eolafan wrote: It does not really matter to me at all what the colors on the rolling stock are, as long as the railroad prospers, keeps running lots of trains I can view for a very long time.
It does not really matter to me at all what the colors on the rolling stock are, as long as the railroad prospers, keeps running lots of trains I can view for a very long time.
TimChgo9 wrote: eolafan wrote: It does not really matter to me at all what the colors on the rolling stock are, as long as the railroad prospers, keeps running lots of trains I can view for a very long time.
For the 3rd time:
A very good point. I see the BNSF a lot as they run behind my house, and I also pass Lindenwood yard almost every day. I don't particularly like the orange, but I've come to compare it to the last days of the Milwaukee Road.
Also, there is an awful lot of variety. I never thought I'd become nostalgic for the old Cascade green, but I still see it frequently and enjoy the sight. If only they'd left a few Frisco units in their original color.
SchemerBob wrote:What about CSX? I bet more people know what BNSF means than CSX. In fact, I don't think CSX's full meaning was ever spelled out on any of their locomotives or anything. Only us railfans probably would know it meant Chessie, Seaboard and the multiplication symbol.I think more people know what BNSF means than you think, so I think BNSF should stay the way it is. I like the warbonnet, but I don't think there's any use in bringing back a paint scheme of a former railroad and making it standard. There's no way the BNSF could "be" the Santa Fe again, because they aren't. I am glad though that there's as many warbonnet locomotives surviving that there are.Remember, though, didn't BNSF paint some of its earliest new SD75I/M's and Dash 9's with the warbonnet paint scheme? Apparently they decided that it wouldn't work. I think that probably a big part of it was the BN. Heritage I was based on the Burlington Northern predicessors, and the Heritage II was based on the Santa Fe scheme. Now that it's been more than a decade since BNSF was formed, they now have an image all to their own...enter "Heritage III" and the swoosh.
What about CSX? I bet more people know what BNSF means than CSX. In fact, I don't think CSX's full meaning was ever spelled out on any of their locomotives or anything. Only us railfans probably would know it meant Chessie, Seaboard and the multiplication symbol.
I think more people know what BNSF means than you think, so I think BNSF should stay the way it is. I like the warbonnet, but I don't think there's any use in bringing back a paint scheme of a former railroad and making it standard. There's no way the BNSF could "be" the Santa Fe again, because they aren't. I am glad though that there's as many warbonnet locomotives surviving that there are.
Remember, though, didn't BNSF paint some of its earliest new SD75I/M's and Dash 9's with the warbonnet paint scheme? Apparently they decided that it wouldn't work. I think that probably a big part of it was the BN. Heritage I was based on the Burlington Northern predicessors, and the Heritage II was based on the Santa Fe scheme. Now that it's been more than a decade since BNSF was formed, they now have an image all to their own...enter "Heritage III" and the swoosh.
Hell, I didn't know that until just now! And my city is slap on a northern branch of CSX! Then again, the last time I saw a train up here was a piggyback/intermodal when I was 8. Best lunch at McDonalds I can remember!
I havent payed any attention to BN(SF) since Metra took over running the commuter trains on the Aurora-Chicago line, as far as freight goes I see more Canadian National or Santa Fe engines than BN or BNSF engines, only time I ever see BN engines anymore is switching tank car's at my work in Aurora once a week
As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care.
Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care.
If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.
SchemerBob wrote: Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care. If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.
And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also im sure alot more people would know what the acronym stands for... If they even continued using it
Mr_Ash wrote: SchemerBob wrote: Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care. If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also alot more people would know what the acronym stands for
And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also alot more people would know what the acronym stands for
And if they were still hauling passengers, they'd probably be down alot of money. By the way, what's wrong with the "swoosh"?
Mr_Ash wrote: SchemerBob wrote: Mr_Ash wrote: As far as what i would like to see from BNSF... Since they dont haul passengers anymore they could go out of business for all I care. If it made money, I'm sure they'd still be hauling passengers.And if they were still hauling passengers im sure they would still have some prettied up engines with snazzy paint jobs and a catchy name, also im sure alot more people would know what the acronym stands for... If they even continued using it
Really? All Amtrak does is haul passengers and most people can't spell it. (Amtrack)
An "expensive model collector"
I never liked Amtrak, I grew watching and riding the BN run commuter trains with my dad and a few times a year going to IRM riding the Nebraska Zephyr and watching the C&NW trains plus my dad and grandparrents would allways tell me about all the colorful trains they rode on in the 50-60's and we would go to train museums all over the country so I could see them and now I sit here and look at how things are now... its just blah... IDK i guess im just a passenger rail buff
I allways viewed Amtrak as the new generic rail service which it is i guess... the red white and blue stripes reminded me of American airlines... Ive only rode 1 Amtrak train in my life and that was Chicago to Milwaukee tagging along while my dad whet to some business meeting. One word to discribe it... "Meh"
Anyway... as I was driving home from work tonight I got stopped at the crossing in my town by a Metra and I got to thinking.... What if BNSF would pay for say 12 new engines styled after the EMD E5 and have pairs painted as Santa Fe (warbonnet) - Burlington Route - Great Northern - Northern Pacific - Burlington Northern and lastly 2 painted in BNSF colors and then donate them to Chicago to be run on the BNSF Aurora - Chicago Metra daily commuter trains.
Thats what I think they should do.
Mr_Ash wrote: I never liked Amtrak, I grew watching and riding the BN run commuter trains with my dad and a few times a year going to IRM riding the Nebraska Zephyr and watching the C&NW trains plus my dad and grandparrents would allways tell me about all the colorful trains they rode on in the 50-60's and we would go to train museums all over the country so I could see them and now I sit here and look at how things are now... its just blah... IDK i guess im just a passenger rail buff I allways viewed Amtrak as the new generic rail service which it is i guess... the red white and blue stripes reminded me of American airlines... Ive only rode 1 Amtrak train in my life and that was Chicago to Milwaukee tagging along while my dad whet to some business meeting. One word to discribe it... "Meh"Anyway... as I was driving home from work tonight I got stopped at the crossing in my town by a Metra and I got to thinking.... What if BNSF would pay for say 12 new engines styled after the EMD E5 and have pairs painted as Santa Fe (warbonnet) - Burlington Route - Great Northern - Northern Pacific - Burlington Northern and lastly 2 painted in BNSF colors and then donate them to Chicago to be run on the BNSF Aurora - Chicago Metra daily commuter trains.Thats what I think they should do.
I do notice that UP seems to have adequate numbers of their classic (now "heavy-side") passenger coaches, yellow and grey with red stripes, for special trips. But that line's livery and lineage runs straight thru, and I think they use fairly modern motive power. (The big exception to that being ex-CNW territory, of course.) Also the KCS has revamped the old "Southern Belle" with pretty much the same purpose in line. They even revamped or overhauled an old EMD unit -- I don't know if it's an "E" or an "F" unit, but it is definitely postwar-era. When NS still had a "J" class steam engine or two, they would do things like fall color excursions. I don't think they have stopped doing this, but I don't think the J's are running all the time. And IIRC CSX does the occasional excursion although it may be billed as an "inspector's trip" or some such malarkey. Another PR-wise way to kiss institutional butt is to run specials to important and crowded public events, like college football matches, but then again it's not for hoi polloi like us ordinary railfans. It's a pity, really. Who would enjoy the experience more?
And BNSF: yes, it does seem like they are running away from their heritage. It's almost a case of "embarrasment of riches," with so many important predecessor lines with so many vivid colors (I for one am particularly fond of the old GN "Big Sky" blue) and idiosyncratic imagery (NP's "yin-yang", for example). Seems as well there are very few of us who don't like the warbonnet. BTW have you noticed some short lines come very close to copying the warbonnet logo? - al
Hmmmmmmm........... "Big, Nasty, Snotty Fu er?"TEASING, friends!!!!!! But I just couldn't resist. For my $.02, I was quite pleased with the original "Heritage I" scheme, and thought that the BNSF should have kept it as the standard. While I was happy when the pre-merger Santa Fe brougt back the red Warbonnet for it's Super Fleet intermodal push, by the time of the merger I was prepared to let it go again; my logic being that starting a newly merged company with a "fresh page" was less traumatic than watching a cherished image undergo a strange metamorphosis - which is what soon happened to the BNSF, IMHO.
My first BNSF sighting was also at Lindenwood yard; while I can't recall the precise road number, I do know that it was a former BN GP-38. Better still, I could also see that it was an ex-Frisco unit, as it still had it's nose-mounted Gyralite. It was fresh out of the paint booth, and looked just wonderful in the Omaha Orange and Pullman Green, with gold stripes. However, I did notice something a bit unusual - the BNSF on the long hood seemed to be in the old Santa Fe "Cooper Black" font, rather than something else, like Railroad Roman, or whatever. And all though it was displaced a bit by the still-present Gyralite, there was no mistaking where the familiar cross-within-a-circle logo on the short hood came from.At that time, I had mixed feelings for a while, but I quickly accepted the GN colors representing BN's part of the contribution, and the styling, lettering, and logo representing "Uncle John" as a workable idea, and forgot my misgivings. They were revived pretty quickly when the road adopted both the "cigar-band" nose-logo design, revised yellow "speed-striping / lettering" AND the silvered undercarriage after barely one year of the original scheme's debut!!! I also started hearing a lot of "BN-vs.-Santa Fe" mutterings in Trains, regarding who was trying to "dominate" the new road. Now, I'm old enough to remember the "Red Team / Green Team" feud that contributed to Penn Central's collapse, and the creeping mis-use of Santa Fe-evocative graphic ideas seemed to be history about to repeat itself, or so I feared at the time. Eventually, my fears proved to be misguided - the BNSF was and still is quite healthy, and is sharing in the current boom the entire industry is also enjoying. Although I don't think their current "swoosh" image is a great improvement over "Heritage II," I also know that we're talking about aesthetics here; what REALLY matters to the corporation is the performance on the bottom line, for the shareholders. But, from a public-relations viewpoint, might I at least suggest finding a shade of Omaha Orange that's DURABLE, as a modest first step?
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
MopacBarrettTunnel wrote: Hmmmmmmm........... "Big, Nasty, Snotty Fu er?"TEASING, friends!!!!!! But I just couldn't resist. For my $.02, I was quite pleased with the original "Heritage I" scheme, and thought that the BNSF should have kept it as the standard. While I was happy when the pre-merger Santa Fe brougt back the red Warbonnet for it's Super Fleet intermodal push, by the time of the merger I was prepared to let it go again; my logic being that starting a newly merged company with a "fresh page" was less traumatic than watching a cherished image undergo a strange metamorphosis - which is what soon happened to the BNSF, IMHO.My first BNSF sighting was also at Lindenwood yard; while I can't recall the precise road number, I do know that it was a former BN GP-38. Better still, I could also see that it was an ex-Frisco unit, as it still had it's nose-mounted Gyralite. It was fresh out of the paint booth, and looked just wonderful in the Omaha Orange and Pullman Green, with gold stripes. However, I did notice something a bit unusual - the BNSF on the long hood seemed to be in the old Santa Fe "Cooper Black" font, rather than something else, like Railroad Roman, or whatever. And all though it was displaced a bit by the still-present Gyralite, there was no mistaking where the familiar cross-within-a-circle logo on the short hood came from.At that time, I had mixed feelings for a while, but I quickly accepted the GN colors representing BN's part of the contribution, and the styling, lettering, and logo representing "Uncle John" as a workable idea, and forgot my misgivings. They were revived pretty quickly when the road adopted both the "cigar-band" nose-logo design, revised yellow "speed-striping / lettering" AND the silvered undercarriage after barely one year of the original scheme's debut!!! I also started hearing a lot of "BN-vs.-Santa Fe" mutterings in Trains, regarding who was trying to "dominate" the new road. Now, I'm old enough to remember the "Red Team / Green Team" feud that contributed to Penn Central's collapse, and the creeping mis-use of Santa Fe-evocative graphic ideas seemed to be history about to repeat itself, or so I feared at the time. Eventually, my fears proved to be misguided - the BNSF was and still is quite healthy, and is sharing in the current boom the entire industry is also enjoying. Although I don't think their current "swoosh" image is a great improvement over "Heritage II," I also know that we're talking about aesthetics here; what REALLY matters to the corporation is the performance on the bottom line, for the shareholders. But, from a public-relations viewpoint, might I at least suggest finding a shade of Omaha Orange that's DURABLE, as a modest first step?
I agree about the need for durable paint. I caught a few sun-bleached dash-9s out in California last summer. Maybe the paint suppliers should set up a test facility out there. If it can stand being outside in death valley without fading then we have a winner.
GIVE IT UP THE SANTA FE ,CB&Q, BN ARE GONE FOREVER AND THEY WILL NEVER BE BACK ! GET USE TO IT THE BNSF IS HERE TO STAY IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. TO ME THE BNSF IS THE ONLY RAILROAD THAT HAD THE GUTS TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND CHANGE THE FUTURE IN RAILROADS.
BRAKEWOMAN wrote:GIVE IT UP THE SANTA FE ,CB&Q, BN ARE GONE FOREVER AND THEY WILL NEVER BE BACK ! GET USE TO IT THE BNSF IS HERE TO STAY IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. TO ME THE BNSF IS THE ONLY RAILROAD THAT HAD THE GUTS TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND CHANGE THE FUTURE IN RAILROADS.
please. it makes it come across as yelling and all-caps posts are frowned upon
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
No, No, No The past is just that, the past. Where do we stop? Santa Fe engines with their blue and gold running on old Sante Fe trackage. Great Northern running across the North. Northern Pacific in the middle with the Milwaukee Road. Each Division depending on their heritage wearing the colors of their parent road on their engines. Maybe the CP Rail will run only CP engines north of the border and SOO and WC south of the border.
Let's leave the past to the model railroaders who can go back in time as far as they want and let the railroad of their youth continue on. I happen to model the SOO line from Theif River Falls MN to Glenwood MN. And on my little space in time the SOO line owns the CP. We don't need to relive the past, just model it.
Last but not least, each company needs to have its own identity and logo, not something borrowed from the past that only represents part of the spectrum that makes up the BNSF empire.
davews wrote:My vote is yes. It's not a matter of "our entertainment." I value heritage, continuity,and honoring the past which I believe is a worthwhile consideration for all huge corporate entities which are generally perceived by the public to be cold, bloodless, and ruthless. And I do believe BNSF would be well advised to honor all their predecessors in this way. Besides, fostering good will and a favorable public image surely must have a positive effect on the bottom line.
BRAKEWOMAN wrote: GIVE IT UP THE SANTA FE ,CB&Q, BN ARE GONE FOREVER AND THEY WILL NEVER BE BACK ! GET USE TO IT THE BNSF IS HERE TO STAY IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. TO ME THE BNSF IS THE ONLY RAILROAD THAT HAD THE GUTS TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND CHANGE THE FUTURE IN RAILROADS.
Couldn't have said it better! Frankly, I don't see what's wrong with the orange and the wedge. I like the warbonnet also, and they're still many locomotives with this paint scheme, so my advice is to get photos while you can, and once it's gone (I have a feeling it will still be a long time though) we'll just have to accept the fact that the BNSF is the BNSF and nothing's going to change that or their paint scheme.
First, The Sante Fe name was and is the MOST recognized railroad name in the WORLD!Second, It was a BN takeover and they showed who was the boss. There was no respectfor the greatest name in railroading. Also the only railroad to use a cross in their symbol. Just the way it goes. Corporate power throwing away one of the greatest know product names. You would never see Proctor&Gamble doing such a thing.
chuckles wrote: First, The Sante Fe name was and is the MOST recognized railroad name in the WORLD!Second, It was a BN takeover and they showed who was the boss. There was no respectfor the greatest name in railroading. Also the only railroad to use a cross in their symbol. Just the way it goes. Corporate power throwing away one of the greatest know product names. You would never see Proctor&Gamble doing such a thing.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
If Union Pacific can merge with a half dozen (or so) railroads and still call itself Union Pacific,why can't Santa Fe merge with one railroad (Burlingtoon Northern) and still call itself Santa Fe?
WARBONNET FOREVER!
Proctor and Gamble has to fight for shelf space and to catch the consumer's eye. The railroads don't work that way. ABC Inc. ain't gonna care what color the engines are - just as long as they get their stuff moved the quickest and/or the cheapest...
The Santa Fe and the warbonnet are dead. Get over it.
chuckles wrote:First, The Sante Fe name was and is the MOST recognized railroad name in the WORLD!Second, It was a BN takeover and they showed who was the boss. There was no respectfor the greatest name in railroading. Also the only railroad to use a cross in their symbol. Just the way it goes. Corporate power throwing away one of the greatest know product names. You would never see Proctor&Gamble doing such a thing.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
My take on this dicusssion recognizes the nostalgia and importance of it in our collective souls. It's amazing how, once you've lost something, you can often appreciate it more than when it was common-we take things for granted.
I miss the Great Northern, Wabash and 20th Century Ltd. livery and many others.
When Burlington Northern changed their colors in the early 90's', I didn't take to it too well, but got use to it. The current BNSF colors, when I first some them seemed like over-dazzle, but now-well, it's pretty special to me. It may be inevitable that it will some day pass from the scene. I loved the warbonnet-I have the classic Lionel 2343 and the 1959 red stripe 2500's running in my basement to prove it.
Those who say "those days are dead and gone, get over it" are right. What gets me, and I don't know who holds sway over cultural privilege, is why Amtrak, with it's terrible name, and uninspired paint scheme, doesn't paint it's trains the colors of the classic trains that ran in the US years ago. I know that perhaps the actual names of railroads (even though long gone) may still have ownership rights held be some enity, but the paint? Does anyone know?
Amtrak as a name is as boring as it's paint. Red, White and Blue has it's place in our culture, but on something other than a train. And since Amtrak does names its trains in the fashion of fallen flag consists, maybe they should paint them as such. It would also be good advertisement.
Ok, lastly, and I know this is mean spirited, but there are a lot of top corporate types who apparently aren't hired for their brains, nor their artistic, aesthetic capacities. Look at at crappy examples of everything from some cars, to some buildings, to corporate names, the current acronym fetish, and I'll rest my case.
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