Ronald Reagans 93rd Birthday is Today

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cherokee woman

FORGET THE POLITICS HERE, PLEASE.

Don't forget that we are ALL human. That means we are NOT perfect. I know we all like to think of ourselves at times to be PERFECT. But we are not. There is only ONE person who is PERFECT: Our Lord God. And if he can forgive us our stupid thoughts, we should forgive other's stupid thoughts also.

President Reagan is just as human as we are. Maybe he did some things wrong as President, but he does have a disease which is taking his memory more and more each day.

Please, everyone, just wish him a Happy Birthday, and remember him and his family in your prayers. They are going through an awful lot, and they need our prayers. Not our
blasting the man for anything he did in the past. Remember what Jesus told the people in a talk one time: LET HIM WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE. We people on this earth are definitely NOT without sin, so we shouldn't be casting stones at anyone.

Enough said.

AMEN!

[Mookie]

I have a real problem with wishing someone Happy B'day - that caused me economic problems. I didn't do well during the Reagan/Bush/Bush admins. Didn't like Clinton as a person, but did much better in his admin. So still don't care if he is 93 or 23 - he isn't high on my list of people that I will think fondly of....(can't end a sentence with a preposition or a proposition, either one!)

[Anonymous]

Mookie [:)]

Yes Madame, you are correct in your grammer about never ending with a proposition, but your wording is easily corrected by saying, "that I think of fondly." I hope this help you and others in the future.

Willy [8D]

I am sorry that your birthday wishes have turned into a political free for all. I had that happen to me in one of my threads. We must remember that people will be people. Some are good, some are bad. When we make a post it becomes "public property" and subject to the will of the reader/poster. I held back on my post as I choose not to hurt you or incite futher chaos. Unfortunately not everyone did as I did. I agree with many of the things that were said, but they could have been said with a little more tact. Politics will bring out the best and worst in people. I am sorry that one as young as you had to see the adults "act out."

And finally, what you believe or what you don't believe is your choice. However, we will all be held accountable for our actions one of these days. When? Only God knows. But the time will come when every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I hope and pray that our forum member do so willingly.

With these thoughts in mind, I wish you a Good Day.

[dharmon]

Once again, a seemingly inocuous post generates a heated discussion of personal opinions..........good or bad it happens...sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains........

If you take nothing away from these forums ..........If you post the sky is blue, someone will counter....or whether EMDs are better locos than GEs, ALCOs, Baldwins, Lockheeds, Boeings, Dodges, Reeses, M&Ms or whatever, someone will counter........blame Canada, Blame the British, heck blame me...

Someone once said here in the forums that you can argue the basis of facts but you can't argue opinions.....Whether Reagan was a good president or a bad one is your opinion from where you sit or stand or whatever you do..........Those folks who are old enough to have been of cognizant age during his presidency have their opinions based on thier experiences, and those that aren't have theirs based on how history is written......the same can be said of Eisnehower or Kennedy or Lincoln.....though only Mook may be that old......(just kidding).....

Fact he turned 93. Any disagreement? Is there cause to believe he didn't?
Wishing him happy birthday? Your choice.
Good president? Your opinion.

Ths has just been my opinion of course.....

By the way, I just caught up to the SUPERBOWLLLLL thread.....just confirms that some of y'all will argue over just about anything.......

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Once again, a seemingly inocuous post generates a heated discussion of personal opinions..........good or bad it happens...sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains........

If you take nothing away from these forums ..........If you post the sky is blue, someone will counter....or whether EMDs are better locos than GEs, ALCOs, Baldwins, Lockheeds, Boeings, Dodges, Reeses, M&Ms or whatever, someone will counter........blame Canada, Blame the British, heck blame me...

Someone once said here in the forums that you can argue the basis of facts but you can't argue opinions.....Whether Reagan was a good president or a bad one is your opinion from where you sit or stand or whatever you do..........Those folks who are old enough to have been of cognizant age during his presidency have their opinions based on thier experiences, and those that aren't have theirs based on how history is written......the same can be said of Eisnehower or Kennedy or Lincoln.....though only Mook may be that old......(just kidding).....

Fact he turned 93. Any disagreement? Is there cause to believe he didn't?
Wishing him happy birthday? Your choice.
Good president? Your opinion.

Ths has just been my opinion of course.....

By the way, I just caught up to the SUPERBOWLLLLL thread.....just confirms that some of y'all will argue over just about anything.......

Well put!! Religion, Politics, sports, and sexual preferances tend to be the powderkegs in internet discussion today, where the threads run long, and progress runs nil,...Isn't it great to live in a country where we can boast of such freedom of expression?

And for the record (Ed) my comment was not intended to imply that I will cheat the ravages of aging, or "dodge the bullet" but rather was the celebration of those rights in the face of another member trying to tell me what i MUST do, prior to offering my opinion. Not his place, in other words.

[Anonymous]

I hear what most of you are saying but I can't forgive and forget. I'm just too damned bitter.

[Willy2]

Quote: TheAntiGates//
And for the record (Ed) my comment was not intended to imply that I will cheat the ravages of aging, or "dodge the bullet" but rather was the celebration of those rights in the face of another member trying to tell me what i MUST do, prior to offering my opinion. Not his place, in other words.


I was not trying to be snotty, pushy, or act like a "know it all". If anyone who has posted in this topic acts like those three things that I just mentioned it is YOU Mr. AntiGates. I wanted this topic to be a simple happy birthday, but instead you had to come in and make it a riot! As many others have said, we all have our opinions. Some of our opinions are firmly against certain things, but instead of making cruel opinions, you could just keep your mouth shut or rephrase the opinion into a more reasonable manner.
Have you ever heard the phrase If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all? Try and respect that phrase, it'll make you a whole new person!

I hope that you notice that instead of telling you that you MUST keep your mouth shut I told you that [u]MAYBEu] you can keep your mouth shut!!!!

Just because I'm a kid, I'm not going to go and say "Well because you're the grownup, I guess you can make rude remarks about old men." Oh no, this kid isn't going to let it pass without voicing his own opinion too! Try and remember that when you next respond to one of my posts.

I bid you farewell and God's Speed,
Willy

[edblysard]

Antigates,
I was going to respond in like kind, but read the young man's response to you and realized it would be redundent.
For a 7th grader, he seems to hold his own quite well.
After all, he was only wishing an ex President happy birthday, not endorsing that persons politics.

As for cheating the ravages of aging, I wasnt implying you would or could.
I was implying that as one matures into ones final form, you learn the values both of tolerence and paitence.

Funny, the kid caught it, but the "adult" didnt.

Ed

[vsmith]

Willy

The trouble is that your initial post: quote:

"Today, I would like to wish Ronald Reagan happy birthday. He is 93 years old. I think we should offer our prayers for him and Nancy Reagan. With his terrible memory loss, he and his family definitely deserve our prayers."

This is not a simple "happy birthday", by stating that he "definetly deserved our prayers", is a directive, not a statement. It can be interpreted by veiwers out here as: You have to Pray for him whether you like him or not. Thats confrontational, its taking a stand, and its asking for some negative replies, even if you didnt intend it.

It negates the fact that Ronnie Raygun is NOT the most beloved person on earth no matter what your freinds might tell you. Its taken the objectivity out of the posting and turned it into a political lightning rod. Reagan's plight is beside the point here, AntiGates in just making his opinion, points out that lightning rod effect.

If instead you had said something like :

"if anyone else wishes to say Happy Birthday, please do so by leaving a post ..."

Its invitational, not confrontational. It leaves the viewer with the option of just passing the post by if they like me, dont have a high opinion of the Gipper or Nancy"just say no"Reagan.

As you get older I'm sure you'll pick up on how to make such a post without getting shot at from the opposing party.

Anyway thats just my opinion. Vic

[Anonymous]

Man sakes alive

Here, i'll strike you all a deal

You can make fun of my memory, How does thta sound?

I can't even rememebr what i did 5 minutes ago...
My memory is really bad...

So go aherad, I givbe you all permission to make fun of me...

You know why i'm giving you this permission???

Because I can fight back... well At least I can RESPOND!

Picking on Ronald Regan is like kicking over graves at the cemetary...

those are humans beings you've just disrespected... But they Can't fight back... that goes to show the whimps of todays society, picking or PRAYING on the feeble, who cna't respond.

Yeah well I can respond.. so make fun of me...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Antigates,
I was going to respond in like kind, but read the young man's response to you and realized it would be redundent.
For a 7th grader, he seems to hold his own quite well.
After all, he was only wishing an ex President happy birthday, not endorsing that persons politics.

As for cheating the ravages of aging, I wasnt implying you would or could.
I was implying that as one matures into ones final form, you learn the values both of tolerence and paitence.

Funny, the kid caught it, but the "adult" didnt.

Ed

I (respectfully) don't think its an AGE issue Ed,...Do I tell you hown you have to post? Do I set rules for what another member is allowed to express, and what they can't? Do I say "Hey pal, before you do that, GO DO THIS FIRST!"

I may argue the logic of a thread (example: High speed rail) And I may argue why I believe another members rationale (on a topic) is incorrect, but never (other than the "super bowl" thread where I was trying to emphasize this aspect of this forum) will you find me telling another member that they shouldn't express their opinion on a topic.

If "age" is an isse here, I think it is that some members still need to learn that not everyone is going to have an opinion you agree with, that doesn't mean it's a personal insult because they believe differently than you, it just means they are different. Whereas, telling someone what they are supposed to do, implying one knows better than you what thoughts SHOULD be going through your head,..IS an insult..

I took offense at the other members "holier than thou" air in the post, and then he comes back calling me names....

[edblysard]

True,
But, you did realize you were dealing with a 7th grader?
Do you normaly argue with a 7th grade student, or carefully and cautiously teach them, by calmly and clearly explaining your point, and point of view?
Would have hoped trading jabs with a young man was something you would refrain from.
An old fart like me, sure, bring it on.
There may be fault on both sides, but he is a 7th grader, and you...?
Ed

[Willy2]

This is my final posting on this topic.

Mr. Gorbachev, Tear down this wall
Willy

[Anonymous]

A lot of opposing opinions on the subject of Ronald Reagan are showing up here.

one thought for all of is the following:

1. After Pres. Nixon , Congress enacted a law that the Presidential papers of a Pres. shall be released 12 years after they leave office.

2. Pres. Ford and Carter's papers have been released.

3. Pres. Reagan's papers were to be released in Jan. 2001 but George W. invoked Executive Privilege and refused to release them. What is in there that would damage Pres. Reagan's image?


P.S, Pres. H.W. Bush papers under the 12 year rule are to be released in Jan.2005.
If W is reelected, do you think they will be released? Hmmmm.

[Mookie]

Wow - I went home last nite feeling bad about Dharmon and my difference of opinion on politics and come back this morning into a full debate!

Willy - I don't want to be disagreeable with you - we share a state! Just wanted to let you know that I, for one, didn't care for the man, the actor or the president. But then I don't like Madonna or Brittany either. It was a simple statement of my preferences and why. For every discussion, there are opposing points of view.

I personally admire you for taking a stand on what you believe and that you are willing to go up against all these "old" people on the forum. And you do it as a gentleman!

There is a lot of hurt through our nation - especially now. Feelings run very high and everyone has their heros and their monsters. Some are more vocal than others. Don't take it personally. Just be objective.

Mookie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

True,
But, you did realize you were dealing with a 7th grader?
Do you normaly argue with a 7th grade student, or carefully and cautiously teach them, by calmly and clearly explaining your point, and point of view?
Would have hoped trading jabs with a young man was something you would refrain from.
An old fart like me, sure, bring it on.
There may be fault on both sides, but he is a 7th grader, and you...?
Ed

To be honest Ed,...no I didn't....

But then, outside of the remark about "call him, see if he remembers" the only other posts I made to the kid was my original politely worded assessment of the subject of the thread, and :

>>Well, there you were telling everyone the pre-requisites we all must comply with before offering our own thoughts,...how polite do you consider that to be? you forgot to say please...

< Alan Alda voice> Hope it was as good for you as it was for me...</Alan Alda Voice> <<

Which I made only after he snapped my head off.

In retrospect, the "Alan Alda" sarcasm seems (to me) to be the only "hard ball" play I made, that I would do differently if I had it to do over again, Which, compared to the flaming I got, seems fractional....

I am glad that I chose to not respond in like fashion, (name calling) given that he is just a young'n. [8)]

[Anonymous]

Perhaps it is time to let this thread die a "no more posts" death.


Willy meant no harm to anyone.

I sincerely hope that no one meant harm to him.

Please for the sake of the forum let's end our posting in this thread and let time heal the wounds.

This is probally the best thing to do for all involved.

Thanks for your help.

[vsmith]

I'll second that motion.

[Anonymous]

Jim, to be perfectly honest, I couldn't disagree with you more

If someone (Person X), at any point, feels HURT by anohter persons opinion (PERSON Y) Someone has Screwed up big time down the line...

The main point of that.. NO ONe should be hurt by ANYONE elses opinion, Opinion can't be argued with, No one can argue with the way I feel.

Science is defined as something messurable, If it's not messurable it is simply a philosophy not a Science.

Why do people die in Car crashes... It's not the speed that kills...it's not the impact that kills either.

It's the rate of change of speed / over the distance this speed change occured. So If i'm moving at 60 MPh Slow down to 0MPH, in 1.5 yards, well i'm fudged, lets say that

So it's not the impact, or the speed, it's the force of slowing down, and it's inertia

Thats a science statement, you can argue with that, you may agree or disagree,

But if i state that president Regan was a Wooden-headed dumb-dumb, Many people may not see it like that.

It is important to know that, When your expressing your own opinion, do not use words like "you" or "We" opinions should solely be delivered using "I" and other words that describe yourself.

Like i said, Someone screwed up somewhere, and someone reacted in a manor which they shouldn't have..

So who screwed up, The engineer or the Conductor? Can we blame this on a theird party, how about the CTC?

When i say I FEEL... there is nothing you can do about it, thats called, too bad so sad, Opinions are free, and of no charge, but like I continually state, Opinions should have proper proof to back them up.

Jokes should also be omitted from opinions... When it's your opinion, state it, but leave the jokes out.. Thats where i believe the screw up happened, But it was jsut a minor bump in the rails...

And everyone is standing over this little bump pointing and gasping...

Remeber most times it is not the initial problem or statement that fuels the argument, its the Initial Reaction from the stunned/shocked party that fuels arguments.

If we all learned to accept each others opinnion for what it is, we wouldn't have this problem..

You have to accept my opinion, because i don't give a F*** if you don't. Trying to stop the delivery of my opinion is like holding a little umbrealla to a freight train trying to stop it. HOWEVER that being said, when you thiunk like i just did, amke sure your opinion is said properly, Without joking, and lay it out professioanlly, like you would to your BOSS. I mean what i say, I say what i mean, when my opinon is deliverd, I make sure i do it without joking and in an unconfrontational manor.

That way, no one can be offended.