How many named streamlined trains operated across the US/Canadian border ? Name them? Name the RRs and also those that had through streamlined cars for points beyond the originating trains Canadian and US destinations?
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan How many named streamlined trains operated across the US/Canadian border ? Name them? Name the RRs and also those that had through streamlined cars for points beyond the originating trains Canadian and US destinations? Al - in - Stockton
I don't remember the names, but the NYC/TH&B/CP operated lightweight sleepers between Toronto and New York City/Boston/(perhaps)Pittsburgh. These came into Buffalo on various trains and were consolidated for movement to/from Toronto.
The Wolverine moved across Canada on the NYC between Buffalo and Detroit
I think the Winnipeg Limited (GN/CN) had lightweight equipment, running between St. Paul and Winnipeg.
That's all I can remember.
Johnny
There once was a pass. train pre-VIA that left from the Maritimes (Halifax, I think, but am not sure), went more or less east-west across the northern (roughly) quarter of the state of Maine, and then re-entered Canada at Quebec province, on its way to Montreal. The train was CP's, and Canada/US customs were handled at the border or on the train, but in such a way that the sleeping car passengers, at least, didn't have to be awakened. (Train went thru this part of Maine -- largely uninhabited) right in the middle of the night. Don't recall its name but wouldn't that count, too? I think it used typical 1950s Budd streamlined equipment, but not sure of that either....not without hauling out my old Off. Guide Rwys. anyway.
- a.s.
Both Al - in Chicago and Johnny are off to a pretty good start.
Al the train you mentioned was the Atlantic Limited and it operated with Budd equipment overnight between Montreal and St. John where one boarded the CPR ferry across the Bay of Fundy and then boarded the CPR subsidiary Dominion Atlantic RDC to complete the trip to Halifax.
There is still a few more you have missed.
I'm pretty sure GTW contributed nothing to this list--the way I remember the International and the Maple Leaf, their equipment could hardly be considered "streamlined".
Again, no concrete help, but a couple of suggestions:
--I vaguely remember seeing some CP RDCs in the station in Windsor once; they were either about to go through, or had just come through, the Detroit-Windsor tunnel owned by the Michigan Central. Would RDCs count?
--Anything through Sault Sainte Marie?
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route.
Mark
KCSfan I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route. Mark
The GTW did operate in conjunction with parent a couple of streamliners.
passengerfan KCSfan I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route. Mark Mark the later Laurentian of the D&H was streamlined but the North Shore Limited would be stretching it a bit. The GTW did operate in conjunction with parent a couple of streamliners. Al - in - Stockton
How far back pre-Amtrak (or pre-VIA) are we going?
al-in-chgo passengerfan KCSfan I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route. Mark Mark the later Laurentian of the D&H was streamlined but the North Shore Limited would be stretching it a bit. The GTW did operate in conjunction with parent a couple of streamliners. Al - in - Stockton How far back pre-Amtrak (or pre-VIA) are we going?
CShaveRR I'm pretty sure GTW contributed nothing to this list--the way I remember the International and the Maple Leaf, their equipment could hardly be considered "streamlined". Again, no concrete help, but a couple of suggestions: --I vaguely remember seeing some CP RDCs in the station in Windsor once; they were either about to go through, or had just come through, the Detroit-Windsor tunnel owned by the Michigan Central. Would RDCs count? --Anything through Sault Sainte Marie?
The GN Winnipeg Limited carried a summer lightweight sleeper for the CN from St. Paul to Winnipeg where it transferred to the Super Continental for the trip to Vancouver. The NP operated an RDC between Fargo and Winnipeg. The DW&P operated an RDC between Duluth and just across the Canadian border. The NH, PRR and CN operated the Montrealer and Washingtonian. That pretty well covers it with the others previously mentioned.
Degessty seems to have mentioned the most so I guess it his question.
Thanks, Al - in - Stockton. A question (no credit) how many of you readers/contributors bought the reprints of an 1893, a 1917, a 1930, and 1941 Guide? You can find quite interesting stuff in these.
The real question: How did the N&W participate in a through New York City TO Jacksonville, Fla. sleeper (roads and junction points), and what were the terminii of this sleeper on its way back to New York City (two legs)? If you can name the two name trains in each direction, you are doing wonderfully well. This is in the June 1917 Guide.
Al - in - Stockton, please keep in mind that the Montrealer and Washingtonian were always Central Vermont trains. My grandfather was the fireman in the 1920s and the engineer in the '30s and '40s. He drove the train from White River Junction all the way to Montreal. No crew change at the border. Yes CN owned CV, but in 1924 when the Montrealer got started, 1/3 of the stock was still held by the founder's family in St. Albans. CV went into receivership after the flood of 1927. At auction in 1929 CN bought CV all up for good. B&M was the Montrealer's crucial link to Springfield. They pulled out in 1966 and that was that for the Montrealer. Amtrak restored the train in 1972. Now it's a day train called the Vermonter.
http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1737822191&id=57
http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1087565537&id=57
Mike
wanswheel Al - in - Stockton, please keep in mind that the Montrealer and Washingtonian were always Central Vermont trains. My grandfather was the fireman in the 1920s and the engineer in the '30s and '40s. He drove the train from White River Junction all the way to Montreal. No crew change at the border. Yes CN owned CV, but in 1924 when the Montrealer got started, 1/3 of the stock was still held by the founder's family in St. Albans. CV went into receivership after the flood of 1927. At auction in 1929 CN bought CV all up for good. B&M was the Montrealer's crucial link to Springfield. They pulled out in 1966 and that was that for the Montrealer. Amtrak restored the train in 1972. Now it's a day train called the Vermonter. http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1737822191&id=57 http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1087565537&id=57 Mike
Of course you are correct Sorry I forgot about the CV. Remember the station well in St. Albans. Seems I also forgot the Alouette that ran between Boston and Montreal. It could only be called streamlined when it ran with the RDC's
Deggesty Thanks, Al - in - Stockton. A question (no credit) how many of you readers/contributors bought the reprints of an 1893, a 1917, a 1930, and 1941 Guide? You can find quite interesting stuff in these. The real question: How did the N&W participate in a through New York City TO Jacksonville, Fla. sleeper (roads and junction points), and what were the terminii of this sleeper on its way back to New York City (two legs)? If you can name the two name trains in each direction, you are doing wonderfully well. This is in the June 1917 Guide. Johnny
A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties.
Deggesty A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties. Johnny
Deggesty Deggesty A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties. Johnny Another help--the ACL took the car into Jacksonville, using a branch line and then the main line (the ACL Express on the main line). How did the car get to the N&W, and what road connected the N&W with the ACL? At that time, it took two roads (the B&O was not one of them) to get the car to the N&W, but two years later, one of the two was taken in by the the other. Johnny
Johnny,
The following route doesn't fit all of your clues but it's the best I've been able to come up with so far. Maybe some portions of it are right.
PRR - NY to Hagerstown
N&W - Hagerstown to Roanoke to Winston-Salem
WSSB - Winston-Salem to Wadesboro
ACL - Wadesboro to Florence to Jacksonville
KCSfan Deggesty Deggesty A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties. Johnny Another help--the ACL took the car into Jacksonville, using a branch line and then the main line (the ACL Express on the main line). How did the car get to the N&W, and what road connected the N&W with the ACL? At that time, it took two roads (the B&O was not one of them) to get the car to the N&W, but two years later, one of the two was taken in by the the other. Johnny Johnny, The following route doesn't fit all of your clues but it's the best I've been able to come up with so far. Maybe some portions of it are right. PRR - NY to Hagerstown N&W - Hagerstown to Roanoke to Winston-Salem WSSB - Winston-Salem to Wadesboro ACL - Wadesboro to Florence to Jacksonville Mark
Mark, you have the route! Here are the details found in the June 1917 Guide:
NYC to Harrisburg--PRR #7, the Mercantile Express; Harrisburg to Hagerstown--Cumberland Valley #1 (the Cumberland Valley (8/1837 to 6/1919) was absorbed by the PRR); Hagerstown to Roanoke--N&W #1; Roanoke to Winston-Salem--N&W #21; Winston-Salem to Wadesboro, N. C.--Winston-Salem Southbound #53 (this is the oddest, to me, partner in the Pullman line); ACL to Florence--ACL #63; Florence to Jacksonville--ACL #89, the ACL Express.
Northbound, the car arrived in Roanoke too late to make connection with a train to move it on towards NYC, so the line was broken there. Jacksonville to Florence--#80, the ACL Express; Florence to Wadesboro--#62; Wadesboro to Winston-Salem--#52; Winston-Salem to Roanoke--#22. The next day: Roanoke to Hagerstown--#36; Hagerstown to Harrisburg--#14; Harrisburg to NYC--#7, the Atlantic Express. In its representation in this issue of the Guide, the ACL indicates that the car ran through northbound as well as southbound.
The Cumberland Valley surprised me when I first saw it, but it was but one of many roads that were absorbed by other roads during the years of building and consolidation.
There were two other sleeper lines handled through Hagerstown--New York-Winston-Salem and Philadelphia-Gary, West Virginia.
Mark, it's your question.
N&W train #1 at Roanoke
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS3440.JPG
Tennesseean
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns743.jpeg
The next question will be easy and concerns the last scheduled mixed train to run in the US. What was its route, what railroad ran it, and when (year only) was it discontinued?
KCSfan The next question will be easy and concerns the last scheduled mixed train to run in the US. What was its route, what railroad ran it, and when (year only) was it discontinued? Mark
It was the Georgia Road, Altanta to Augusta or some portion thereof. The year? 1974?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd It was the Georgia Road, Altanta to Augusta or some portion thereof. The year? 1974?
We have a winner! Right on all counts so you're up to bat with the next question.
KCSfan oltmannd It was the Georgia Road, Altanta to Augusta or some portion thereof. The year? 1974? We have a winner! Right on all counts so you're up to bat with the next question. Mark
NJT operates trains from Phila 30th St to Atlantic City. There are 14 round trips per day, at present. Which part of the route in NJ was never part of PRSL? Who was the owner during the PRSL years?
You can use google maps for this one. Pay attention to the Delaware River.
oltmannd You can use google maps for this one. Pay attention to the Delaware River.
I think all the northeasterners have bailed on this. This is not too hard a question. Here's the setup. The Delaware River River separates Philly from NU. So the early RRs from Camden into NJ used ferries. The early RR were purchased by bigger ones outside the state of NJ, but they kept tthem separate on the books, even as these separate RRs swallowed other smaller, adjacent lines. One of the parents decided ferries were too expensive, especially for frieght, and too inconvenient for passengers coming from Phila, so they built a bridge nearby in the late 1890s.
All us NorthEasterners are too busy out buying milk, eggs, bread, & t-paper to stock up for the 2" - 8" bizzard snowfall and ice storm tomorrow !
That said, here's my "guess" (because all my good references are in the office at work):
PRR, from DelAir Bridge to Winslow Jct.
By the way, PRSL = Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines, a 1935 joint venture between those 2 railroads - PRR & RDG - to eliminate duplication on this route.
oltmannd NJT operates trains from Phila 30th St to Atlantic City. There are 14 round trips per day, at present. Which part of the route in NJ was never part of PRSL? Who was the owner during the PRSL years?
Judging from the STV atlas, I would say that the PRR-only owned line extended only to West Haddonfield, since PRSL is shown as having owned the track (now abandoned) from Camden to West Haddonfield. The atlas shows West Jersey and Seashore (WJS) as being the original owner from Camden to West Haddonfield and on south, through Winslow Jct. The atlas does not indicate any intermediate ownership between original and current (or the last owner before abandonment). As I understand it, the WJS and the Atlantic City Railroad (AC) were combined to form PRSL.
Is it okay to use the STV atlas rather than Google?
On a 1956 map there's 2 nearly parallel lines from the Delaware River to Winslow, both called PRS, which I guess means Penn Reading Seashore. It seems in 1933 the ICC ordered the merger of the 2 roads to Atlantic City, with PRR owning 2/3 and Reading 1/3. Or something like that. I dunno.
Delair Bridge
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=744694
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa3700/pa3755/photos/362183pv.jpg
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