Do the rails still promote from within?

[Ulrich]

Some of today's rail CEOs like Hunter Harrison of CN got their start working in operating postions way back when...does this still happen i.e. can someone who is currently a locomotive/engineer/conductor aspire to become the CEO? Or are these managment types now recruited like bankers...MBA grads through a managment trainee program?

[zugmann]

A lot of hte new mangagers around here are hired from the outside.  Most RRers don't want the pay cut to be promoted!  Nor the stress, loss of HOS, etc...

[Ulrich]

Good answer...glad to hear you guys are paid well.

[zardoz]

Good answer...glad to hear you guys are paid well.

He never said they were paid well; he said that rails do not want to take a pay cut in addition to the stresses of management.

Anyway, "well" is a relative term, unless one is refering to a location where liquids from the ground can be extracted.

[Ulrich]

I realize that; however, I'm sure the managment folks are paid reasonably well also...who would bother to get a good education and put up with the stresses of managment if the pay is terrrible?.. Anyway..."well" in the context I used in is a relative term... 

Let me revise my previous statement to "HOPEFULLY" you're paid well.  

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Anyone who has ever held a first-level supervisory position knows full well that they make less money than some of the people under them.  Supervisors are management and are salaried (exempt from overtime pay) while labor receives time and one half for the extra hours.

[Ulrich]

That makes sense...but I guess for someone who takes the long view of his/her career and wants to progress making less now is okay if there are rewards further down the road. It's a bit of a crap shoot..what if you take that supervisor's job and then you don't move ahead? But then again if you're capable and hard working in five to ten years you're a VP of something and making in the mid six figures or more.

[zardoz]

That makes sense...but I guess for someone who takes the long view of his/her career and wants to progress making less now is okay if there are rewards further down the road. It's a bit of a crap shoot..what if you take that supervisor's job and then you don't move ahead? But then again if you're capable and hard working in five to ten years you're a VP of something and making in the mid six figures or more.

Very true.  Unfortunately, there is so much "us vs them" mentality around the railroad (and probably elsewhere), that very few of the guys desire to become one of "them".  Additionally, if a union person takes an official job, and down the road gets demoted (laid off, dowwnsized), then most likely they will return to the ranks of the very people he was recently supervising...an uncomfortable situation to say the least.

[Ulrich]

That's interesting. A few years ago I worked for a very large well kown truckload carrier that had a formalized managment training program geared to training the top people...like VP's and up. The program was open to everyone although they had one caveat: if you're selected and don't make the cut you can't go back to your old job...you're basically out. I knew one or two people (not me!) who went for it...lasted a year in their senior roles and didn't work out..I never tried out for the program because I'm really not the corporate type...i.e. if you're capable but just not one of the group you can get bounced just the same...  

[BaltACD]

Most carriers still promote from within, however, consider that the 1st level supervisior is one of the very broad bottom bricks of a large pyramid....to get above the bottom level involves a lot of hours and a lot of posterior kissing and a whole lot of luch.  The Brass Ring is the form of motovation, however, the ring keep moving just out of the reach of most of those grabing for it.  Been there, done that and all things considered....I'll take the money and run.

[wjstix]

One thing I've heard from an old Soo employee is that it can be hard for US employees of Canadian Pacific to get ahead, CP prefers promoting Canadians and sending them to new positions in the US rather than promote former Soo Line or other US railroad people. Don't know if CN has similar policies with ex-IC or DMIR people.

This came up a few years ago now, could be different today however.

[Ulrich]

Well CN's top dog is Hunter Harrison..he's an American and he even works out of Chicago even though CN's HQ is in Montreal. Not sure about CP's policies but I would imagine at the very senior levles they look for star performers regardless of citizenship.

[zugmann]

Low level managers are bounced around like a ping pong ball - staying anywhere for more than a year is rare.  Unless you get stuck at some crappy lcoation, then the RR seems all to eager to let them there.  With no HOS, you could work 18 hours at a terminal, go home, go to bed to be waken 5 minutes later because a car derailed and you have to be there.  

As was said earlier, to get any higher up involves posterior kissing, and you tick off the wrong person - forget it, you are stuck in some crappy terminal the rest of your life.  (I've seen it).  Now the retirementis a little better - which is why some try to get in a manger's spot before retirement... but man, it is like selling your soul to the devil.   

 

[Anonymous]

We had a trainmaster who went back on his seniority. The same guys that he wrote up and herassed made his life hell. As soon as he made a seniority move someone would pull him out of spite. Payback's a mutha when you tick off the wrong ones.

[Mudekk]

  ... but man, it is like selling your soul to the devil.   

 

Couldn't the same be said for Train & Engine Service?  It's not like the carrier(s) are treating the help any better.

[BaltACD]

  ... but man, it is like selling your soul to the devil.   

 

Couldn't the same be said for Train & Engine Service?  It's not like the carrier(s) are treating the help any better.

The help has the protection of the Hours of Service Law....

1st level supervision gets the treatment of field hands on a Platation in the days before the Civil War.

[beaulieu]

One thing I've heard from an old Soo employee is that it can be hard for US employees of Canadian Pacific to get ahead, CP prefers promoting Canadians and sending them to new positions in the US rather than promote former Soo Line or other US railroad people. Don't know if CN has similar policies with ex-IC or DMIR people.

This came up a few years ago now, could be different today however.

The current CP VPO is an American woman from the Norfolk Southern. 

[arbfbe]

Probably the strongest trait the RRs are looking for when deciding to bring someone up from the ranks is a team player.  You had better bite your tongue hard to keep your mouth shut even if you see the train wreck coming.  Critism of other managers is a career killer.  That is a very hard habit to break if you have spent time in the ranks watching the results of managerial decision making.