I've some info on the what's left of the C&EI today. The Danville depot and the Bismark Station have been moved to Kennekuck park and restored as museums [haven't been by them yet] and the station in Westville [Danville/Tuscola track] is still in place also a museum along with a caboose.
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/41134/ppuser/4309
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/41128/ppuser/4309
The tracks from there to Danville are gone, but from the Cairo line to Tuscola [UP] are still use, I think.
The tracks from Danville to Evansville are still in use and they're wanting to rebuild a coal spur at Cayuga into the power plant, to supply a new coal gasification plant.
If I remember right they use, used Union station in Terre Haute. The building is gone, but some of the stonework was saved and can be found here.
http://www.haleytower.org/
The Alice yard in Terre Haute is still in use. I think it's where CSX changes crews on UP coal drags with INRR.
The yard in Villa Grove is still in use, though not as big as I remember from the 60's. The roundhouse and a few other building are still standing [or they were 3 months ago] and most could be restored.
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/51336/ppuser/4309
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/51346/ppuser/4309
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/51332/ppuser/4309
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/51329/ppuser/4309
That's about all I know of the C&EI, I sure have enjoyed all the info posted about them here, thanks guys
inch
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
rrboomer wrote:C&EI was part of the Van Sweringen empire?
Yes, I wasn't aware of that either so I looked it up. Besides the C&O, Erie, Nickel Plate, W&LE and PM, they also had the Missouri Pacific. During 1928 they added the C&EI, no doubt to connect MP with the rest of their lines.
Ed,
Just as an aside, the CE&I is very important to both you and I for very similar reasons. Its merger robed us of our IC lines through our towns. When Mopac got the CE&I, it substantially diminished the IC's Chicago-St. Louis traffic--probably contributing to the abandonment of the Springfield - St. Louis line. When the L&N got the other branc of the CE&I, it dried up IC's Evansville bridge traffic, leading the the loss of your line.
Gabe
SSW9389 wrote: When the Thebes bridge was completed by SIMBCO the Cotton Belt was controlled by the Gould Family. Jay Gould's son Edwin was President of the Cotton Belt from 1898-1912 and then Chairman from 1912-1925. After he retired control of the Cotton Belt went to Rock Island for a few short months, then to KCS in October 1925. The KCS sold out to a company called New York Investors, Inc in 1929 and the Espee bought a controlling stock interest in 1930. See Extra 2200 South Issue #79 has a complete C&EI roster of diesels, motor cars and steam locomotives. KCSfan wrote: When the bridge at Thebes was completed in 1905 the Cotton Belt expressed an interest in acquiring the C&EI but couldn't convince the management of its parent SP to go along with that idea. The threat of this prompted the Frisco to gain control of the C&EI which lasted until the Frisco declared bankruptcy in 1913. The C&EI itself went into bankruptcy in 1922 which forced it to sell its line between Lacrosse and Brazil, IN which was the former Chicago & Indiana Coal RR. The Coal Road line ran almost parrallel to the C&EI and connected with it at Goodland near Momence. When divested by the C&EI it became the Chicago Attica & Southern. The CA&S was never profitable but lingered on until it was totally abandoned in 1946. IIRC it was the largest single railroad abandonment in the US up to that time. In the early 1950's I remember seeing the remains of a fairly large round house along the C&EI around Goodland which I believe had been the CA&S engine terminal and shops.I'll add another bit of C&EI trivia. A couple of years ago when looking at an online roster of EJ&E steamers I noticed that several of their Mikados were shown as being "equipped with Miller Train Control for use on the C&EI". I'd never heard of this so I did some searching and found out the Miller system was a form of Automatic Train Stop patented in 1929 that employed lineside inductors and receivers mounted on the engines. The pioneer installation of Miller Train Control was on the C&EI main between Chicago and Danville.Mark
When the Thebes bridge was completed by SIMBCO the Cotton Belt was controlled by the Gould Family. Jay Gould's son Edwin was President of the Cotton Belt from 1898-1912 and then Chairman from 1912-1925. After he retired control of the Cotton Belt went to Rock Island for a few short months, then to KCS in October 1925. The KCS sold out to a company called New York Investors, Inc in 1929 and the Espee bought a controlling stock interest in 1930.
See Extra 2200 South Issue #79 has a complete C&EI roster of diesels, motor cars and steam locomotives.
KCSfan wrote: When the bridge at Thebes was completed in 1905 the Cotton Belt expressed an interest in acquiring the C&EI but couldn't convince the management of its parent SP to go along with that idea. The threat of this prompted the Frisco to gain control of the C&EI which lasted until the Frisco declared bankruptcy in 1913. The C&EI itself went into bankruptcy in 1922 which forced it to sell its line between Lacrosse and Brazil, IN which was the former Chicago & Indiana Coal RR. The Coal Road line ran almost parrallel to the C&EI and connected with it at Goodland near Momence. When divested by the C&EI it became the Chicago Attica & Southern. The CA&S was never profitable but lingered on until it was totally abandoned in 1946. IIRC it was the largest single railroad abandonment in the US up to that time. In the early 1950's I remember seeing the remains of a fairly large round house along the C&EI around Goodland which I believe had been the CA&S engine terminal and shops.I'll add another bit of C&EI trivia. A couple of years ago when looking at an online roster of EJ&E steamers I noticed that several of their Mikados were shown as being "equipped with Miller Train Control for use on the C&EI". I'd never heard of this so I did some searching and found out the Miller system was a form of Automatic Train Stop patented in 1929 that employed lineside inductors and receivers mounted on the engines. The pioneer installation of Miller Train Control was on the C&EI main between Chicago and Danville.Mark
When the bridge at Thebes was completed in 1905 the Cotton Belt expressed an interest in acquiring the C&EI but couldn't convince the management of its parent SP to go along with that idea. The threat of this prompted the Frisco to gain control of the C&EI which lasted until the Frisco declared bankruptcy in 1913. The C&EI itself went into bankruptcy in 1922 which forced it to sell its line between Lacrosse and Brazil, IN which was the former Chicago & Indiana Coal RR. The Coal Road line ran almost parrallel to the C&EI and connected with it at Goodland near Momence. When divested by the C&EI it became the Chicago Attica & Southern. The CA&S was never profitable but lingered on until it was totally abandoned in 1946. IIRC it was the largest single railroad abandonment in the US up to that time. In the early 1950's I remember seeing the remains of a fairly large round house along the C&EI around Goodland which I believe had been the CA&S engine terminal and shops.
I'll add another bit of C&EI trivia. A couple of years ago when looking at an online roster of EJ&E steamers I noticed that several of their Mikados were shown as being "equipped with Miller Train Control for use on the C&EI". I'd never heard of this so I did some searching and found out the Miller system was a form of Automatic Train Stop patented in 1929 that employed lineside inductors and receivers mounted on the engines. The pioneer installation of Miller Train Control was on the C&EI main between Chicago and Danville.
Mark
I thought the SP gained control of the Cotton Belt much earlier and should have researched its ownership before opening my mouth (not the first time I've made that mistake). Didn't the Goulds also control the MP and T&P at that time so perhaps it was because of these interests that the acquisition of the C&EI by the SSW was nixed?
SSW9389 wrote: When the Thebes bridge was completed by SIMBCO the Cotton Belt was controlled by the Gould Family. Jay Gould's son Edwin was President of the Cotton Belt from 1898-1912 and then Chairman from 1912-1925. After he retired control of the Cotton Belt went to Rock Island for a few short months, then to KCS in October 1925. The KCS sold out to a company called New York Investors, Inc in 1929 and the Espee bought a controlling stock interest in 1930. See Extra 2200 South Issue #79 has a complete C&EI roster of diesels, motor cars and steam locomotives. I thought the SP gained control of the Cotton Belt much earlier and should have researched its ownership before opening my mouth (not the first time I've made that mistake). Didn't the Goulds also control the MP and T&P at that time so perhaps it was because of these interests that the acquisition of the C&EI by the SSW was nixed?Mark
I thought the SP gained control of the Cotton Belt much earlier and should have researched its ownership before opening my mouth (not the first time I've made that mistake). Didn't the Goulds also control the MP and T&P at that time so perhaps it was because of these interests that the acquisition of the C&EI by the SSW was nixed?Mark
Because the Van Sweringen Brothers formed the Alleghany Corporation. That corporation controlled both roads.
CShaveRR wrote: C&EI was the Pere Marquette's largest interchange partner in the Chicago area (circa 1945). Anyone know why?
C&EI was the Pere Marquette's largest interchange partner in the Chicago area (circa 1945). Anyone know why?
I new and worked with several ex-C&EI people on the Illinois Central. Additionally, my uncle Bob Eaton, now deceased, worked for the C&EI in the Freight Traffic Department from the late 1940's up to about to the time of the MOP merger. Needless to say I knew of the Railroad, where it ran and something of its freight market, but not very much of the details and its history.
The C&EI Historical Society has a brief history of the railroad at http://www.ceihs.org/historians_frameset.html
In the mid 80's, Old Ben Mine 21 near Benton, IL was shipping some coal on the ex-C&EI, then MOP of branch that ran from near Mt Vernon down the west side of Rend Lake. Mine 21 was mined out around 1990 and it appears from the Google images that the branch has been abandoned.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
From 1902-1946, the Southern Railway and the L&N were the majority owners of the Monon (the Official Name at the time was the Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville Railway). However, the Monon went bankrupt in 1933, and stayed in receivership/bankruptcy until 1946. At this point, the equity (stock) that the Southern and L&N owned was wiped out when the Monon reorganized. The Monon was independent again from 1946 until 1971 (when the L&N purchased them).
Curiously, my limited knowledge of the C&EI comes from my readings on the Monon, but an interesting line in any case.
Brian
MP173 wrote: Looking back, the SP's lack of desire to purchase the CEI has to be one of the biggest long term acts of omission in the modern day history of railroading.ed
Looking back, the SP's lack of desire to purchase the CEI has to be one of the biggest long term acts of omission in the modern day history of railroading.
ed
Hi Ed,
nanaimo73 wrote:The Chicago & Eastern Illinois had 3 GP 30s which were 239, 240 and 241. These became Missouri Pacific 590 to 592 and then Louisville and Nashville 1058 to 1060. I'd love to see a picture of them on the MP, as they were the only GP30 locomotives on the big railroad. C&EI 240 Picture
Believe it or not one of those GP30's still exists on CSX...as a Road Slug!
RRFoose wrote: CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: L&N's acquisition of the Evansville leg of C&EI was opposed by Monon and L&N eliminated this opposition by agreeing to absorb Monon.NS has trackage rights over IC between Chicago and Gibson City to compensate for the abandonment of the ex-WAB line between Manhattan and Gibson City.L&N got their half of C&EI in 1969 and merged the Monon in 1971, so that makes sense. Didn't the Southern have a large stake in the Monon too? They didn't have access to Chicago, so I'm confused as to why they would let L&N take the Monon too.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: L&N's acquisition of the Evansville leg of C&EI was opposed by Monon and L&N eliminated this opposition by agreeing to absorb Monon.NS has trackage rights over IC between Chicago and Gibson City to compensate for the abandonment of the ex-WAB line between Manhattan and Gibson City.
L&N's acquisition of the Evansville leg of C&EI was opposed by Monon and L&N eliminated this opposition by agreeing to absorb Monon.
NS has trackage rights over IC between Chicago and Gibson City to compensate for the abandonment of the ex-WAB line between Manhattan and Gibson City.
L&N got their half of C&EI in 1969 and merged the Monon in 1971, so that makes sense. Didn't the Southern have a large stake in the Monon too? They didn't have access to Chicago, so I'm confused as to why they would let L&N take the Monon too.
Thanks to both of you for the info. I stand corrected on the current NS routing and the timing of the L&N's acquisitions of the C&EI's Evansville line and the Monon.
MP173 wrote: Looking back, the SP's lack of desire to purchase the CEI has to be one of the biggest long term acts of omission in the modern day history of railroading.Sure, they would have offended some of their interchange partners, but they would have bypassed St. Louis, could have interchanged the B&O traffic on the line, also the PRR at Altamont and would have been in Chicago giving ATSF some competition for Chicago = California freight.ed
Sure, they would have offended some of their interchange partners, but they would have bypassed St. Louis, could have interchanged the B&O traffic on the line, also the PRR at Altamont and would have been in Chicago giving ATSF some competition for Chicago = California freight.
Good point, Ed.
Would MP have been forced into a merger ? With Southern, or Santa Fe ?
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:L&N's acquisition of the Evansville leg of C&EI was opposed by Monon and L&N eliminated this opposition by agreeing to absorb Monon.NS has trackage rights over IC between Chicago and Gibson City to compensate for the abandonment of the ex-WAB line between Manhattan and Gibson City.
As a modeler, I always thought it would be fun to model a modern-day C&EI - jointly owned by UP and CSX. You can still have plenty of run-throughs with it's parents power, but you could also make up your own roster and paint scheme. But I'm not sure how logical it would have been for MP and L&N to keep the C&EI as a whole railroad, with each owning half, and use it as a terminating company. It shouldn't be to hard to have run-throughs and crew change points setup to smooth transitions. Maybe with such large parents, the C&EI could have sought out a merger partner such as GM&O giving them direct access to the port of Mobile. Granted, most of the rest of the line wouldn't be of much use... But that's a modeler's dream! Maybe if the SSW had gotten ahold of C&EI, it too would have remained independant - but I'm sure it'd be painted up in the company colors of SP.
CShaveRR wrote: Chris, that was the C&IM; they're still doing their stuff for the Illinois & Midland.
Chris, that was the C&IM; they're still doing their stuff for the Illinois & Midland.
Cool. I always liked the very industrial look of them. Plus, they really did remind me of the RS-1. One of these days I'd like to get some shots of them.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
MP173 wrote: Mark:Thanks for the info. I will check my old OG's later today, but I think the CEI ran a RDC type car on the Southern Illinois route in the 50's.I believe that NS routes it's Chicago - Decatur traffic on the CN (down to Gilman) then to Farmer City and then ex Wabash route to Decatur. MoPac changed the railroading landscape considerably with that purchase of CEI. It really set things in motion as far as future mergers were concerned. ed
Mark:Thanks for the info. I will check my old OG's later today, but I think the CEI ran a RDC type car on the Southern Illinois route in the 50's.
I believe that NS routes it's Chicago - Decatur traffic on the CN (down to Gilman) then to Farmer City and then ex Wabash route to Decatur.
MoPac changed the railroading landscape considerably with that purchase of CEI. It really set things in motion as far as future mergers were concerned.
You're right about the RDC. The Meadowlark and Shawnee both ran as conventional trains with diner/lounges at least until June 1954 (the date of my last pertinent OG). I don't know exactly when but sometime later the Meadowlark became a two car RDC trainset which was reduced to just one RDC in its last years. I think the Shawnee also became a RDC operation about the same time.
Now that you mention it you may very well be right about the NS having trackage rights and running it's ex-Wabash line freight over the CN/IC and not the C&EI from Danville north as I said. I'm still a bit unsure on this and hopefully someone with positive current information will post a reply.
Didn't the L&N first gain direct entrance to Chicago by it acquisition of the Monon? I seem to recall this resulted in some loss of freight traffic on the C&EI's main as the L&N re-routed quite a bit of it through Louisville and on to Chicago instead of the Evansville routing.
SSW Ed, thanks for the info on the ownership of the bridge at Thebes.
C&EI delivered its unit coal trains directly to South Shore at Burnham Yard, using the CWI between Yard Center and Burnham. The trains would tie up Burnham Ave for a very long time as they crept into Burnham Yard. At first, South Shore would have to deliver the coal to NIPSCO in two trains from Burnham since the electrical system could not supply enough current to a Joe to move 100 cars of coal at once, even with a diesel pusher (cow-calf sets leased from parent C&O).
DPM once opined in "Second Section" that an appropriate nickname for C&EI might have been "The Ordinary Railroad".
MP173 wrote: So, the CEI went from being a coal carrier to a general freight carrier. I dont know if the coal fields in Southern Illinois played out, or what, but MoPac came along about the right time.
I'm not sure of the whole story of Southern Ill coal, but I seem to recall that it has a very high sulphur content and isn't very "green." I don't know if that had an impact as early as 1971, but I know a lot of Illinois coal mines were shutting down by the end of the 70's because of the competition from the low sulphur western coal.
Mark & All: I'll fill you all in on the bridge linking Thebes, Illinois with Illmo, Missouri. The bridge was owned by the Southern Illinois & Missouri Bridge Company or SIMBCO. The company was owned 60% by Missouri Pacific and 40% by St. Louis Southwestern. Data from Moody's.
Ed
KCSfan wrote: The C&EI main was always considered to be Chi - Evansville. Except for a few short branches, the rest of the road split off the main at Woodland Jct. (82 miles south of Chi) and ran southwest to Findlay (mp 185) where it split again with one line going the StL and the other to Cypress (mp 345). From Cypress one line continued to Jopp (mp 363) on the Ohio River and the other ran another 49 miles to Chaffee, MO crossing the Mississippi at Thebes. I believe the bridge at Thebes was owned by the C&EI though it could have been jointly owned with the Cotton Belt and/or MoPac both of which also used it.Mark
The C&EI main was always considered to be Chi - Evansville. Except for a few short branches, the rest of the road split off the main at Woodland Jct. (82 miles south of Chi) and ran southwest to Findlay (mp 185) where it split again with one line going the StL and the other to Cypress (mp 345). From Cypress one line continued to Jopp (mp 363) on the Ohio River and the other ran another 49 miles to Chaffee, MO crossing the Mississippi at Thebes. I believe the bridge at Thebes was owned by the C&EI though it could have been jointly owned with the Cotton Belt and/or MoPac both of which also used it.
The Mopac purchase seems to have really impacted the IC. Not only did they lose the St Louis interchange, but the branch line from Evansville to Mattoon lost the L&N interchange. I recall seeing fairly large trains on that line (up to 100 cars and three GP7/9). The size of the trains started to get smaller and smaller so that by end of the 70's a 30 car train was typical.
The C&EI bowed out of the Chi - StL passenger business when they discontinued the Zipper in the 1953-4 time period due to too much competetion from the GM&O, IC and Wabash. Sometime post WW2 the C&EI put two spiffy little streamliners comlete with diner-lounges in service. These were the Meadowlark running between Chi and Thebes/Joppa and the Whiporwill (later renamed the Shawnee IIRC) between Chi and Evansville. In the mid 50's, in addition to these two, the C&EI ran four other daily trains plus the every third day Dixie Flagler between Chi and Evansville. The Dixie Flagler and Dixie Flyer to Florida, the Georgian to Atlanta and the Hummingbird to New Orleans all operated south of Evansville on the L&N.
When the MoPac bought parts of the C&EI they got access from StL into Chicago and the ICG and N&W (Wabash) both lost the MoPac freight business they formerly had between the two cities. I don't know but assume the MoPac also acquired the C&EI's lines between Findlay and Chaffee and Joppa. The MP already reached well into Illinois as far as Salem with a roughly parallel line of its Missouri-Illinois subsidiary. I would think the MoPac would have picked the best of the two routes to upgrade and sell off or abandon the other. I just don't know and hopefully someone have factual info to add as I am only guessing. I do know the MoPac invested heavily in its ex-C&EI line(s) to make it into a modern high speed freight route with heavy CWR, CTC and long passing tracks. I know little about current traffic on the CSX (ex-L&N) portion of former C&EI between Evansville and Danville. I do believe traffic density north of Danville to Chicago picks up since the NS (ex-Wabash) now routes all its Chi - StL freight over that line.
As a young boy I got invited up into the cab of a C&EI Pacific at the head of one of the Dixie trains while it made its brief station stop at Chicago Heights. Later in my early teens I toured the C&EI shops at Danville on a Railroad Club of Chicago fan trip. At Danville I was fascinated by an old but proudly maintained 4-4-2 that was awaiting its daily run at the head of the passenger local to Villa Grove. It was my first, and one of only a few, sight I ever had of an Atlantic in actual service. Thanks to memories like these I've always taken a special likening to the old C&EI.
I think I can help somewhat with a picture of C&EI operations on the north end in late1964.
For trains I am sure of, they still had 3 Chgo-Evansville passenger trains. For freight operations they had two piggyback trains, one for Evansville (2nd 95) and one for St Louis (ran as 2nd 93 Yard Center-Woodland Jct). There was one night YC-Evansville general freight train (No 57) and one night YC-St Louis general freight No. 61.
What I'm not sure of is if they had another set of general freight trains for E'vill and St L. leave Yard Center in the the day time as I never worked first hours at Thornton Jct, only second and mainly third hours.
About the time the last of the GP35's were delivered there was a once a week 100 car unit coal train from southern Illinois to the CSS&SB. During the summer and fall there was usually about five 150-170 car coal trains for the BRC.
There was also a nightly Ford Run (using a yard crew) from Yard Center to the Ford Plant at Chgo Hts on the CHTT. It took cars out to Chgo Hts and then ran thru YC on the way back and delivered the Ford cars.
Took a look at an old Moody's Manual and from 1968 thru 1971 the tonnage on the CEI really plunged. It went from 18,122,562 tons in 1968 to 11,182,613 in 1971. The biggest drop was in coal from 6.5million tons to 2.9 million tons in 1971.
So, the CEI went from being a coal carrier to a general freight carrier. I dont know if the coal fields in Southern Illinois played out, or what, but MoPac came along about the right time.
This is only a wild guess, Carl, but I would say it was the interchange of coal coming up from Southern Illinois.
Growing up in the south suburbs of Chicago, the C&EI was one of the close by roads. My grandmother frequently traveld from Evansville on the Hummingbird to visit us. We would pick her up at Crete. Wish I had a shot of that train from then.
Many years later, I worked two summers during college on the construction of Yard Center as a section laborer. (68 and 69) I remember seeing the remnant of the Hummingbird rolling by with a single E unit with what looked like a hand painted L&N on the side and two coahes. Sad.
It was during these summers I learned to drive spikes, which served me well in 72 when I started on the UP section crew at Lawrence, Ks. The assistant foreman on our gang of misfit college students at Yard Center was Herman Taylor. He is the one who taught me to spike.
Fast forward to about 1988. I am now Assistant Regional Engineer for the Soo Line at Bensenville shortly after we had bought the Milwaukee Road. One of our trains coming up from Indiana had derailed near Dolton Jct and I had to go down and make an assessment of the damage that we would be billed for on the clean up. Guess who the first person I run into there was? Herman Taylor, now foreman at Yard Center. Small world.
CopCarSS wrote:Was C&EI the railroad that ran the "two of a kind" road switchers that looked like an EMD attempt at an RS1 (RS1325's maybe?)? Or was that the C&IM?
There is a C&EI Historical Society. By the time I became a less provincial railfan, C&EI was already under MoPac influence.
Here's a tidbit to fuel the fire, though. C&EI was the Pere Marquette's largest interchange partner in the Chicago area (circa 1945). Anyone know why?
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
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