The only other places where I saw the CWI star were on company trucks, usually driven by signal maintainers. If my memory is right, the bridge over 159th Street (Route 6) also has the C&EI initials, cast in concrete.
ndbprr wrote:There is a bridge over I-57 right before I-57 merges with I-94 into CHicago that still has CE&I on it. Since UP took over there is quite a lot of traffic in and out of the yard near Dolton. UP 3985 was here a couple of years ago running on that line and there was no way the fans couldkeep up with it so it is well maintained. The line is double tracked to around Momence for sure. I don't think the line is as busy as it was since UP bought C&NW but it still has fair amount of traffic.
Actually, that bridge has a logo for the C&WI (Chicago & Western Indiana, who once owned the tracks down as far as Dolton Junction in C&EI's direction). I don't think I've ever seen that star-shaped logo used anywhere else.
The C&EI's initials are still visible on the bridge that carries the line over Interstate 294, just east of the large stone quarry.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
You can still see a bit of the CA&S right of way on the south side of Momence. The last time I was there a spur off the UP followed the right of way into a small factory. There is a pole line that continues alongside the old ROW and goes off into the distance from there.
John Timm
SSW9389 wrote: When the Thebes bridge was completed by SIMBCO the Cotton Belt was controlled by the Gould Family. Jay Gould's son Edwin was President of the Cotton Belt from 1898-1912 and then Chairman from 1912-1925. After he retired control of the Cotton Belt went to Rock Island for a few short months, then to KCS in October 1925. The KCS sold out to a company called New York Investors, Inc in 1929 and the Espee bought a controlling stock interest in 1930. See Extra 2200 South Issue #79 has a complete C&EI roster of diesels, motor cars and steam locomotives. KCSfan wrote: When the bridge at Thebes was completed in 1905 the Cotton Belt expressed an interest in acquiring the C&EI but couldn't convince the management of its parent SP to go along with that idea. The threat of this prompted the Frisco to gain control of the C&EI which lasted until the Frisco declared bankruptcy in 1913. The C&EI itself went into bankruptcy in 1922 which forced it to sell its line between Lacrosse and Brazil, IN which was the former Chicago & Indiana Coal RR. The Coal Road line ran almost parrallel to the C&EI and connected with it at Goodland near Momence. When divested by the C&EI it became the Chicago Attica & Southern. The CA&S was never profitable but lingered on until it was totally abandoned in 1946. IIRC it was the largest single railroad abandonment in the US up to that time. In the early 1950's I remember seeing the remains of a fairly large round house along the C&EI around Goodland which I believe had been the CA&S engine terminal and shops.I'll add another bit of C&EI trivia. A couple of years ago when looking at an online roster of EJ&E steamers I noticed that several of their Mikados were shown as being "equipped with Miller Train Control for use on the C&EI". I'd never heard of this so I did some searching and found out the Miller system was a form of Automatic Train Stop patented in 1929 that employed lineside inductors and receivers mounted on the engines. The pioneer installation of Miller Train Control was on the C&EI main between Chicago and Danville.Mark
When the Thebes bridge was completed by SIMBCO the Cotton Belt was controlled by the Gould Family. Jay Gould's son Edwin was President of the Cotton Belt from 1898-1912 and then Chairman from 1912-1925. After he retired control of the Cotton Belt went to Rock Island for a few short months, then to KCS in October 1925. The KCS sold out to a company called New York Investors, Inc in 1929 and the Espee bought a controlling stock interest in 1930.
See Extra 2200 South Issue #79 has a complete C&EI roster of diesels, motor cars and steam locomotives.
KCSfan wrote: When the bridge at Thebes was completed in 1905 the Cotton Belt expressed an interest in acquiring the C&EI but couldn't convince the management of its parent SP to go along with that idea. The threat of this prompted the Frisco to gain control of the C&EI which lasted until the Frisco declared bankruptcy in 1913. The C&EI itself went into bankruptcy in 1922 which forced it to sell its line between Lacrosse and Brazil, IN which was the former Chicago & Indiana Coal RR. The Coal Road line ran almost parrallel to the C&EI and connected with it at Goodland near Momence. When divested by the C&EI it became the Chicago Attica & Southern. The CA&S was never profitable but lingered on until it was totally abandoned in 1946. IIRC it was the largest single railroad abandonment in the US up to that time. In the early 1950's I remember seeing the remains of a fairly large round house along the C&EI around Goodland which I believe had been the CA&S engine terminal and shops.I'll add another bit of C&EI trivia. A couple of years ago when looking at an online roster of EJ&E steamers I noticed that several of their Mikados were shown as being "equipped with Miller Train Control for use on the C&EI". I'd never heard of this so I did some searching and found out the Miller system was a form of Automatic Train Stop patented in 1929 that employed lineside inductors and receivers mounted on the engines. The pioneer installation of Miller Train Control was on the C&EI main between Chicago and Danville.Mark
When the bridge at Thebes was completed in 1905 the Cotton Belt expressed an interest in acquiring the C&EI but couldn't convince the management of its parent SP to go along with that idea. The threat of this prompted the Frisco to gain control of the C&EI which lasted until the Frisco declared bankruptcy in 1913. The C&EI itself went into bankruptcy in 1922 which forced it to sell its line between Lacrosse and Brazil, IN which was the former Chicago & Indiana Coal RR. The Coal Road line ran almost parrallel to the C&EI and connected with it at Goodland near Momence. When divested by the C&EI it became the Chicago Attica & Southern. The CA&S was never profitable but lingered on until it was totally abandoned in 1946. IIRC it was the largest single railroad abandonment in the US up to that time. In the early 1950's I remember seeing the remains of a fairly large round house along the C&EI around Goodland which I believe had been the CA&S engine terminal and shops.
I'll add another bit of C&EI trivia. A couple of years ago when looking at an online roster of EJ&E steamers I noticed that several of their Mikados were shown as being "equipped with Miller Train Control for use on the C&EI". I'd never heard of this so I did some searching and found out the Miller system was a form of Automatic Train Stop patented in 1929 that employed lineside inductors and receivers mounted on the engines. The pioneer installation of Miller Train Control was on the C&EI main between Chicago and Danville.
Mark
The RDC car that replaced the Meadowlark Chi-Cyprus was also a 'one up' deal. The single RDC-1 was used, sometimes hauling a non-powered standard coach into the early 1960s, then on a truncated run to Danville called 'the Danville Flyer" It was sold to CN #6109 and then to Cuba, where it still runs today.
Ex-1602, nee-EMD demo 499
Gabe,
Thanks for the kind words on my photos! The wayfreight was a tri-weekly affair symboled the D39D. It primarily hauled clay from the pits by Sorento down to Edwardsville to Richards Brick- which then also loaded boxcars outbound. Once in a while there was outbound grain loads and inbound fertilizer loads out of Donnellson (there's a shot in my files of the coal train meeting the wayfreight at Donnellson while the wayfrieght is picking up some fertilizer hoppers). Cowden was made the end of track after the line was cut back from Neoga in 1988. Cowden was where the B&O Springfield line once crossed- and there was a large elevator there that used to ship by rail. By 1994 though the last customer on line was at Donnellson. I have a shot at Cowden of the end of track complete with the abandoned interlocking signal next to it.
The ICG Farmersville turn ran down as far as Thomasville (just north of Farmersville)- the grain elevator there got inbound loads of fertilizer and ammonia- and occasionallly loaded outbound grain. I don't know if there was any other work on line at Divernon or Cimic- I think it was just Thomasville. The Crown III mine train was a seperate run that ran to Decatur- I have shots of that train too from 1991 with an IC GP38-2 and GP30- I want to say it ran tri-weekly because it was only a 50 car train set of hoppers.
I know what you mean about being born too late- but I was also lucky enough to have a railfan/railroader father who got me started taking my own pictures when I was 7- I'm 28 now and it's odd to think how much things have changed since I started taking pictures, but I'm glad I got it all on film!
nordique72 wrote: Actually despite the zig-zag nature of the new route it is easier to traverse than the old routing via Edwardsville. We always just called it "The Coal Train" when I was growing up- the CNW would run it down into Edwardsville to the point in town where the NKP began paralleling the CNW- there were two crossover interchanges built between the two, and upon entering from the north the train would crossover to the NKP on the north track. After pulling through onto the NKP main, the power would cut off and exit back to the CNW via the south connector track. After running the power back around to the north track and back onto the NKP- the train would then get it's track warrants from the NS dispatcher and crawl out of town- fouling up traffic on Troy Road (usually right in the middle of the morning rush hour! Just like Gabe recalled earlier.) When the train returned from Coffeen it did the same dance- enter E'ville on the NKP and pull down to the south connector (in mid afternoon- right around the time I was on my paper route past the tracks), the crew would run the power around the train and call to get their warrants from the CNW dispatcher. At first the train would just pull out via the north connector and leave town- but after a bout of complaints due to the fact that the train crawling out of town at 15 mph that really hogtied traffic- the train would then back it's entire consist through the south connector and partially down the hill at Leclaire siding before throttling up and heading north again (the sound of this specatcle was incredible on summer nights). I would call that more of a zig-zag!In 1996 the UP completed the Decamp connector track and the NS built a storage siding there to park the train (on the old route they just left it on the NKP main in Edwardsville over the weekend sans power- or White siding if the wayfreight needed to run) which got the trains out of Edwardsville. If you're interested in seeing shots of the coal train I have some posted in my old photos set on my Flickr album- since the trains arrival was so predictable it was easy to photograph it (unlike the CNW's BUMAA/MAPRA and the NS wayfreight...)http://flickr.com/photos/nordique72/sets/72157601381208071/
Actually despite the zig-zag nature of the new route it is easier to traverse than the old routing via Edwardsville. We always just called it "The Coal Train" when I was growing up- the CNW would run it down into Edwardsville to the point in town where the NKP began paralleling the CNW- there were two crossover interchanges built between the two, and upon entering from the north the train would crossover to the NKP on the north track. After pulling through onto the NKP main, the power would cut off and exit back to the CNW via the south connector track. After running the power back around to the north track and back onto the NKP- the train would then get it's track warrants from the NS dispatcher and crawl out of town- fouling up traffic on Troy Road (usually right in the middle of the morning rush hour! Just like Gabe recalled earlier.) When the train returned from Coffeen it did the same dance- enter E'ville on the NKP and pull down to the south connector (in mid afternoon- right around the time I was on my paper route past the tracks), the crew would run the power around the train and call to get their warrants from the CNW dispatcher. At first the train would just pull out via the north connector and leave town- but after a bout of complaints due to the fact that the train crawling out of town at 15 mph that really hogtied traffic- the train would then back it's entire consist through the south connector and partially down the hill at Leclaire siding before throttling up and heading north again (the sound of this specatcle was incredible on summer nights). I would call that more of a zig-zag!
In 1996 the UP completed the Decamp connector track and the NS built a storage siding there to park the train (on the old route they just left it on the NKP main in Edwardsville over the weekend sans power- or White siding if the wayfreight needed to run) which got the trains out of Edwardsville. If you're interested in seeing shots of the coal train I have some posted in my old photos set on my Flickr album- since the trains arrival was so predictable it was easy to photograph it (unlike the CNW's BUMAA/MAPRA and the NS wayfreight...)
http://flickr.com/photos/nordique72/sets/72157601381208071/
Nordique,
Nice pictures--I really liked the CIM local.
Two things caught my attention. In your post you mentioned NS wayfreight on the old Nickle Platte Line? I didn't know such an animal existed. What was the freight? I know that NS hauled some clay around Sorento, but I always thought that was it. Do you know if NS served any other customers on that line?
One day I was sick of my college classes and decided to take a mental health day by scouting the NS line as far as it would take me--it ended at Cowden. That trip had to be approximately 1994. It didn't look like the line saw activitiy outside of the Sorento clay and "The Coal Train."
Also, you have a 1989 picture of an "ICG Farmersville wayfreight." I assume this was the Farmersville Crown III mine? Or did the ICG still serve the elevators in Farmersville back then. Sadly, I was born about 5 years too late. So much of what I wanted to see was gone about 5 years before I really had the ability to go see it . . .
Gabe
Gabe:That is quite a routing...do they call the coal train the zig zag?
ed
Gabe:No downstate trips planned at this time....my reference to Muncie is more of the "next time" trip, as my son is just about done with the semester and I certainly wouldnt want to interrupt his academic or social life!
I will be heading down to Bloomington, Noblesville, Mt. Vernon, and Lafayette after February 1st for AAU hoops. Also, might be down over the holidays to Indy. Will let you know. Hope everything is well.
MP173 wrote: What is the routing now for the Coffeen coal trains from Monterray? Do they still go to Edwardsville and then up the old NKP line?ed
What is the routing now for the Coffeen coal trains from Monterray? Do they still go to Edwardsville and then up the old NKP line?
Ed,
(1) I gather from another thread that you are headed downstate. I wish you would let me know to meet if at all possible. But, of course, I understand if you are too busy.
(2) To answer your question, No. Sadly, and seemingly incredibly, there are no Train tracks in Edwardsville proper any longer. They abandoned botht he Nickle Platte and the CNW line. The Route now is, NS goes over the old IT for about a mile and a half, onto the old CNW line South to Stauton, then they head back north on the NS Wabash main to Litchfield, then they head South on the old CB&Q BNSF to Sorento, then head east on the old Nickle Platte on the NS. In coming up with this new "Superior Route," they abandoned the CNW from Stautoon to Granite City and the Nickle Plate from Sorento to Granite City. Sad days . . .
Well, it looks like the sale of the Monterrey Mine fell through this week and Exxon will be closing the mine. That is disappointing since that sale had been in the works for so long and seemed like a sure thing at the time to keep it open. Perhaps since Exxon Mobil is getting out of the coal business they will find a new buyer who will take the chance at reopening it sometime down the road- much like what happened up at Crown III by Farmersville on the old IC.
In regards to C&EI content before I get too off topic- I remember as kid there was a highway overpass near Findlay Jct, IL that had the C&EI herald and name spelled out on it. Anyone know if it is still there (or legible?)
nordique72 wrote: To clarify- Monterrey Mine is not directly on the ex-GM&O. The mine is actually located on a segment of the former Illinois Terminal main line which connects to the ex-CNW South Pekin Sub at Monterrey Jct.- which is just north of Gillespie. Along the mine spur- the track passes the former Loveless IT substation- which the last time I had passed was still standing. At Monterrey Jct. the CNW line to the south is now owned by the NS (as stated) and to the north is in up to Girard under UP ownership where it eventually connects to the ex-GM&O main line via a new connector track put in in 2000. Aside from the Coffeen coal trains loaded by the NS (and predecessor CNW), the CNW used to load coal trains for Cedar Rapids and the IT once loaded unit trains for Machens, MO in conjunction with the BN.Gabe- to answer your rumor- the power plant at Coffeen has been getting PRB coal in addition to the Monterrey coal for years. The UP has run PRB unit trains to the NS at St. Louis bound for Coffeen- loaded out of Antelope Mine in WY. Symbol for these trains is CATCF and is loaded in CAEG hoppers (Coffeen and Western marks!). Monterrey Mine coal loaded out by the UP now occasionally goes to Cedar Falls on the IANR- symbol for those trains is CMMCI- it uses UP system cars. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Coffeen is shutting down- since that's the generating station and not the mine. If you mean Monterrey- it's been an off an on rumor for the last 20 years that the mine would shut down due to the sulfur content of the coal mined there- yet it still mines away. Unlike alot of the other mines in Southern Illinois that couldn't compete with the low-sulfur PRB coal- Monterrey seems to have somehow stayed afloat. Seeing the Monterrey coal train arrive and do it's runaround dance in Edwardsville was a daily ritual for me- and even though the routing has changed I still try to keep up with the operations of the trains on the NS/BNSF route now.
To clarify- Monterrey Mine is not directly on the ex-GM&O. The mine is actually located on a segment of the former Illinois Terminal main line which connects to the ex-CNW South Pekin Sub at Monterrey Jct.- which is just north of Gillespie. Along the mine spur- the track passes the former Loveless IT substation- which the last time I had passed was still standing.
At Monterrey Jct. the CNW line to the south is now owned by the NS (as stated) and to the north is in up to Girard under UP ownership where it eventually connects to the ex-GM&O main line via a new connector track put in in 2000. Aside from the Coffeen coal trains loaded by the NS (and predecessor CNW), the CNW used to load coal trains for Cedar Rapids and the IT once loaded unit trains for Machens, MO in conjunction with the BN.
Gabe- to answer your rumor- the power plant at Coffeen has been getting PRB coal in addition to the Monterrey coal for years. The UP has run PRB unit trains to the NS at St. Louis bound for Coffeen- loaded out of Antelope Mine in WY. Symbol for these trains is CATCF and is loaded in CAEG hoppers (Coffeen and Western marks!). Monterrey Mine coal loaded out by the UP now occasionally goes to Cedar Falls on the IANR- symbol for those trains is CMMCI- it uses UP system cars. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Coffeen is shutting down- since that's the generating station and not the mine. If you mean Monterrey- it's been an off an on rumor for the last 20 years that the mine would shut down due to the sulfur content of the coal mined there- yet it still mines away. Unlike alot of the other mines in Southern Illinois that couldn't compete with the low-sulfur PRB coal- Monterrey seems to have somehow stayed afloat.
Seeing the Monterrey coal train arrive and do it's runaround dance in Edwardsville was a daily ritual for me- and even though the routing has changed I still try to keep up with the operations of the trains on the NS/BNSF route now.
I did mean Monterrey, as you are correct about Coffeen running strong. However, I just heard from my father, who still lives in the area, Monterrey is being sold and if they can't sell it by January 1, it is being shut down.
I went to college in Edwardsville, I have been delayed by that train stopping on the tracks more than once. Gabe
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
It had a direct route from Chicago to the L&N in Evansville. Probably the quickest route to the Ohio River.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Jeaton:I would suggest a mid 50's OG rather than 60's. Considerably more passenger schedules and the merger movement hadnt started yet.
Ebay always has some on sale.
I grew up accros the crick from the 2.4 million mine. Although the tonage is impressive, the length of the haul is not--it is hauled to a power plant in Coffeen about 40 miles away as the crow flies . . .
Rumor is, Coffeen will not be getting PRB coal, and they will be shutting that line and mine down.
Ed
Thanks. After so many years, I had forgotten about the M-I. I really need to acquire a mid 60's railway guide so I can refresh my memory.
Jay
Jeaton:Thanks for the info. I used Google Earth and found what appears to be a mine loadout (loop track) a few miles southwest of Coulterville. That line is the old Missouri - Illinois line which ran from Salem (later Centralia) to the Mississippi River. It was owned by the Missouri Pacific.
At 2.5 million tons, that would equate to about 150 loaded unit trains per year, a pretty good amount of coal but, as you state, that was 2003.
The latest I could find on Illinois Coal production and rail shipments is for 2005. For that year, the UP handled only about 670,000 tons of Illinois coal from 5 mines. Three of the mines are at ex-C&EI points in Jackson and Perry Counties and accounted for about 109 thousand tons. Black Beauty Coal's Gateway mine is on the UP 5 miles south of Coulterville, IL. I'll need you Illinois guys to identify the predecessor owner of that line. As late as 2003 that mine had produced 2.5 million tons, but there was a change of ownership in 2004 with the big drop in production.
Monterey Mine #1 is in Macoupin County off the ex-GM&O Chicago-St Louis Line and is also served by the NS. In 2004 NS got 2.4 million tons out of that mine, while the UP only got 76 thousand. Makes sense as a westward haul on the UP is sort of taking coal to Newcastle.
In 2004, shipments of Illinois Coal by rail totaled 17.16 million tons. CN had 46% of the total, NS-24% and CSX 19%, the balance hauled by BNSF and UP.
Needless to say the UP and BNSF are probably hauling big tonnages of PRB coal the major river terminals at Metropolis, IL on the Ohio (BN) and Grand Rivers, KY on the Tennessee (P&L).
MP173 wrote: There appear to be two routes from the original CEI line over to the MoPac river line, one diverging at Mt. Vernon and one at Benton. Which line see the regular movement of the freights? or do both lines handle the freights?
There appear to be two routes from the original CEI line over to the MoPac river line, one diverging at Mt. Vernon and one at Benton. Which line see the regular movement of the freights? or do both lines handle the freights?
Ed, UP's CTC Chicago Sub between Dolton and Gorham includes the ex C&EI to Benton and then the ex MP to Gorham, on the River line (Chester Sub), and handles the tonnage. The Mount Vernon-Chester line, the Pickneyville Sub, is shown as dark territory in UP's 1986 ETT. It is about 20 miles longer than going through Benton.
Ok, now for current day operations on the south end...
Second, how does the PRB coal move in this area? At one time there was UP coal trains moving on the IC line from St. Louis southeast. I assume these went to Padacah, or somewhere close, for transloading onto barges. Is that still the routing? or do they utilize their own lines?
Is there any coal originating from any of the Southern Illinois mines on the UP? Doesnt the BNSF still originate a little coal down there on their line to Southern Illinois, or is that mainly PRB coal for transloading heading south?
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