Semper Vaporo wrote: SchemerBob wrote: ...As for GPS, I think it is completely unnecessary. All you really need to do to get somewhere is to look at a road map. Is that so hard? There are route signs on highways, you know. Then if you can't find your way in a town/city you can ask for directions from a local....OH DEAR! You obviously didn't get the memo...MEN DO NOT ASK FOR DIRECTIONS!Paper maps are only allowed in two circumstances.First, if the man made the map himself. In that instance refering to the map is just the man verifying his own work.Second, use of a map is allowed if the only other recourse is to ask for directions. It is best that nobody see it occur, except when there is an overwhelming need to get the spouse off'n yer back.Use of GPS is a great solution when the inate masculine "Dead-Reckoning" neurons are impaired for some reason, causing one to have to stoop so low as to "need" a map; BUT! Because you are using a computer, it shows a certain masculine techno-savvy that masks the use of the map and makes it okay.
SchemerBob wrote: ...As for GPS, I think it is completely unnecessary. All you really need to do to get somewhere is to look at a road map. Is that so hard? There are route signs on highways, you know. Then if you can't find your way in a town/city you can ask for directions from a local....
...As for GPS, I think it is completely unnecessary. All you really need to do to get somewhere is to look at a road map. Is that so hard? There are route signs on highways, you know. Then if you can't find your way in a town/city you can ask for directions from a local....
OH DEAR! You obviously didn't get the memo...
MEN DO NOT ASK FOR DIRECTIONS!
Paper maps are only allowed in two circumstances.
First, if the man made the map himself. In that instance refering to the map is just the man verifying his own work.
Second, use of a map is allowed if the only other recourse is to ask for directions. It is best that nobody see it occur, except when there is an overwhelming need to get the spouse off'n yer back.
Use of GPS is a great solution when the inate masculine "Dead-Reckoning" neurons are impaired for some reason, causing one to have to stoop so low as to "need" a map; BUT! Because you are using a computer, it shows a certain masculine techno-savvy that masks the use of the map and makes it okay.
Krazykat112079 wrote: vsmith wrote: Krazykat112079 wrote:This reminds me of a story that a pilot friend told me. He had a buddy, also a pilot, who was from Europe and never owned a car, using public transportation all the time. He decided to tour the US by renting an RV and driving across country. After going into the back to make a sandwich, he was rudely introduced to the fact that cruise control is not the same as autopilot as the RV rolled off the highway and off into a field.Nice one, Urban Legend though, old one, many varients, this ones an interesting version, usually involves driving off cliff. BTW seen the movie "The Darwin Awards"? This story has a very promenent part in it.The answer is no and until I recieved the first of many responses to it in this thread, I fully believed it. In my defense, the man that told it to me was an important person in my high school years. He was one of my church youth group leaders who, among many things, taught me how to drive stick and took me out water skiing on his own time after I had hurt myself on a mission trip and was unable to ski with everyone else. I had no reason to doubt his story until this thread.
vsmith wrote: Krazykat112079 wrote:This reminds me of a story that a pilot friend told me. He had a buddy, also a pilot, who was from Europe and never owned a car, using public transportation all the time. He decided to tour the US by renting an RV and driving across country. After going into the back to make a sandwich, he was rudely introduced to the fact that cruise control is not the same as autopilot as the RV rolled off the highway and off into a field.Nice one, Urban Legend though, old one, many varients, this ones an interesting version, usually involves driving off cliff. BTW seen the movie "The Darwin Awards"? This story has a very promenent part in it.
Krazykat112079 wrote:This reminds me of a story that a pilot friend told me. He had a buddy, also a pilot, who was from Europe and never owned a car, using public transportation all the time. He decided to tour the US by renting an RV and driving across country. After going into the back to make a sandwich, he was rudely introduced to the fact that cruise control is not the same as autopilot as the RV rolled off the highway and off into a field.
The answer is no and until I recieved the first of many responses to it in this thread, I fully believed it. In my defense, the man that told it to me was an important person in my high school years. He was one of my church youth group leaders who, among many things, taught me how to drive stick and took me out water skiing on his own time after I had hurt myself on a mission trip and was unable to ski with everyone else. I had no reason to doubt his story until this thread.
Dont feel bad, I was thourgholy bummed out when I found that some of my favorite stories turned out to be Urban Legends. Whenever someone tells you its a freind of a friend sort of story, thats when ya go OK, maybe...Always remember, before the advent of the internet, very few people were aware that most of these stories were aprocryphil. In fact it wasnt until author Jan Brunevand started cataloging these stories and publishing them, that people started to realize just how many of these thier were...
Oh and the stories that were bogus? ...the JATO Chevy Imapla (guy straps JATO rocket to car, fires it off, goes 300mph and hits mountain), and the Human Polaris missle (guy tries to kill animal in angled drain culvert by pouring gas down it, then proceeds to claim his prize by crawling down gets stuck, cant see, so lights match, and FOOM! Human Polaris launched out of drain pipe)
Have fun with your trains
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
erikem wrote: mudchicken wrote: Somebody please take the techno-lemming's driving priviledges away and make him start over again - before he kills somebody. (won't happen, this is "normal" for California)Sigh - I remember when California drivers were much more competent than the current crop 'blessed' by the DMV. That was back in the days when the "average" driver would get a ticket every 18 months (figure derived from the number of tickets written per year was 2/3rds the number of drivers).Reminds me of a comment about the first accident between a Blue Line train and a car in Long Beach. The driver claimed he saw the train but didn't believe it - provoking a comment from the friend telling the story "Is it normal for you to have hallucinations while driving?"
mudchicken wrote: Somebody please take the techno-lemming's driving priviledges away and make him start over again - before he kills somebody. (won't happen, this is "normal" for California)
Somebody please take the techno-lemming's driving priviledges away and make him start over again - before he kills somebody. (won't happen, this is "normal" for California)
Sigh - I remember when California drivers were much more competent than the current crop 'blessed' by the DMV. That was back in the days when the "average" driver would get a ticket every 18 months (figure derived from the number of tickets written per year was 2/3rds the number of drivers).
Reminds me of a comment about the first accident between a Blue Line train and a car in Long Beach. The driver claimed he saw the train but didn't believe it - provoking a comment from the friend telling the story "Is it normal for you to have hallucinations while driving?"
Driver competency in California today depends which brand of cereal box they get there license from. Sad to say I see absolutly horrid drivers on a daily basis. What really cracks me up about this story is that the guys a freakin computer programmer, not a low IQ fry cook job in any way shape or form. Worst are either giant SUV drivers who think their cars make them omnipotent, or luxury sedan driver jawflapping on their cellphones while writing notes and reading a document as they sail down the road at 80mph.
THIS IS THE VOICE OF GARMIN THE OMNIPOTENT! TURN DUMMY TURN!
stupid driver is as stupid driver does what even stupider computer voice tells it to do....
Also...
Nice one, Urban Legend though, old one, many varients, this ones an interesting version, usually involves driving off cliff. BTW seen the movie "The Darwin Awards"? This story has a very promenent part in it.
Properly used, a GPS can be a great tool for those who truly need it. I'm not sure I want some guy driving down the road with a map unfolded in his lap (as you know they would - who wants to pull over to the side of the road?).
The key, of course, is "used properly." I used my GPS somewhat on my way to the Richmond (VA) airport last fall. Signage wasn't as helpful as it could have been, and trying to get lined up in the proper lane was important, so I verified how far it was to what I was looking for once or twice.
The folks to take the instructions from their GPS and act on them without further investigation deserve exactly what they get.
Then there's the commercial with the guy who's talking to his wife on the cellphone when the sexy female voice announces that he's arrived someplace he maybe shouldn't have been...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
This reminds me of that woman who drove onto the tracks in front of the Amtrak Crescent last year. It was caught on tape by a cop who saw what happened from a nearby road and got her out of the car just in time. From what I remember, she did the same thing - turned right on to the railroad tracks. In this case, though, it wasn't GPS related, instead it was - suprise, suprise - talking on the cell phone while driving.
As for GPS, I think it is completely unnecessary. All you really need to do to get somewhere is to look at a road map. Is that so hard? There are route signs on highways, you know. Then if you can't find your way in a town/city you can ask for directions from a local.
As has been stated earlier, computers are only as smart as the people who make them. But my guess as to what happened in this case is that the GPS receiver was telling the guy to turn on a road that was just across the tracks. I would expect that it would give you a little warning before saying "turn left" "turn right". The problem here is people depend on electronics too much. Electronics are meant to be used as tools, not as a replacement to your brains.
spokyone wrote:I use a moderately priced handheld GPS. I learned a long time ago not to trust it for directions in large cities with interstate cloverleaf. Washington DC comes to mind. Of course MapQuest has mistakes in their database also. When planning my route at home, Google Earth and my map software alert me to interesting RR junctions and bridges as well as non RR attractions. It is easy to transfer waypoints to the unit and then find the little dirt road that takes me to the waypoint. I tried the DeLorme maps before, but I like my current system better. And as a bonus, GPS sure makes it easy to find my truck in the airport parking lot.
I don't trust Mapquest at all. It is alright for a general idea of what route to take, but after finding out that it sent me almost an hour out of the way once, I just assume compare everything against a map.
solzrules wrote: http://thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080103/NEWS01/801030409As if we haven't heard enough exscuses for car v. train incidents, this is a new one. I guess you really shouldn't take that friendly GPS voice at its word, right?On a more positive note, the driver will be held liable for the damage caused because of his inability to think for himself.
http://thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080103/NEWS01/801030409
As if we haven't heard enough exscuses for car v. train incidents, this is a new one. I guess you really shouldn't take that friendly GPS voice at its word, right?
On a more positive note, the driver will be held liable for the damage caused because of his inability to think for himself.
You cannot fix stupid. Ron White says this a lot.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
tree68 wrote:And, as I've mentioned before, I've heard that some truck drivers use their GPS for guidance while driving in less-than-optimum conditions (snow, fog). IIRC, the impression I got was that they essentially couldn't see the end of their hood, but forged ahead anyhow, based on the display of their GPS.
And, as I've mentioned before, I've heard that some truck drivers use their GPS for guidance while driving in less-than-optimum conditions (snow, fog). IIRC, the impression I got was that they essentially couldn't see the end of their hood, but forged ahead anyhow, based on the display of their GPS.
I would not be surprised to hear this be one of the major causes of the huge pile-up near Madison, WI on the fog choked stretch of I90. One of the witness accounts say that everyone was slowing down and a truck came up from behind and began plowing through everything.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Mr_Ash wrote: DMUinCT wrote: Forget about the GPS ! He ran down the tracks toward the oncoming train ! ! ! Did he have any idear what that outside THIRD RAIL was for, or was he just lucky ?He should have stood up on it the engineer would have been able to see him waving better What I dont get is why did he drive a rental car from NY to CA
DMUinCT wrote: Forget about the GPS ! He ran down the tracks toward the oncoming train ! ! ! Did he have any idear what that outside THIRD RAIL was for, or was he just lucky ?
Forget about the GPS !
He ran down the tracks toward the oncoming train ! ! ! Did he have any idear what that outside THIRD RAIL was for, or was he just lucky ?
He should have stood up on it the engineer would have been able to see him waving better
What I dont get is why did he drive a rental car from NY to CA
If he had stood up on the car, we could see this under the "Darwin Awards."
According to the newspaper story, he was from California and working temporarily in the NYC area. Most people rent cars in the area of their temporary work for the duration of that work.
csmith9474 wrote: Krazykat112079 wrote:This reminds me of a story that a pilot friend told me. He had a buddy, also a pilot, who was from Europe and never owned a car, using public transportation all the time. He decided to tour the US by renting an RV and driving across country. After going into the back to make a sandwich, he was rudely introduced to the fact that cruise control is not the same as autopilot as the RV rolled off the highway and off into a field.I thought I saw this somewhere before http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp .
I thought I saw this somewhere before http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp .
The version I heard of this (back when we were on good relations with Iran) was an Iranian pilot, in the US for training, bought a new RV and headed out with it. Same story about the cruise control and making the sandwich.
I don't know the configuration of the crossing so I cannot judge whether the driver should have recognized that he was not turning onto a street. Most crossings are obviously NOT a street but I have seen a few where there is some sort of paving that extends along the tracks for some distance from the actual cross street. If it was dark or raining or he was severely distracted he might have thought it was a street and by the time he recognized his mistake he may have been on the rails.
Many cars have a "gauge" that is just a very small amount less than the "outside gauge" of standard gauge track and the tires will flex to spread that very small amount and let the car drop down and straddle the rails. At that point the car will be VERY stuck and no amount of gunning the engine will get the car to move. The shape that the tires take when spread over the rails just forces the car lower on the rails if the wheels rotate. The car HAS to be "lifted" off the rails before it can be moved.
Thus, once on the rails, the car was STUCK. At that point, PANIC surely takes hold and getting out of his car and running down the track toward an approaching train was the better of the two natural inclinations that a person will have (the other one is freezing in position in the car and getting killed!).
Granted, running along the third rail is DANGEROUS and an ignorant thing to do. Most folk really do not understand the dangers of electrical current. There is this assumption that there will be some sort of warning that you are about to be electricuted and you will be able to jump away before it "strikes". But, there is NO warning and no "threat" indication, it just kills when you get too near... you don't even need to actually "contact" it. "Too near" is a matter of what voltage it is.
The "Best" alternative would be to run away from the impending accident (more in the direction of the approaching train) so that you are not in the path of any debris thrown from the impact.
If he turned because his GPS said so, he was ignorant of the accuracy of GPS and his mapping system. If his car got stuck he was ignorant of that fact that it would get stuck. If he ran along the third rail, he was ignorant of the dangers of electricity. At least he wasn't so stupid as to sit in his car and blow the horn at the approaching train!
I have heard it said, "the law says ignorance is no excuse", so, in my opinion, he is liable for any and all damages.
Few places in the U.S. use 660 DC Third Rail for anything except Subway lines. In the New York City area it is used for Main Line Commuter Rail, except the New Haven Line.
The Outside Third Rail breaks at any Grade Crossing and picks up again on the other side. BUT if you turn down the track, look out where you step. Put your foot under the rail and you are dead.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
There are THREE sources of error in GPS maping systems.
One, is the GPS signals themselves. They are only accurate to some number of feet. I know there are claims of millimeters of accuracy, but that is just not true, unless you have additional radio signals that the general GPS receiver in your car is not designed to receive, (and would only work near certain major areas, like airports and harbors). Errors come from slight errors in the clocks in the satelites sending the signals, errors in the signals induced by atmospheric conditions and signal reflections, etc., and errors in the clock in your GPS receiver (the biggest source of signal error!), and a dozen other little things.
The second source of errors is in the Maps being displayed. The data for the maps is NOT accurate. They were made from aerial photos and someone sitting at a computer with a digitizing tablet (a low paying, boring job). The photo is stuck on the tablet and a known point on that photo is pointed at with a digitizing pen by the person and the coordinates are typed into the computer.
BUT, just how accurate was the person when they pointed at the place on the photo? The photo MAY be a 12"x12" image that covers maybe 1/2mileX1/2-mile. They select an intersection of two roads and digitize that point and the computer records the position... but it could be off by some distance due to distortion or parallax in the photo AND inaccurate placement of the pointer device by the operator.
If the person was off by only 1 one-hundredth of an inch, that is a 26-ft error! As they start to digitize one of the roads, if it winds around, how many points does the person digitize for it. One per inch along the length of the road? If they do more then the database gets really big, and if they do few(er) the road could make an "S" curve and that would not show up on the map because YOUR computer (when it displays the map for you) only draws straight lines between the digitized points.
If your GPS device says your latitude and longetude are 33d55'53.32"N by 118d24'59.91"W, you are probably within 20 feet of those actual "coordinates" on the face of the earth.
But projecting those coordinates on the computer generated map could put you in the middle of the main runway at LAX when you are really on I-105.
The other adjuncts to GPS that will give you more accuracy in position would be of little use if you do not have more accurate maps in the computer to display to you as it projects your position onto it.
A GPS receiver in your car is really useful, but it REQUIRES some "sense" to use it. And it is the lack of that sense that is the third source of error in GPS systems and it sure seems to be THE *major* source of error!
Semper Vaporo wrote: Cut the fellow some slack folks... Maybe he thought this was an area that still has "Street Running". Maybe he was used to seeing streets with trolley rails in them; that used to be very common. Then again, I have found that, at least with my GPS system, it is NEVER so accurate in saying WHEN to make the turn that I would be THAT trusting to just turn the wheel at the moment it says, "Turn Right". Besides, it often tells me to turn at an Interstate exit after I am past halfway around the cloverleaf.
Cut the fellow some slack folks... Maybe he thought this was an area that still has "Street Running". Maybe he was used to seeing streets with trolley rails in them; that used to be very common.
Then again, I have found that, at least with my GPS system, it is NEVER so accurate in saying WHEN to make the turn that I would be THAT trusting to just turn the wheel at the moment it says, "Turn Right". Besides, it often tells me to turn at an Interstate exit after I am past halfway around the cloverleaf.
The bottom line is dumb!! He may be smart in books but dump in logic. Let's not sugar coated.
mudchicken wrote:Somebody please take the techno-lemming's driving priviledges away and make him start over again - before he kills somebody. (won't happen, this is "normal" for California)
SealBook27 wrote: I think I'll save my money and continue using a road atlas.
I bought mine for two things - being able to provide coordinates for medevac (air ambulance) helicopters and for surveying the railroad I volunteer on, mainly to learn the profile.
But that does remind me of something that happened one day as I was surveying from the baggage car, which serves as our open air car. The magnetic remote antenna was stuck on the roof of the car, with the cable coming in through a baggage door. The GPS and a notebook sat on the workdesk as I watched for points of interest to landmark on the GPS. One passenger, with a straight face, asked me if I was steering the train. It took some restraint to keep from doubling over in laughter as I explained what I was doing...
mudchicken wrote: Surveyors message board over at www.rpls.com is having fun with this as well. The "Don't Think - Save Brain Cells" crowd appears to be getting larger.Wouldn't register with our errant driver or the newsies, BUT - The GPS worked just fine for the positional tolerances it has. There might be a GIS or a software minor issue (maybe). The big issue remains USER ERROR. (the general public is clueless about GPS or GIS....they just push da' buttons and it magically works)
Surveyors message board over at www.rpls.com is having fun with this as well. The "Don't Think - Save Brain Cells" crowd appears to be getting larger.
Wouldn't register with our errant driver or the newsies, BUT - The GPS worked just fine for the positional tolerances it has. There might be a GIS or a software minor issue (maybe). The big issue remains USER ERROR. (the general public is clueless about GPS or GIS....they just push da' buttons and it magically works)
I just recieved a navigation unit for Christmas and learned real quickly not to trust them. It was trying to take me all kinds of crazy routes through Milwaukee, and went completely haywire when we were passing through Kansas City on I70. Once we cleared the big cities, it operated just fine. If I depended solely on that GPS unit to get me through Milwaukee, who knows where I may have ended up.
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