http://thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080103/NEWS01/801030409
As if we haven't heard enough exscuses for car v. train incidents, this is a new one. I guess you really shouldn't take that friendly GPS voice at its word, right?
On a more positive note, the driver will be held liable for the damage caused because of his inability to think for himself.
A few of the quotes from the Metro-North spokeperson were, to me, real classics!
from the article:
"One computer brain listening to another," Brucker said, chuckling, this morning.
Brucker added, "He tried to stop the train by waving his arms, which apparently was not totally effective in slowing the train."
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
eolafan wrote:This is a perfect example of how an education alone will not make you "smart" enough to be a player in our modern world. One can still be educated and stupid/clueless at the same time.
This is also a perfect example of how we are allowing technology to do our thinking for us. Does any one out there know, or remember that computers of any type have a built in GIGO factor?? (Garbage In, Garbage Out) In other words, a computer is as good as the software that is running on it, which in turn is as good as the person/people that wrote it.
One would think, that upon seeing the fact that he was being told to turn right onto the railroad tracks, he would have taken a moment to consider that the GPS was telling him to do something wrong.....apparently the thought never crossed his mind.
Computers are great things....but... well to quote a line from Tom Clancy's "Hunt for Red October". ".....it's one thing to use a computer as a tool, quite another to let it do your thinking for you."
In regards to education, sometimes it is "better to have common sense without education, than education without common sense". As a 9-1-1 operator, I dealt with many situations where people simply should have known better, but they didn't..... some examples:
The mixing of bleach and ammonia, so she could get something "really clean":
The degreasing of automobile engine parts in gasoline, while lighting a cigar
Wanting to search for a gas leak with a match, using the assumption, that, since "natural gas" is "natural" it won't burn.
The retrieving of a child's toy airplane glider from the electrical service drop to the home with an aluminum ladder, because, as the caller stated "aluminum isn't really metal"
Mixing a "shock treatment" for the family swimming pool, in an enclosed back porch, so the fumes wouldn't bother the elderly neighbors.
Who were these people???? Every one of them was a person with at least one college degree, and in the upper middle, to upper income bracket, but the list goes on and on. I have always believed that no matter how many warnings, cautions, alterts, or what have you that is applied to anything, there will always be someone who figures "it won't happen to me". Common sense would have told me to not turn right on the railroad tracks. Heck, if my GPS told me to turn right on the railroad tracks, I would have turned it off right then and there. But, then, logic would dictate, that if there was a street just visible across the tracks, then that is what the GPS is referring to, not the tracks themselves, but I digress.
Fortunately, the only injury the man received was a bruised ego....it could have been worse, alot worse. I wonder how trusting he will be of a GPS system next time.
Give me a good map, and a compass any day.
Surveyors message board over at www.rpls.com is having fun with this as well. The "Don't Think - Save Brain Cells" crowd appears to be getting larger.
Wouldn't register with our errant driver or the newsies, BUT - The GPS worked just fine for the positional tolerances it has. There might be a GIS or a software minor issue (maybe). The big issue remains USER ERROR. (the general public is clueless about GPS or GIS....they just push da' buttons and it magically works)
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding wrote: I suppose, this will lead to one of those goofy warning labels that everybody make fun of? I'll suggest: "Warning: This GPS device is not a substitute for a brain."
I honestly could see them putting this statement into the owner's manual: "Visually verify that you are intersecting a street before making a turn based on the GPS unit's directions." And they'll stick it in with the line reading: "Do not immerse in water, especially when it is still attached to your car."
Cut the fellow some slack folks... Maybe he thought this was an area that still has "Street Running". Maybe he was used to seeing streets with trolley rails in them; that used to be very common.
Then again, I have found that, at least with my GPS system, it is NEVER so accurate in saying WHEN to make the turn that I would be THAT trusting to just turn the wheel at the moment it says, "Turn Right". Besides, it often tells me to turn at an Interstate exit after I am past halfway around the cloverleaf.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
My GPS is definitely low-end. I don't use it for navigation often, but if I am letting it run while I'm going down the road, it often amuses me by showing me several yards off the road on one side or the other.
And, as I've mentioned before, I've heard that some truck drivers use their GPS for guidance while driving in less-than-optimum conditions (snow, fog). IIRC, the impression I got was that they essentially couldn't see the end of their hood, but forged ahead anyhow, based on the display of their GPS.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
One time I turned into a compound driving by GPS in very bad fog. The new road turned out to be about 100 yards further down. Another update was needed for the GPS.
I still have the GPS today, a old Rand unit with the programs to run it. Just no laptop for it. I believe it was good to about plus or minus 25 feet radius.
Semper Vaporo wrote: Cut the fellow some slack folks... Maybe he thought this was an area that still has "Street Running". Maybe he was used to seeing streets with trolley rails in them; that used to be very common. Then again, I have found that, at least with my GPS system, it is NEVER so accurate in saying WHEN to make the turn that I would be THAT trusting to just turn the wheel at the moment it says, "Turn Right". Besides, it often tells me to turn at an Interstate exit after I am past halfway around the cloverleaf.
From the surveyor's message board:
Re: GPS and RR'sPosted By sicilian cowboy on 1/4/2008 at 2:09 PMThe crossing in question (Green Lane) is a fairly level, gated crossing, a two lane street crossing two electrified (third rail) tracks. I have crossed this location, while doing some work for Metro North at one of the nearby bridges over the tracks.Unless this guy got caught between the two gates as they came down, there is no way to be "stuck" at this location.Look for Green Lane, Bedford, NY in windows live local, they have a nice bird's-eye ortho view of the crossing.Modified By sicilian cowboy on 1/4/2008 at 2:10 PM
Somebody please take the techno-lemming's driving priviledges away and make him start over again - before he kills somebody. (won't happen, this is "normal" for California)
Krazykat112079 wrote:This reminds me of a story that a pilot friend told me. He had a buddy, also a pilot, who was from Europe and never owned a car, using public transportation all the time. He decided to tour the US by renting an RV and driving across country. After going into the back to make a sandwich, he was rudely introduced to the fact that cruise control is not the same as autopilot as the RV rolled off the highway and off into a field.
Priceless!!
Anyway, the original post made me think of this quote (author escapes me for now), I guess it's also true for GPS units:
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.
I thought I saw this somewhere before http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp .
mudchicken wrote: Surveyors message board over at www.rpls.com is having fun with this as well. The "Don't Think - Save Brain Cells" crowd appears to be getting larger.Wouldn't register with our errant driver or the newsies, BUT - The GPS worked just fine for the positional tolerances it has. There might be a GIS or a software minor issue (maybe). The big issue remains USER ERROR. (the general public is clueless about GPS or GIS....they just push da' buttons and it magically works)
I just recieved a navigation unit for Christmas and learned real quickly not to trust them. It was trying to take me all kinds of crazy routes through Milwaukee, and went completely haywire when we were passing through Kansas City on I70. Once we cleared the big cities, it operated just fine. If I depended solely on that GPS unit to get me through Milwaukee, who knows where I may have ended up.
SealBook27 wrote: I think I'll save my money and continue using a road atlas.
I bought mine for two things - being able to provide coordinates for medevac (air ambulance) helicopters and for surveying the railroad I volunteer on, mainly to learn the profile.
But that does remind me of something that happened one day as I was surveying from the baggage car, which serves as our open air car. The magnetic remote antenna was stuck on the roof of the car, with the cable coming in through a baggage door. The GPS and a notebook sat on the workdesk as I watched for points of interest to landmark on the GPS. One passenger, with a straight face, asked me if I was steering the train. It took some restraint to keep from doubling over in laughter as I explained what I was doing...
mudchicken wrote:Somebody please take the techno-lemming's driving priviledges away and make him start over again - before he kills somebody. (won't happen, this is "normal" for California)
Sigh - I remember when California drivers were much more competent than the current crop 'blessed' by the DMV. That was back in the days when the "average" driver would get a ticket every 18 months (figure derived from the number of tickets written per year was 2/3rds the number of drivers).
Reminds me of a comment about the first accident between a Blue Line train and a car in Long Beach. The driver claimed he saw the train but didn't believe it - provoking a comment from the friend telling the story "Is it normal for you to have hallucinations while driving?"
The bottom line is dumb!! He may be smart in books but dump in logic. Let's not sugar coated.
There are THREE sources of error in GPS maping systems.
One, is the GPS signals themselves. They are only accurate to some number of feet. I know there are claims of millimeters of accuracy, but that is just not true, unless you have additional radio signals that the general GPS receiver in your car is not designed to receive, (and would only work near certain major areas, like airports and harbors). Errors come from slight errors in the clocks in the satelites sending the signals, errors in the signals induced by atmospheric conditions and signal reflections, etc., and errors in the clock in your GPS receiver (the biggest source of signal error!), and a dozen other little things.
The second source of errors is in the Maps being displayed. The data for the maps is NOT accurate. They were made from aerial photos and someone sitting at a computer with a digitizing tablet (a low paying, boring job). The photo is stuck on the tablet and a known point on that photo is pointed at with a digitizing pen by the person and the coordinates are typed into the computer.
BUT, just how accurate was the person when they pointed at the place on the photo? The photo MAY be a 12"x12" image that covers maybe 1/2mileX1/2-mile. They select an intersection of two roads and digitize that point and the computer records the position... but it could be off by some distance due to distortion or parallax in the photo AND inaccurate placement of the pointer device by the operator.
If the person was off by only 1 one-hundredth of an inch, that is a 26-ft error! As they start to digitize one of the roads, if it winds around, how many points does the person digitize for it. One per inch along the length of the road? If they do more then the database gets really big, and if they do few(er) the road could make an "S" curve and that would not show up on the map because YOUR computer (when it displays the map for you) only draws straight lines between the digitized points.
If your GPS device says your latitude and longetude are 33d55'53.32"N by 118d24'59.91"W, you are probably within 20 feet of those actual "coordinates" on the face of the earth.
But projecting those coordinates on the computer generated map could put you in the middle of the main runway at LAX when you are really on I-105.
The other adjuncts to GPS that will give you more accuracy in position would be of little use if you do not have more accurate maps in the computer to display to you as it projects your position onto it.
A GPS receiver in your car is really useful, but it REQUIRES some "sense" to use it. And it is the lack of that sense that is the third source of error in GPS systems and it sure seems to be THE *major* source of error!
Forget about the GPS !
He ran down the tracks toward the oncoming train ! ! ! Did he have any idear what that outside THIRD RAIL was for, or was he just lucky ?
Few places in the U.S. use 660 DC Third Rail for anything except Subway lines. In the New York City area it is used for Main Line Commuter Rail, except the New Haven Line.
The Outside Third Rail breaks at any Grade Crossing and picks up again on the other side. BUT if you turn down the track, look out where you step. Put your foot under the rail and you are dead.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
I don't know the configuration of the crossing so I cannot judge whether the driver should have recognized that he was not turning onto a street. Most crossings are obviously NOT a street but I have seen a few where there is some sort of paving that extends along the tracks for some distance from the actual cross street. If it was dark or raining or he was severely distracted he might have thought it was a street and by the time he recognized his mistake he may have been on the rails.
Many cars have a "gauge" that is just a very small amount less than the "outside gauge" of standard gauge track and the tires will flex to spread that very small amount and let the car drop down and straddle the rails. At that point the car will be VERY stuck and no amount of gunning the engine will get the car to move. The shape that the tires take when spread over the rails just forces the car lower on the rails if the wheels rotate. The car HAS to be "lifted" off the rails before it can be moved.
Thus, once on the rails, the car was STUCK. At that point, PANIC surely takes hold and getting out of his car and running down the track toward an approaching train was the better of the two natural inclinations that a person will have (the other one is freezing in position in the car and getting killed!).
Granted, running along the third rail is DANGEROUS and an ignorant thing to do. Most folk really do not understand the dangers of electrical current. There is this assumption that there will be some sort of warning that you are about to be electricuted and you will be able to jump away before it "strikes". But, there is NO warning and no "threat" indication, it just kills when you get too near... you don't even need to actually "contact" it. "Too near" is a matter of what voltage it is.
The "Best" alternative would be to run away from the impending accident (more in the direction of the approaching train) so that you are not in the path of any debris thrown from the impact.
If he turned because his GPS said so, he was ignorant of the accuracy of GPS and his mapping system. If his car got stuck he was ignorant of that fact that it would get stuck. If he ran along the third rail, he was ignorant of the dangers of electricity. At least he wasn't so stupid as to sit in his car and blow the horn at the approaching train!
I have heard it said, "the law says ignorance is no excuse", so, in my opinion, he is liable for any and all damages.
DMUinCT wrote: Forget about the GPS ! He ran down the tracks toward the oncoming train ! ! ! Did he have any idear what that outside THIRD RAIL was for, or was he just lucky ?
He should have stood up on it the engineer would have been able to see him waving better
What I dont get is why did he drive a rental car from NY to CA
csmith9474 wrote: Krazykat112079 wrote:This reminds me of a story that a pilot friend told me. He had a buddy, also a pilot, who was from Europe and never owned a car, using public transportation all the time. He decided to tour the US by renting an RV and driving across country. After going into the back to make a sandwich, he was rudely introduced to the fact that cruise control is not the same as autopilot as the RV rolled off the highway and off into a field.I thought I saw this somewhere before http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp .
The version I heard of this (back when we were on good relations with Iran) was an Iranian pilot, in the US for training, bought a new RV and headed out with it. Same story about the cruise control and making the sandwich.
Mr_Ash wrote: DMUinCT wrote: Forget about the GPS ! He ran down the tracks toward the oncoming train ! ! ! Did he have any idear what that outside THIRD RAIL was for, or was he just lucky ?He should have stood up on it the engineer would have been able to see him waving better What I dont get is why did he drive a rental car from NY to CA
If he had stood up on the car, we could see this under the "Darwin Awards."
According to the newspaper story, he was from California and working temporarily in the NYC area. Most people rent cars in the area of their temporary work for the duration of that work.
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