GIVE IT UP THE SANTA FE ,CB&Q, BN ARE GONE FOREVER AND THEY WILL NEVER BE BACK ! GET USE TO IT THE BNSF IS HERE TO STAY IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. TO ME THE BNSF IS THE ONLY RAILROAD THAT HAD THE GUTS TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND CHANGE THE FUTURE IN RAILROADS.
MopacBarrettTunnel wrote: Hmmmmmmm........... "Big, Nasty, Snotty Fu er?"TEASING, friends!!!!!! But I just couldn't resist. For my $.02, I was quite pleased with the original "Heritage I" scheme, and thought that the BNSF should have kept it as the standard. While I was happy when the pre-merger Santa Fe brougt back the red Warbonnet for it's Super Fleet intermodal push, by the time of the merger I was prepared to let it go again; my logic being that starting a newly merged company with a "fresh page" was less traumatic than watching a cherished image undergo a strange metamorphosis - which is what soon happened to the BNSF, IMHO.My first BNSF sighting was also at Lindenwood yard; while I can't recall the precise road number, I do know that it was a former BN GP-38. Better still, I could also see that it was an ex-Frisco unit, as it still had it's nose-mounted Gyralite. It was fresh out of the paint booth, and looked just wonderful in the Omaha Orange and Pullman Green, with gold stripes. However, I did notice something a bit unusual - the BNSF on the long hood seemed to be in the old Santa Fe "Cooper Black" font, rather than something else, like Railroad Roman, or whatever. And all though it was displaced a bit by the still-present Gyralite, there was no mistaking where the familiar cross-within-a-circle logo on the short hood came from.At that time, I had mixed feelings for a while, but I quickly accepted the GN colors representing BN's part of the contribution, and the styling, lettering, and logo representing "Uncle John" as a workable idea, and forgot my misgivings. They were revived pretty quickly when the road adopted both the "cigar-band" nose-logo design, revised yellow "speed-striping / lettering" AND the silvered undercarriage after barely one year of the original scheme's debut!!! I also started hearing a lot of "BN-vs.-Santa Fe" mutterings in Trains, regarding who was trying to "dominate" the new road. Now, I'm old enough to remember the "Red Team / Green Team" feud that contributed to Penn Central's collapse, and the creeping mis-use of Santa Fe-evocative graphic ideas seemed to be history about to repeat itself, or so I feared at the time. Eventually, my fears proved to be misguided - the BNSF was and still is quite healthy, and is sharing in the current boom the entire industry is also enjoying. Although I don't think their current "swoosh" image is a great improvement over "Heritage II," I also know that we're talking about aesthetics here; what REALLY matters to the corporation is the performance on the bottom line, for the shareholders. But, from a public-relations viewpoint, might I at least suggest finding a shade of Omaha Orange that's DURABLE, as a modest first step?
Hmmmmmmm........... "Big, Nasty, Snotty Fu er?"TEASING, friends!!!!!! But I just couldn't resist. For my $.02, I was quite pleased with the original "Heritage I" scheme, and thought that the BNSF should have kept it as the standard. While I was happy when the pre-merger Santa Fe brougt back the red Warbonnet for it's Super Fleet intermodal push, by the time of the merger I was prepared to let it go again; my logic being that starting a newly merged company with a "fresh page" was less traumatic than watching a cherished image undergo a strange metamorphosis - which is what soon happened to the BNSF, IMHO.
My first BNSF sighting was also at Lindenwood yard; while I can't recall the precise road number, I do know that it was a former BN GP-38. Better still, I could also see that it was an ex-Frisco unit, as it still had it's nose-mounted Gyralite. It was fresh out of the paint booth, and looked just wonderful in the Omaha Orange and Pullman Green, with gold stripes. However, I did notice something a bit unusual - the BNSF on the long hood seemed to be in the old Santa Fe "Cooper Black" font, rather than something else, like Railroad Roman, or whatever. And all though it was displaced a bit by the still-present Gyralite, there was no mistaking where the familiar cross-within-a-circle logo on the short hood came from.At that time, I had mixed feelings for a while, but I quickly accepted the GN colors representing BN's part of the contribution, and the styling, lettering, and logo representing "Uncle John" as a workable idea, and forgot my misgivings. They were revived pretty quickly when the road adopted both the "cigar-band" nose-logo design, revised yellow "speed-striping / lettering" AND the silvered undercarriage after barely one year of the original scheme's debut!!! I also started hearing a lot of "BN-vs.-Santa Fe" mutterings in Trains, regarding who was trying to "dominate" the new road. Now, I'm old enough to remember the "Red Team / Green Team" feud that contributed to Penn Central's collapse, and the creeping mis-use of Santa Fe-evocative graphic ideas seemed to be history about to repeat itself, or so I feared at the time. Eventually, my fears proved to be misguided - the BNSF was and still is quite healthy, and is sharing in the current boom the entire industry is also enjoying. Although I don't think their current "swoosh" image is a great improvement over "Heritage II," I also know that we're talking about aesthetics here; what REALLY matters to the corporation is the performance on the bottom line, for the shareholders. But, from a public-relations viewpoint, might I at least suggest finding a shade of Omaha Orange that's DURABLE, as a modest first step?
I agree about the need for durable paint. I caught a few sun-bleached dash-9s out in California last summer. Maybe the paint suppliers should set up a test facility out there. If it can stand being outside in death valley without fading then we have a winner.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Mr_Ash wrote: I never liked Amtrak, I grew watching and riding the BN run commuter trains with my dad and a few times a year going to IRM riding the Nebraska Zephyr and watching the C&NW trains plus my dad and grandparrents would allways tell me about all the colorful trains they rode on in the 50-60's and we would go to train museums all over the country so I could see them and now I sit here and look at how things are now... its just blah... IDK i guess im just a passenger rail buff I allways viewed Amtrak as the new generic rail service which it is i guess... the red white and blue stripes reminded me of American airlines... Ive only rode 1 Amtrak train in my life and that was Chicago to Milwaukee tagging along while my dad whet to some business meeting. One word to discribe it... "Meh"Anyway... as I was driving home from work tonight I got stopped at the crossing in my town by a Metra and I got to thinking.... What if BNSF would pay for say 12 new engines styled after the EMD E5 and have pairs painted as Santa Fe (warbonnet) - Burlington Route - Great Northern - Northern Pacific - Burlington Northern and lastly 2 painted in BNSF colors and then donate them to Chicago to be run on the BNSF Aurora - Chicago Metra daily commuter trains.Thats what I think they should do.
I never liked Amtrak, I grew watching and riding the BN run commuter trains with my dad and a few times a year going to IRM riding the Nebraska Zephyr and watching the C&NW trains plus my dad and grandparrents would allways tell me about all the colorful trains they rode on in the 50-60's and we would go to train museums all over the country so I could see them and now I sit here and look at how things are now... its just blah... IDK i guess im just a passenger rail buff
I allways viewed Amtrak as the new generic rail service which it is i guess... the red white and blue stripes reminded me of American airlines... Ive only rode 1 Amtrak train in my life and that was Chicago to Milwaukee tagging along while my dad whet to some business meeting. One word to discribe it... "Meh"
Anyway... as I was driving home from work tonight I got stopped at the crossing in my town by a Metra and I got to thinking.... What if BNSF would pay for say 12 new engines styled after the EMD E5 and have pairs painted as Santa Fe (warbonnet) - Burlington Route - Great Northern - Northern Pacific - Burlington Northern and lastly 2 painted in BNSF colors and then donate them to Chicago to be run on the BNSF Aurora - Chicago Metra daily commuter trains.
Thats what I think they should do.
I do notice that UP seems to have adequate numbers of their classic (now "heavy-side") passenger coaches, yellow and grey with red stripes, for special trips. But that line's livery and lineage runs straight thru, and I think they use fairly modern motive power. (The big exception to that being ex-CNW territory, of course.) Also the KCS has revamped the old "Southern Belle" with pretty much the same purpose in line. They even revamped or overhauled an old EMD unit -- I don't know if it's an "E" or an "F" unit, but it is definitely postwar-era. When NS still had a "J" class steam engine or two, they would do things like fall color excursions. I don't think they have stopped doing this, but I don't think the J's are running all the time. And IIRC CSX does the occasional excursion although it may be billed as an "inspector's trip" or some such malarkey. Another PR-wise way to kiss institutional butt is to run specials to important and crowded public events, like college football matches, but then again it's not for hoi polloi like us ordinary railfans. It's a pity, really. Who would enjoy the experience more?
And BNSF: yes, it does seem like they are running away from their heritage. It's almost a case of "embarrasment of riches," with so many important predecessor lines with so many vivid colors (I for one am particularly fond of the old GN "Big Sky" blue) and idiosyncratic imagery (NP's "yin-yang", for example). Seems as well there are very few of us who don't like the warbonnet. BTW have you noticed some short lines come very close to copying the warbonnet logo? - al
Mr_Ash wrote: SchemerBob wrote: Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care. If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also im sure alot more people would know what the acronym stands for... If they even continued using it
SchemerBob wrote: Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care. If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.
Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care.
As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care.
If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.
And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also im sure alot more people would know what the acronym stands for... If they even continued using it
Really? All Amtrak does is haul passengers and most people can't spell it. (Amtrack)
An "expensive model collector"
Mr_Ash wrote: SchemerBob wrote: Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care. If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also alot more people would know what the acronym stands for
And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also alot more people would know what the acronym stands for
And if they were still hauling passengers, they'd probably be down alot of money. By the way, what's wrong with the "swoosh"?
I havent payed any attention to BN(SF) since Metra took over running the commuter trains on the Aurora-Chicago line, as far as freight goes I see more Canadian National or Santa Fe engines than BN or BNSF engines, only time I ever see BN engines anymore is switching tank car's at my work in Aurora once a week
SchemerBob wrote:What about CSX? I bet more people know what BNSF means than CSX. In fact, I don't think CSX's full meaning was ever spelled out on any of their locomotives or anything. Only us railfans probably would know it meant Chessie, Seaboard and the multiplication symbol.I think more people know what BNSF means than you think, so I think BNSF should stay the way it is. I like the warbonnet, but I don't think there's any use in bringing back a paint scheme of a former railroad and making it standard. There's no way the BNSF could "be" the Santa Fe again, because they aren't. I am glad though that there's as many warbonnet locomotives surviving that there are.Remember, though, didn't BNSF paint some of its earliest new SD75I/M's and Dash 9's with the warbonnet paint scheme? Apparently they decided that it wouldn't work. I think that probably a big part of it was the BN. Heritage I was based on the Burlington Northern predicessors, and the Heritage II was based on the Santa Fe scheme. Now that it's been more than a decade since BNSF was formed, they now have an image all to their own...enter "Heritage III" and the swoosh.
What about CSX? I bet more people know what BNSF means than CSX. In fact, I don't think CSX's full meaning was ever spelled out on any of their locomotives or anything. Only us railfans probably would know it meant Chessie, Seaboard and the multiplication symbol.
I think more people know what BNSF means than you think, so I think BNSF should stay the way it is. I like the warbonnet, but I don't think there's any use in bringing back a paint scheme of a former railroad and making it standard. There's no way the BNSF could "be" the Santa Fe again, because they aren't. I am glad though that there's as many warbonnet locomotives surviving that there are.
Remember, though, didn't BNSF paint some of its earliest new SD75I/M's and Dash 9's with the warbonnet paint scheme? Apparently they decided that it wouldn't work. I think that probably a big part of it was the BN. Heritage I was based on the Burlington Northern predicessors, and the Heritage II was based on the Santa Fe scheme. Now that it's been more than a decade since BNSF was formed, they now have an image all to their own...enter "Heritage III" and the swoosh.
Hell, I didn't know that until just now! And my city is slap on a northern branch of CSX! Then again, the last time I saw a train up here was a piggyback/intermodal when I was 8. Best lunch at McDonalds I can remember!
A very good point. I see the BNSF a lot as they run behind my house, and I also pass Lindenwood yard almost every day. I don't particularly like the orange, but I've come to compare it to the last days of the Milwaukee Road.
Also, there is an awful lot of variety. I never thought I'd become nostalgic for the old Cascade green, but I still see it frequently and enjoy the sight. If only they'd left a few Frisco units in their original color.
TimChgo9 wrote: eolafan wrote: It does not really matter to me at all what the colors on the rolling stock are, as long as the railroad prospers, keeps running lots of trains I can view for a very long time.
eolafan wrote: It does not really matter to me at all what the colors on the rolling stock are, as long as the railroad prospers, keeps running lots of trains I can view for a very long time.
It does not really matter to me at all what the colors on the rolling stock are, as long as the railroad prospers, keeps running lots of trains I can view for a very long time.
For the 3rd time:
KCSfan wrote: IMHO a really appropriate name for the BNSF would be The Great Western Railway since it primarly serves the mid, north and Pacific west (though admitedly not quite appropriate for the former Frisco line to Birmingham).Mark
IMHO a really appropriate name for the BNSF would be The Great Western Railway since it primarly serves the mid, north and Pacific west (though admitedly not quite appropriate for the former Frisco line to Birmingham).
Mark
I wouldn't mind Chicago Great Western - it would pretty much describe the railroad - but unfortunately that name is owned by Union Pacific now.
It's a tough call, Santa Fe had a great history and the warbonnet was maybe the best diesel paint scheme ever (especially on E and F units as intended) but only served part of the current BNSF territory. The idea of having the "Santa Fe" hauling taconite pellets in Superior WI or running thru Glacier Park seems a little odd to me (although old ATSF engines do that now).
If you want to bring back the Santa Fe Warbonnet, buy O Scale and G Scale Models.
That is why there are Scale Model Locomotives, to bring back what is gone.
BNSF is something different now. It is simply The Big Western Railway.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
TimChgo9 wrote: I, (or should I say, my son) did an informal, non scientific survey of as many adults as he could talk to at his grade school (He's a very energetic first grader) and he asked them what "BNSF" stood for.... He says that all of the "big people" knew it meant "Burlington Northern and Santa Fe" Now, as far as how many he spoke with, he said he asked the lunch ladies, the custodian and the principal. I also cannot attest to the accuracy of his survey either.......
I, (or should I say, my son) did an informal, non scientific survey of as many adults as he could talk to at his grade school (He's a very energetic first grader) and he asked them what "BNSF" stood for.... He says that all of the "big people" knew it meant "Burlington Northern and Santa Fe" Now, as far as how many he spoke with, he said he asked the lunch ladies, the custodian and the principal. I also cannot attest to the accuracy of his survey either.......
I wonder how many people in Philadelphia know what BNSF stands for? Of the general population I mean? - a. s.
"Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Santa Fe..."
(Edit. Yes,yes, I know the slogan was for CHEVROLET, but you get my drift...bring it back.)
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Union Pacific moreso today than ever before is an approptiate name since it is a union of so many other roads and certainly reaches the Pacific at many locations, likewise is Kansas City Southern since it runs from that city to so many southern points. Canadian Pacific is appropriately named but Canadian National is not, particularly since its acquisition of the ICG. Norfolk Southern is not at all descriptive of a road that encompasses so much of the former Conrail. As far as CSX is concerned I give up on that name as many others of you have.
With regards to BNSF Railway I can go along with the name but miss the old familiar Santa Fe. In reality the Santa Fe name was just a derivative of the road's full name, Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe which was never remotely appropriate for a railroad that reached from Chicago to California and the southwest. The city of Santa Fe was reached only by a minor branch line and neither Atchison or Topeka were points of major importance. The same could be said for the cities of Burlington and Quincy in the old CB&Q name. IMHO a really appropriate name for the BNSF would be The Great Western Railway since it primarly serves the mid, north and Pacific west (though admitedly not quite appropriate for the former Frisco line to Birmingham).
I've come to like the name, BNSF, and certainly don't expect to see it changed any time in the foreseeable future.
Hi,
Boy, can I relate to these postings...........
I have been a Santa Fe and Illinois Central RR nut since the '50s.
I was saddened when the IC changed its name, logos, and signage to Illinois Central Gulf. So you can imagine how devastated I was when Canadian National - a foreign corporation -bought them out and killed the IC and/or ICG naming!!!
Still, I had my "Santa Fe", or so I thought. There were various rumors of merger but I never dreamed that they and the BN would get together. What a shock!!!!
But, to get to the point of the question, why couldn't they have kept the separate logos and paint schemes and signage on their equipment? That would have been cheaper by far, folks would still retain familiarity with their railroad, and "all would be right with the world".
Now for those of you that want an example of the above, let me cite my former employer, Mobil Oil Corporation. In 2000, Exxon "merged" (actually bought us out) with Mobil, creating Exxon Mobil Corporation. The buildings and refinery, etc. signage was changed accordingly, but the retail stations retained their origins (i.e. Exxon or Mobil), as did the products (i.e. Mobil 1, etc).
Of course the oil bizzness is not railroading, and of course the BNSF is surely not going to change anything for non revenue producing fans, so I conclude that we just have to be happy with what we got!!!
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
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