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Amtrak Strike

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Posted by kenneo on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 3:28 AM
Something really important seems to be overlooked in all of the responses - if there is an AMTK only strike, AMTK is "ashes to ashes, AMTK to rust".  The only parts to survive will be those that are funded by local and/or state governments and have hired AMTK to operate their service - such as CalTrans.  Almost - in not everything else - will be gone.  Some will get revived by locals putting up their money for the service desired, but that will take some time.  Those who desire AMTK to disappear will have succeeded byond their wildest expectations.
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Posted by PNWRMNM on Monday, January 7, 2008 10:48 PM

I do not know if it will come to a strike or not, but disagree with Jeaton's expectation that congress will step in.  To the best of my knowledge there has never been an Amtrak only stirke.  Most recent rail (freight and passenger) have been "settled" by congress.  The most important exception being the N&W strike which went for most of 90 days before Carter intervened to save the union's bacon.

A passenger strike would do yery little damage to the economy so congress should have very little interest in intervening and even if they did Bush might have the courage to veto it.  I don't expect congress to do anything and that thought should be weighing on union leadership.  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:00 PM
 jeaton wrote:
 SR1457 wrote:

Will the last 22 posts on here, go back and read original question...I will assume I was only one that did...And ill repeat myself...You heard it here,SECOND time.....NO AMTRAK STRIKE......Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]                                  "ALWAYS PRACTICE SAFE EATING, USE YOUR CONDIMENTS"

I am soooo happy to get this news.  I am sure that union leaders, Amtrak management, Amtrak rank and file, The White House, US Congressmen and thousands of travelers who don't want their plans upset are just as relieved as I am.  We can all sleep so much better knowing that there will be no strike.Whistling [:-^]

Smile [:)]  I guess I won't sell my Amtrak stock after all!Tongue [:P]

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by wabash1 on Monday, January 7, 2008 4:08 PM
 SR1457 wrote:

Will the last 22 posts on here, go back and read original question...I will assume I was only one that did...And ill repeat myself...You heard it here,SECOND time.....NO AMTRAK STRIKE......Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]                                  "ALWAYS PRACTICE SAFE EATING, USE YOUR CONDIMENTS"

Bring to the board real evidance that what you say is true. I have not heard  any word if there is or is not going to be a strike, they can go on strike and there is always a presidential order that could sugest they stay at work, if you strike you strike let them sign all them orders they want how they going to arrest all of us. there is no jail big enough to hold us all. then let us go one step farther who gonna run them trains if we all in jail. I dont think there be a strike either but i think the engineers over there should get some better benifits.

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Posted by JT22CW on Monday, January 7, 2008 1:20 PM

Kudos to Rigel for the correct assessment of unions.

For the record, unions are at their worst when they collude (in secret, of course) with management.  The government, remember, does allow for member recourse against such unions, whereupon such unions can be charged with (and convicted of) failure to represent.  However, this requires, to be effective, members to form a sort of "union within a union", which really should not be.

The government, though, has taken an active role in the interference with business practices throughout the years.  Allowing businesses to outsource to other countries without punishment has severely undermined not only the middle class in this country but also our national security (by making us dependent upon other countries for raw materials related to defense and infrastructure, among many other things) and has turned this economy from a producer into a consumer, which is the ultimate expression of "false economy".

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 7, 2008 11:37 AM

There are good and bad aspects of unions. 

The fact however, remains that unions created the middle class, and continue to support a healthy American economy. 

Unions can and do sometimes protect bad/lazy/incompetent employees. 

But where unions exel is in the fact that they create a more equitable distribution of money.  America's economy is fueled by consumer spending, if employees don't have money to spend, the industries, retail first (Wal-Mart, Target) will feel the pinch.  This will eventually find its way to reduced levels of traffic and profit for railroads.  I find it Ironic that Wal-Mart actually benefits from unionization in this manner. By doing this unions are playing a small part in the battle against corporate greed.

Unions also promote a more experienced and professional workforce. If you were to quit every job just because something made you unhappy about the job, you wouldn't develop the skills that sometimes need years to hone.  Just think of the condition of the railroads if they had the turnover of Mcdonalds.  The skills needed to run a 15000ton or 8000ft train are not learned in a 2 day class.

Some Amtrak workers have been without a contract since the year 2000

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Posted by jeaton on Monday, January 7, 2008 10:02 AM
 SR1457 wrote:

Will the last 22 posts on here, go back and read original question...I will assume I was only one that did...And ill repeat myself...You heard it here,SECOND time.....NO AMTRAK STRIKE......Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]                                  "ALWAYS PRACTICE SAFE EATING, USE YOUR CONDIMENTS"

I am soooo happy to get this news.  I am sure that union leaders, Amtrak management, Amtrak rank and file, The White House, US Congressmen and thousands of travelers who don't want their plans upset are just as relieved as I am.  We can all sleep so much better knowing that there will be no strike.Whistling [:-^]

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by solzrules on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:58 AM

Wow there's a lot of hot air in here......

For those of you who hate the thought of unions - they aren't 100% bad 100% of the time.  My trade union has provided me with a top notch education on how to do my job safely and efficiently.  Yes I pay dues, but they help fund the apprenticeship program which I feel is second to none.  I'm actually mighty proud of it.  Unions have won some pretty stadard labor issues that we take for granted today - 8 hour day, overtime, holidays, etc.  100 years ago these were not normal characteristics of our labor force, and we have unions to thank for this.  They also provide a good avenue for collective bargaining - one entity is answering for all the employees in the local - this isn't always a bad thing.  I am sure that railroad unions provide some level of protection to employees that are trying to do their jobs and go home every night - I know they do for elecrical construction workers. 

One the other hand, there are those who adhere to the union the way one might subscribe to a religion.  Unions can and do get too powerful for their own good.  Collective bargaining works best when the employers and the employees come to the table on an equal footing.  If one has more power than the other, the industry suffers (the brewery industry in Milwaukee is a prime example, or even the automotive industry today).  Unions do not realize that they can gain enough power that they become the exploitive entity that they claim to be against.  There are also serious corruption problems in some unions.  Typically, these are the unions that are so powerful they worry less about collective bargaining and more about padding their own pockets at the expense of the membership - thus exploiting the very people they claim to want to protect. 

In Amtrak's case (at least the food service employees I've talked to on Empire Builder) the employees are paid very well for what they do.  I doubt they leave the train after work and go home to a box in the ditch.  I also don't think they are striking over safety issues.  What is the issue they are striking over?

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by Krazykat112079 on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:51 AM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

I was raised in a Union household and am proud of that fact.  If you don't like the protections that unions won for the working man like the 8-hour day, paid vacations, overtime provisions, etc.; consider working for Wal-Mart, Auchan, or other such anti-union firms.

If you are a fan of the ends-justify-the-means philosophy, by all means be proud, but I for one cannot put my support behind a system that is so tyrannical.  I know of more than one working man that was driven to death because of unions.  One had serious medical conditions and could not afford to strike for a third time in 2 years, even with his wife and kids working.  He was shunned and harrased until the day he died from that cancer.  You can always say that so-and-so did great things because look at what we have now, but one should never forget the evils that were commited to produce it.  Just because someone may disagree with union philosophy doesn't neccessarily mean they hate the working man.

I hope that the Amtrak employees are properly compensated and work in a safe, comfortable environment.  I'll trust the government to make it so.

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Posted by doghouse on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:20 AM
 SR1457 wrote:

Will the last 22 posts on here, go back and read original question...I will assume I was only one that did...And ill repeat myself...You heard it here,SECOND time.....NO AMTRAK STRIKE......Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]                                  "ALWAYS PRACTICE SAFE EATING, USE YOUR CONDIMENTS"

I don't mean to doubt what you say, but do you have proof as to your statement?

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:12 AM
why not have a poll?...."Will Amtrak Strike" yes/no ...I have no idea personally, but I am always quick to respond to those that have very little idea of what it takes to do my job when they make statements like " they should get rid of the unions...if the employees don't like it, let them  quit & find another job"..people like that should have to "walk a mile in our shoes" they wouldn't be so high & mighty after about 6 months of trying to live a railroader's life. SoapBox [soapbox]
 SR1457 wrote:

Will the last 22 posts on here, go back and read original question...I will assume I was only one that did...And ill repeat myself...You heard it here,SECOND time.....NO AMTRAK STRIKE......Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]                                  "ALWAYS PRACTICE SAFE EATING, USE YOUR CONDIMENTS"

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Posted by SR1457 on Monday, January 7, 2008 8:12 AM

Will the last 22 posts on here, go back and read original question...I will assume I was only one that did...And ill repeat myself...You heard it here,SECOND time.....NO AMTRAK STRIKE......Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]                                  "ALWAYS PRACTICE SAFE EATING, USE YOUR CONDIMENTS"

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 7, 2008 7:05 AM
it's hard for some who have never worked for the RR to realize  how different  it is from  most  industry..because of the  very nature of the  danger involved, it's not a question of "if" you will violate a safety rule, but "when"..depending on the severity of the infraction you could face termination or death/injury...it happens every day..factor in sometimes very unfavorable working conditions & relentless fatigue & the problems are compounded.sure, we have the government to keep a watchful eye on things....how's that workin' out? Blush [:I] I'll keep my union thank you very much, even though I know they have a shady history.some representation is better than none. 
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, January 7, 2008 6:59 AM

I was raised in a Union household and am proud of that fact.  If you don't like the protections that unions won for the working man like the 8-hour day, paid vacations, overtime provisions, etc.; consider working for Wal-Mart, Auchan, or other such anti-union firms.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by cnwfan51 on Monday, January 7, 2008 6:29 AM
     As a third generation railroader I have to throw my support and agree with Wabash if the carrires have thier way we would lose our FMLA and pay in more for our insurance and lose most if not all of our benifits that we  have fought to get and keep. I m sorry Mr Ash lost his job but and I know its a sad fact of life that these things happen but unlike most of you I am on call with the rairoad 24/7 so I go to work when ever the phone rings wether it it 2pm or 2am I live in a constant state of Jet Lag I have no set hours or shift and if you FRNS knew or understood this then this talk of a strike woukld make sense and you would be supporting the unions and not slamming them   I have to go work there is a coal train going to Clunton Iowa with my name on it Be safe and Have a good day   Larry
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Posted by wabash1 on Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:14 PM
 Mr_Ash wrote:

Yeah unions have there places and they have done great stuff, that doesnt mean they have to stick around forever taking your money. When I was working construction and got laid off after a couple years they basicly said tough luck let us know when you find a new job so you can give us your money. I have been working security now for 6 years (I went non union 2 years ago when I got promoted) and there union is a joke again just there to take your money. Plus if everyone else goes on strike you cant go to work thats dumb, I'd quit before I ever went on strike. Plus the crap where you can only do certen jobs or someones going to file a fricken grievance cause you just did a job they could have gotten paid for! I just wanna feed those guys and there troll union reps a knuckle sandwich!

I might only be 26 but im not blind as to how things work in this world, the employee's at the plant I work security at cry to the union reps every chance they get over the stupidest stuff filing grievances over anything and everything just because they can and they would rather spend a couple house complaining to supervisors/HR and talking to a union rep than working there fricken job like there getting paid $20 an hour for but there on the clock so who cares! Unions get in the way of everything saying there doing it for the employee's lol! There doing it for the money Angry [:(!]

Here is a good question and an easy way to tell if your union, When you go to work are you going there to Work or to get Paid?

its to bad you are like the many others out there that dont know and have the complex of dont confuse me with the facts when my mind is made up. Unions are still all about protecting your jobs. and protecting the worker. a short line makes less much less than the average railroader, but you dont want to hear that, its already been said by others on here that if it wasnt for unions the wage be down and you would have more derailments and hazardous cargo releases. oh and as far as work or get paid i run the road i work from one end to the other the conductor sleeps i work, hence i get paid . but if you want a real answer i love my job but its all for the retirement, the more i make the better my retirement.

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Posted by chefjavier on Sunday, January 6, 2008 4:56 PM
 Mr_Ash wrote:

Yeah unions have there places and they have done great stuff, that doesnt mean they have to stick around forever taking your money. When I was working construction and got laid off after a couple years they basicly said tough luck let us know when you find a new job so you can give us your money. I have been working security now for 6 years (I went non union 2 years ago when I got promoted) and there union is a joke again just there to take your money. Plus if everyone else goes on strike you cant go to work thats dumb, I'd quit before I ever went on strike. Plus the crap where you can only do certen jobs or someones going to file a fricken grievance cause you just did a job they could have gotten paid for! I just wanna feed those guys and there troll union reps a knuckle sandwich!

I might only be 26 but im not blind as to how things work in this world, the employee's at the plant I work security at cry to the union reps every chance they get over the stupidest stuff filing grievances over anything and everything just because they can and they would rather spend a couple house complaining to supervisors/HR and talking to a union rep than working there fricken job like there getting paid $20 an hour for but there on the clock so who cares! Unions get in the way of everything saying there doing it for the employee's lol! There doing it for the money Angry [:(!]

Here is a good question and an easy way to tell if your union, When you go to work are you going there to Work or to get Paid?

Mr_Ash"

I agree with you on the union issues. I work as Executive in a hotel unionized. To tell you the truth is a pain in a neck. Every time we are putting new ideas to the table to enhance the property. You always have grievance over everything that you could think off. In 1900's union was created to help the employee from unfair labor, wages & safety pratices. In today, society it has change alot from that era. There's gov't dept. like OSHA {Safety} and Labor dept. {wages & discrimination} that you could use and more effective. Guest what.. It's FREE.

The non-union property keep wages current by doing competitive wages with our competition. Plus on yearly basis they employees get their annual raises by merits. Very straight foward.. We take care the hard working employee.My 2 cents [2c] Then, you have those lazy union employees they use the system to protect themselves. Please, I am not saying all the employees are lazy. You know what I mean. Sigh [sigh]

I also work in a union property as a employee. They took my money on a weekly basis. When the company went on strike on February in NJ. It's was cold Dead [xx(] THe worst part that I got discourage. I saw the union represantives drive to the company parking lot with New Cadilac. Give a speech then go on his way. I stay outside freezing my B#%! Off for what?

Banged Head [banghead]

I am not trying to bash no one but, if I did my apology.SoapBox [soapbox]

Javier
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:34 PM
I can't even to begin to imagine what it would be like to not have union representation in an industry that brought us nice little catchy phrases like "Robber Barons".."I've been railroaded".."a Chinaman's chance" etc....pretty much says it all right there! Laugh [(-D]  
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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, January 6, 2008 2:08 PM

If you don't like the union - then quit and go work for one of the hundreds of shortlines and regionals that is non-union.  Have fun working for 6 bucks an hour...

 

Your'e either here for the dough, or you are here for the show.  As for me - I ain't here for the show.  

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:22 AM
 Mr_Ash wrote:

They should get rid of unions, just think of it! No more strikes and no more union dues its win win for everyone Tongue [:P]

If the employee's dont like it they can quit or be fired and find a new job. Smile [:)]

why don't we just get rid of the FRA while were at it?..the STB  & all those other  unnecessary  agencies [Osha etc.]....if the employees don't trust their lives with the Carriers, they can just quit...find another job...just think how much taxes we could save by dismantling these  government agencies...after all, unless you're a railroader, what do they do for you?...SoapBox [soapbox]
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Posted by Mr_Ash on Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:10 AM
 miniwyo wrote:

I guess G.W Bush has a new special fighting move when he wears his cape and the tightey whiteys over the suit and plays pretend superhero around the white house.... "AMTRAK STRIKE!" *BAM!* *POW!* *KLOBBER!*  *BARBRA STRIESAND!*

Now that there is a funny mental picture I dont care who ya are, I used GWB from the robot chicken starwars special for mine lol! Tongue [:P]

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Posted by miniwyo on Sunday, January 6, 2008 10:01 AM

Not meaning to turn this in to anything political, and it should not be construed as such, but just to poke a little fun.... NO POLITICAL COMMENTS PLEASE!

 

 

I guess G.W Bush has a new special fighting move when he wears his cape and the tightey whiteys over the suit and plays pretend superhero around the white house.... "AMTRAK STRIKE!" *BAM!* *POW!* *KLOBBER!*  *BARBRA STRIESAND!*

 

Lol sorry all, I think I am just a bit tired and my sense of humor is reallllllly odd today, but even in the list of discussions that is the first mental image that popped in my head when I saw the title.....

Bergie, if you dont like this one, let me know and I will delete 

RJ

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Posted by Mr_Ash on Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:44 AM

Yeah unions have there places and they have done great stuff, that doesnt mean they have to stick around forever taking your money. When I was working construction and got laid off after a couple years they basicly said tough luck let us know when you find a new job so you can give us your money. I have been working security now for 6 years (I went non union 2 years ago when I got promoted) and there union is a joke again just there to take your money. Plus if everyone else goes on strike you cant go to work thats dumb, I'd quit before I ever went on strike. Plus the crap where you can only do certen jobs or someones going to file a fricken grievance cause you just did a job they could have gotten paid for! I just wanna feed those guys and there troll union reps a knuckle sandwich!

I might only be 26 but im not blind as to how things work in this world, the employee's at the plant I work security at cry to the union reps every chance they get over the stupidest stuff filing grievances over anything and everything just because they can and they would rather spend a couple house complaining to supervisors/HR and talking to a union rep than working there fricken job like there getting paid $20 an hour for but there on the clock so who cares! Unions get in the way of everything saying there doing it for the employee's lol! There doing it for the money Angry [:(!]

Here is a good question and an easy way to tell if your union, When you go to work are you going there to Work or to get Paid?

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Posted by wabash1 on Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:27 AM
 Mr_Ash wrote:

They should get rid of unions, just think of it! No more strikes and no more union dues its win win for everyone Tongue [:P]

If the employee's dont like it they can quit or be fired and find a new job. Smile [:)]

Mr. Ash then just quit. simple like you said. You have no Idea what your saying. your young and have no idea what the unions have done and the things they are doing now. Its easy to complain you have that part down, but if union was forced to go i wouldnt switch for 5.00 a hour, no benifits. yea practice what you preach if you dont like the unions quit the railroad nobody is holding a gun to your head to stay.  I can honestly say ( or bet money on) that you have never been on strike or can remeber the last railroad strike. 

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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sunday, January 6, 2008 8:53 AM
A revolution.
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Posted by CG9602 on Sunday, January 6, 2008 7:47 AM
What would have to happen in order for the dispute to be settled by binding arbitration ?

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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Saturday, January 5, 2008 10:19 PM

Since the unions went through every step of the RLA there won't be injunctions, cause the strike is 100% legal. To step in and prohibit due process would violate the law that Congress themself wrote.

 If president ordered a halt to strike it would be dumbest thing to do so close to presidential election.

And if we trhe people let them prevent a legal strike we may just as well declare this country as a communist state with no rights for the people.

 My opinion a strike would cost more in economic damage than at this point just going with PEB recommendations.

 The cost of contract no more than a hand full of sand in a gulf war.

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Posted by RudyRockvilleMD on Saturday, January 5, 2008 9:58 PM

So far a presidential emergency board has proposed a settlement which has started the clock ticking on a 30 day cooling off period. If either Amtrak or its unions reject the board's recommendations then the unions are theoretically free  to strike. But, in the past widespread railroad strikes, haven't lasted long, have  were prevented by injunctions, or Congress has legislated settlements. Will there be a strike? Stay tuned.   

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Posted by chefjavier on Saturday, January 5, 2008 4:21 PM
 Mr_Ash wrote:

They should get rid of unions, just think of it! No more strikes and no more union dues its win win for everyone Tongue [:P]

If the employee's dont like it they can quit or be fired and find a new job. Smile [:)]

I agree with you!

Javier
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Posted by Mr_Ash on Saturday, January 5, 2008 2:20 PM

They should get rid of unions, just think of it! No more strikes and no more union dues its win win for everyone Tongue [:P]

If the employee's dont like it they can quit or be fired and find a new job. Smile [:)]

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