, grandiose projections of those that write about the future, that there will be 100 or so trains on the Sunset Route, etc., are simply writing about a pie in the sky public relations untruth!
Thus, the current single-track portions of the present large percentage of two-tracked Sunset Route are sufficient for current levels of traffic, and could be for years to come. UP management may (“may”) have concluded that too. Severely compounding the current lack of two-tracking progress is, of course, management’s preoccupation with finishing all the required parts of the UP system with Positive Train Control with the deadline hanging over their heads.
Near when this thread started in 2008 UP was progressing westward from the east with two-tracking, from the El Paso area. Then, in later 2008 the big Metrolink-UP head-on took place in the Los Angeles area on non-Sunset Route tracks, that sent the government into hysteria and Positive Train Control became the law of the land. So, the money that would have been for two-tracking was often diverted to implementing Positive Train Control.
In all of these bizarre situations we heard of Red Rock Yard coming in Arizona. But, things mysteriously lingered on and there has been NO yard. Some got excited economically about the yard, others protested it. Then, the Casa Grande Dispatch of September 10, 2017, in an article titled “A decade later, ‘no pressing need’ for Red Rock rail facility, railroad says,” said basically what we read in the article’s title. (Thanks to poster Fred M. Cain in another thread for bringing the news clip to the forum’s attention.)
When one compares the two-tracking in the last few years in California to Arizona, an inordinate disparity seems to exist, with California’s two-tracking way outnumbering what was done in Arizona. When one connects Red Rock to two-tracking, one has to wonder if Red Rock was a ruse, bait if you will, to get some concession from Arizona, or UP somehow hoping to get around some financially adverse matter in Arizona.
Presently, in the Wellton, AZ area, old target signals are being replaced by the color light type, and new CP boxes are included with that. New CP boxes are not cheap. Thus, such installations suggest, at least to K.P., that two-tracking may be set back for a decade or two, possibly even more. It is just unimaginable that new boxes will be scrapped for new two-tracking ones in a few years.
Of course, there is the Pomona, CA situation, where a huge CP was and is planned, encompassing the LA&SL and SP lines. It was not too terribly long ago the two new CP boxes were activated. TEMPORARY track and crossovers are known to exist there! AND, AS TIME EVOLVES, THE CP BOXES’ CIRCUITRY WILL EVOLVE TO A FINAL, EFFICIENT, CP. Maybe that is a precursor for elsewhere in the future on the Sunset Route, with CP boxes evolving.
There may seem to be more CP boxes from target signal upgrades to color light signals on the single-track than what could be used when the line is two-tracked, IF it eventually will be. A circumstance may consume the theoretically more boxes than appears needed for two-tracking. We remember the situation of the Bertram interlocking down by Salton Sea, at CP SP648 BERTRAM. That CP is a double-crossovered one AND the east end of the Bertram siding. Because of that, that CP has TWO boxes. Plus another box for the west end of the Bertram siding that connects to Main 2 only. So, extra boxes may be taken up by future two-tracking sidings, sidings that we outsiders have no idea will exist in the future.
UP likely has gotten the PTC matter down to a science, and CP boxes will be moved around and reused in the most financially efficient manner. That could be obvious to observers. What may not be so observable is what games UP may be playing in Arizona, and if the State will win on if UP will, if there are games being played way behind the scenes. But, as alluded to above, there must be some kind of explanation of why California has had way, way more two-tracking than Arizona has in the last five years …
There are two very long sections of single-track remaining in Arizona between CP SP770 WELLTON and CP SP 876 ESTRELLA, with12.3 miles between those sections in the Stanwix-Sentinel area that was two-tracked in the early part of the millennium. Those long sections, if K.P. has guessed correctly, will stay single track for a long time. But, time will tell.
Positive Train Control has circulated a little extra money in the economy, but it hasn’t really produce wealth. Two-tracking produces wealth. It is ironic that the new U.S. President, who promised wealth, is hampered in creating wealth by PTC. It is wondered once the new President figures that out if he will reimburse the railroads so the railroads can proceed with wealth creation, like UP’s two-tracking of the Sunset Route.
There are a lot of possibilities for the future. Those possibilities could bring bad, or they could bring good. Unfortunately, at this time, not even the likes of Mr. Frailey or the railroads know what will happen.
That was an excellent post! You touched on several things that I’d like to comment on as well.
First, the Frailey editorial. I found his commentary as most disturbing and not just from a railfan standpoint but from a personal economic standpoint as well since I have about 400 shares of UP stock in my IRA.
If I understood Frailey correctly, UP would seem to be focusing on the “cream” while downgrading or disposing of business that is only marginal profitable. This is most certainly NOT a good way to grow the business. In fact, I think it’s the same business model that was employed for years by the old Southern Pacific Transportation Co. and it got them in deep trouble.
BNSF on the other hand is pulling out all stops to grow the business and please their customers. This will probably lead to smaller profits in the short term but with BIG payoffs in the long term and THAT is the kind of strategy that Warren Buffet likes.
As a case in point of UP’s missed opportunity in developing new business, I can point to their complete failure in developing a major intermodal terminal in the Greater Phoenix area. BNSF didn’t miss the chance. They’re carrying long trains of containers in and out of the area in spite of their handicap of not really having the very best line to access the area with.
The proposed Red Rock yard, in my own personal, honest and humble opinion is a great idea but is in the wrong location. It ought to be put in BUCKEYE! Indeed, there was also a large proposed facility slated for Buckeye but I have not been successful at getting information on this. Is it dead, on “hold” or still a “go”?. No one seems to be able to tell me but I’m not through with this. I am continuing to bug the Union Pacific Corporation as to WHY they can’t manage to develop a major intermodal container facility in the 7th greatest metropolitan area in the U.S.
Regarding PTC, if that prevents even a few really serious collisions, it might eventually pay for itself. Perhaps the Nation’s railroads might even be able to obtain lower insurance rates through it. The biggest problem I see with PTC is not that it was a bad idea but rather that it was a government mandate which was ordered before the technology was fully developed.
As for the double-tracking project, I am not sure myself if it’d be really necessary to double track the whole thing from Colton to El Paso. I don’t know what kind of traffic density that the UP really had in mind if it was 100 trains a day or if they just threw that figure out there. Think about the fact that the BNSF and AT&SF before it was getting some pretty impressive densities out of the “southern” transcon route when it still had significant segments of single track. So if the UP just does most of the route, that might be sufficient for at least the next 40 years of so.
But there was one thing mentioned that kind of jumped out at me like a sore thumb: The section from Wellton to Estrella might remain single track with CTC passing sidings for the foreseeable future. Uh, you know what? It might be ONLY a coincidence BUT wouldn’t that mostly be parallel to the Phoenix subdivision? Hmmmmn. Sure wish I could get a straight answer on that supposedly “proposed” yard at Buckeye!
Fred M. Cain (10-3):
Your last reply’s end paragraph popped out at me. And several aspects of it can be commented on.
The Phoenix Sub is sort of parallel to the Sunset Route’s Gila Sub. But, that doesn’t really mean anything. There is insufficient west of Phoenix traffic to warrant the expense of reopening the western part of the Phoenix Line. As I recall, any new yard in Buckeye would only be to get activity out of downtown Phoenix, where the present yard is at.
It should be noted that BNSF does have access to Phoenix via its Peavine Line, a north-south access route to the east-west southern Transcon. I’ve heard in the past that a couple of trains each way utilize that unsignaled, dark line. But, those trains basically are for traffic to or from the EAST Westward traffic is irrelevant in the big picture. The same holds true on the Sunset Route. Westbound traffic out of Phoenix is minimal, which doesn’t justify the expense of reopening the western Phoenix Line.
For your information, in the area where I work out of, in the High Desert of Southern California, there is the Palmdale Cutoff and the line from Tehachapi, that whole thing called the Mojave Subdivision. A southbound train with freight cars for Palmdale will pass Mojave and Palmdale and go all the way to West Colton Yard. There, the cars are humped and sorted, and finally depart on the Mojave Flyer and travel northbound, passing Palmdale again, and finally reach the Mojave Yard. Thereat, the cars are sorted. Then those cars go south again on a local, and spotted at their destination in Palmdale. It is crazy, but the freight cars for a customer in Palmdale made it to Palmdale three times!
A colleague says UP hasn’t, unbelievably, figured out how to minimize expenses on the Phoenix Line. If he was in change, he says that he would NOT have a yard at all in downtown Phoenix NOR build one in the Buckeye area! He indicates “magical locals” would swiftly do wonders. I suppose a limited HO model of the basic premise of the eastern Phoenix Line (plus Buckeye) would prove or disprove his theory. Better yet, a computer simulation would quickly do the trick. But, my colleague has other interests now, and is not really interested in helping a railroad make more money.
As far as you contacting UP, I think you are wasting your time, and are advised not to. They are going to do what they want to do for reasons we are not privy to. And, from what you have posted of late, I see no great miracle of profit in opening the Phoenix Line to through traffic. And, remember, to route Amtrak Nos. 1 and 2 back through Phoenix would be a tremendously burdensome operating expense to Amtrak, and burdensome expenses is the last thing Amtrak wants. So, keep all that word to the wise in mind … Now, if you have a couple of billion dollars to risk, I’m sure UP would gladly try your ideas, because only your money would be at risk.
Sometimes when we think of the western Sunset Route, we forget UP has the line through Las Vegas, NV and Salt Lake City, UT, and it can be utilized too. Much of that line is 70 M.P.H., whereas the Sunset Route has been downgraded to 65 M.P.H. That alternate aspect of Los-Angeles-Chicago traffic may (“may”) have been a factor in lessoning the speed of two-tracking on the Sunset Route and installing Positive Train Control on it. Interestingly, UP put PTC on that entire Los Angeles-Salt Lake City line first, doing so before the Sunset Route had any appreciable amount of PTC on it.
Have a great day, Fred,
Las Vegas NV, Union Pacific … and K.P.
My wife advises that a gal she knew of at work was one of the fatalities in last Sunday’s Las Vegas massacre.
A UP employee (of unknown department and where they worked out of) was killed too.
Also, a source advises another person they knew of and indirectly connected to me succumbed also.
Now, all that is really getting too close for comfort!
Back to Wellton, AZ
On Friday, October 6, 2017 a return to southwestern Arizona was made from Southern California, with a special focus on the Ave. 29E grade crossing in Wellton, the location where previously a new cantilever signal bridge was partially erected. This visit the horizontal part had been attached-installed.
The above was taken with a wide angle lens; hence, the view looks warped.
Unfortunately, the heads were covered with black plastic coverings. Nevertheless, it could be discerned what was underneath those plastic coverings, and this will be more than a relocation and putting up signals that conform to PTC regulations. THE TRACK ABOUT A MILE TO THE EAST WILL ACTUALLY BE ALTERED AS WELL! At least that is what the covered heads insinuate.
On the way to Arizona, here in California, the end of two-tracks eastward at CP SP620 THERMAL was stopped by at in dawn lighting, in very low sunlight conditions. UP workers were arriving with their trucks, with headlights on in the semi-darkness. Nothing new seemed to be at the 30 M.P.H. turnout CP. HOWEVER, three signal burial bases were about a tenth of a mile (“tenth of a mile”) to the east, by the paralleling public roadway! Their presence in that local may or may not suggest the CP will be revamped to a 50 M.P.H. turnout.
A roundup of the findings is hoped to be put together in the next three or four days, maybe earlier.
Recently, intermodal containers were observed on the Calexico Sub, at the grounds of an agricultural shipper. This visit, a train was actually present, with three big GE units, on that big circle-like track! And, those GE units were slowly moving the train backwards, stopping and going, positioning each stack of containers so they could be unloaded. It is hoped that operation can be posted about probably sometime after the main posting.
Also, the Roll Lead was visited in Arizona, where a posted 2011 aerial had shown a flagged derail was present on the line. The site was visited, but the flagged derail was no longer present in our 2017. However, nearby were old signals with new heads, and from another location they were photographed. One signal looked strange, with only a two lamp head instead of the normal three lambs head! And it was an ABS signal with an old, large base, not an entrance signal.
Hopefully, much headway can be made today on a posting series.
End of post …
Another great picture! Thanks!
Two questions: One, did you think about trying to pick the brain of one of the signal maintainers to see if they know anything about the possible future of the West Phoenix line or "Welton Branch" as UP calls it now? They might know something although I don't know how approachable they are.
That guy Stan Jefferson from Litchfield walked right up to them and asked them about this back in 2013.
The other question: Do you know what the fate is of the SP's old, open-wire signal code line? I can see in your photo it is still there. Is it still in use? How much time does it have left?
Fred M. Cain (10-9):
Circumstances just didn’t lend itself to ask anyone. Sorry. However, your identifications of the lines that may be under consideration are not clear. What I’ve seen is Wellton to Roll is the Roll Industrial Lead, and from west of Hyder through Phoenix to Picacho (on the Sunset Route) is the Phoenix Subdivision.
Interesting question about the old line side wires! Photos taken this trip show wires in Wellton, but I didn’t focus on them when on site, so I have no idea if live or not used anymore..
Best,
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