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Elgin, Joliet & Eastern- a couple of questions.

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Posted by ndbprr on Saturday, August 18, 2007 7:21 PM
A really neat area on the J is Griffith, Indiana.  The J, GTW, PRR and several other roads crossed there making it the largest group of crossings in the country at one time.  even today it is massive.  I'll bet the locals didn;t get much sleep with all those diamonds there
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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:17 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 MP173 wrote:

Murph:

First of all, are you selling any lumber these days? 

Surprizingly, yes.  Our area seems to be an oasis of growth and building.  We are told that we are one of the few bright spots 'round these parts.  Of late, we've been overrun by hungry salesmen from all over.

     You mention Belt's Blue Island hump yard in Chicago.  I recognize the name.  Is it an old Milwaukee Road yard?

 

No Murph the Milw's big yard in Chicago was the Bensenville Yard located on the city's north west side. The IHB Blue Island yard is on the south west side. The third belt road serving the metro area is the Belt Railway of Chicago whose big yard is in a community known as Clearing. This is also on the south west side but nearer in to the city's center than Blue Island. I don't recall if the BRC Clearing yard is a hump operation or not but someone will likely let us know in a following reply.

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Posted by EJE818 on Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:40 PM

Clearing Yard is alive and well, and is just as busy as ever, with BNSF, UP, CN, CP, CSX, NS, IC&E, WSOR, plus the BRC's own trains using it. I have been to Griffith before. Great place to go see the EJ&E. There is a nice museum next to the tracks that has 3 EJ&E cabooses (there seem to be quite a few EJ&E cabooses donated to various towns) plus Griffith tower. The neat thing about Griffith is not only do you see EJ&E trains, but also CN trains on the old GTW mainline. Another little known fact is that EJ&E steam engine 765 is on display in Gary across from town hall, and is said to be the last existing EJ&E steam engine. It was donated by EJ&E and USS to the town. It is too bad that it isn't in the nicest area, and a lot of its con trols have been vandalized or stolen. Dave, I agree with you it must be frustrating to the employees of EJ&E that they have dozens and dozens of merger rumors every year. I just can't see one railroad owning the EJ&E outright. BNSF and UP would object if CN tried to buy the EJ&E. I've heard these CN meger rumors for years, and nothing has happened, so I don't see it happening all of a sudden. I remember the day that they actually sent me a HO model of 703, a hat, and a letter thanking me for being interested in their railroad. I always hear people complain about how unfriendly the EJ&E is, but that isn't true The EJ&E is truely a unique and unusual railroad (and well worth a visit on any Chicago trip) that has been around for almost 110 years and if it is still around in 5-10 years, I would love to work for them!

Long live the EJ&E!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:50 AM
Clearing is indeed a hump yard, in fact its the only bi-directional hump in the country.  It is quite common to see hump cuts being pushed in BOTH directions over the crest of the hump.  The whole-set up, including the 59th Street line, was designed with efficient movement of cars and equipment in mind when it was built in the 1900's.  There are balloon tracks running under the hump that were built to allow steam locomotives from transfer runs to be serviced and sent to the departure yards without having to use a turntable.
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Posted by vlmuke on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:19 AM
clearing is really kinda of neat to see I have had to wait on a cab for several hours and its cool to see cuts going both ways and if you doing any railfanning be careful as they have cameras everywhere that have really high resolution, blue island is kinda scary for rail crews as they will steal you line up and run right in front of you. you really need to go switch to switch if not by the time you walk back to your train and turn around someone will have stole you line up
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:46 AM
 vlmuke wrote:
clearing is really kinda of neat to see I have had to wait on a cab for several hours and its cool to see cuts going both ways and if you doing any railfanning be careful as they have cameras everywhere that have really high resolution, blue island is kinda scary for rail crews as they will steal you line up and run right in front of you. you really need to go switch to switch if not by the time you walk back to your train and turn around someone will have stole you line up
Are you saying other trains will steal your spot in line to get in the yard?  Isn't that determined by the dispatcher?

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Posted by vlmuke on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:55 AM
No what I am saying while in blue island there are a lot of crossovers in the yard to get where you need to go and when you stop and get out to line yourself thur several crossovers and walk back many times the local guys will flip one or more of your switches to get where you need to go and you have to wait on them then go back and reline yourself back to that track it kinda like a free for all it can get scary real quick
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Posted by EJE818 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:02 AM
Clearing is quite a neat yard. A great view of it can be had from the Cicero Avenue bridge, which has sidewalks on both sides of it for safe viewing from public property. Other then the bridge, most of the yard is unaccessable for railfanning. EJ&E's main yard is Kirk Yard. Joliet Yard seems to have diminished in use the last couple of years as the old shop buildings (they were not owned by EJ&E but by a private passenger car repair company) have came down and the switch engines there have been getting a lot of time off. A lot of trains (usually taconite trains off the eastern sub) go through Joliet Yard without stopping. If you plan on visiting the EJ&E, they seem to be busier in the winter as taconite trains coming from the CN (DM&IR) and BNSF use the line, and EJ&E will sometimes lease power for these trains from other short lines or leasing companies, or in other cases just run the CN power through with EJ&E crews. Do not enter any of the EJ&E yards without permission if you do visit. EJ&E is very friendly until you trespass. A good view of Joliet Yard can be had from the Jackson Street bridge.. Kirk yard is pretty hard to get even close to without trespassing, which is kind of too bad since thats where the ex-DM&IR SDMs plus SD18 616, which still has a high hood work. Another good spot for the EJ&E is Pine Junction. Pine is one of the only places where you can see the SDMs. The only problem with Pine is that CSX is known for throwing people out of there even if you aren't on their property.
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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:57 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Chris30 wrote:
You know that debate about open access? One company owns the track, maintains it, dispatches it, etc. Then the railroad becomes a toll road for whoever wants to use it. That's what the "J" is now (my opinion). Does the "J" uses trackage rights? I'm not sureThe BNSF runs stack/coal trains from Eola to various points, the UP coal/auto (and lets not forget the ICE detour) trains from West Chicago both north and south on the "J" and the CN enters and exits at different points. The "J" also has plenty of its own traffic. My point... I can't see one class-one buying the entire "J" because at least two others would object. Besides, the only class-one that uses the "J" from one end to the other is the UP.
CC

Chris- What's up with the font on your post?  I can't read it.  It's small, and weird-like the lower lines on an eye doctor's eye chart.  Any idea?

Murph -- besides the usual font-size adjustment, you can adjust the setting for viewing all font sizes on these forums. Go to your "profiles" page and choose a different size.

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Posted by n012944 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:31 PM
 MP173 wrote:

Murph:

First of all, are you selling any lumber these days? 

Regarding the other lines in Chicago...the J, IHB (Harbor) and Belt Railway of Chicago (Belt) are somewhat similar in that their routes are all used for trackage rights by the class ones.

We have discussed the J's trackage.

The Harbor runs similar to J, except on the inside (closer to Chicago).  It is a major funnel of freight coming off of the NS other eastern railroads.  They have a major yard at Blue Island (hump) and a flat yard at Gibson (Hammond, In).  Gibson is used for auto racks.  Trains are received at Gibson and then switched into solid trains.  Typically, NS, CSX, and CN will bring in autorack cars which are then assembled into solid UP and BNSF outbound trains.  Dont know if the same happens Eastbound.

The Harbor runs north to ex Milwaukee Road mainline at Franklin Park.  Major interchange points includes Blue Island Tower, Argo (with BNSF ex SF mainline), BNSF (ex BN) at Lagrange, Proviso with UP and Franklin Park with CP. 

The Harbor is owned by CP and NS, possibly another road.  They, like the J are also a heavy industrial railroad, particularly the NW Indiana area with Mittal Steel.  Also Corn Products in Chicago is a big shipper.

 

More later,

ed

 

Don't forget about the B&OCT which is still used as by many class ones to get from the north side to the south side.  Athough the B&OCT no longer has any locomotives it still exists as a separate part of CSX.

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Posted by DPD1 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:20 PM

Nice shot Jim, mind if I save it for the site?

As far as the rumors... All I can say is that it looks like there's about a 90% chance that *something* will probably be announced in a couple weeks or so. As far as the exact details, I think that's still up in the air. Unfortunately, the B&OCT scenario is proof that an arrangement like that is possible. Cross your fingers and hope for the best.

Dave
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 J T wrote:

EJ&E switcher #313 working the Mittal Steel factory in East Chicago in June:

 

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Posted by EJE818 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:34 PM

I think that if the entire EJ&E ever were to get taken by one class one, the Chicago railroad industry would come crashing down with it. EJ&E connects with every major line coming into Chicago and has many connections. CN, UP, and BNSF all are major users of the EJ&E plus NS, CSX, and CP all interchange with it. A class one take-over would cause a loss of some, if not most of these connections and the loss of a alternative route around Chicago. The other routes around Chicago, the IHB, BRC, and B&OCT are already congested with freight from the class ones, and so are many of the class one routes in the area, and losing the EJ&E as a alternative route would cause even more congestion and possibly bring the area to almost a complete stop. I think it is going to be pretty hard for CN to buy the EJ&E without objections by many other railroads. I think that if anything happens, the EJ&E would be more of a IHB type railroad owned equally by CN, BNSF, UP and possibly one or more of the other 3 class ones. No matter what happens, I'm going to enjoy the EJ&E as it is right now, and here are a few photos I have taken of the EJ&E recently.

SW1500 460 heads east through Pine Junction.

EJ&E 460

This isn't active, but EJ&E steam engine 765 serves as a tribute to the EJ&E's history at Gary near town hall.

EJ&E 765

EJ&E SD38-2 659 backs towards West Bridge Junction.

EJ&E 659

EJ&E 667 sits at West Bridge Junction.

EJ&E 667

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:13 PM
 EJE818 wrote:

CN, UP, and BNSF all are major users of the EJ&E plus NS, CSX, and CP all interchange with it.

Why is it, that the Western class 1's use it, but the eastern class 1's (and CP) only interchange with it?

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Posted by DPD1 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:19 PM
 EJE818 wrote:

SW1500 460 heads east through Pine Junction.

EJ&E 460

 

Good catch on that new 460. What's that white tube thing on the side?

Hey, if you feel like it, send me the latest year or two of your J originals with location and date info for the site. I don't know why, but a lot of the archive sites seem like they add extra compression on the photo or something. Like this shot is excellent, but it's got a lot of compression happening.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=144984

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Posted by EJE818 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:32 PM
Yeah, Railpictures does that a lot. It just the price you pay for sending photos to a website like that.
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:37 PM

 DPD1 wrote:
What's that white tube thing on the side?
 

It better not be a push pole.

The offset headlight looks odd.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:47 PM
 nanaimo73 wrote:

 DPD1 wrote:
What's that white tube thing on the side?
 

It better not be a push pole.

The offset headlight looks odd.

It does look like the back end of the white tube is on a pivot, and the front end is locked into a catch.  Maybe it's a big spit-wad shooter, to keep railfans at a respectable distance?Mischief [:-,]

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Posted by n012944 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:12 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 EJE818 wrote:

CN, UP, and BNSF all are major users of the EJ&E plus NS, CSX, and CP all interchange with it.

Why is it, that the Western class 1's use it, but the eastern class 1's (and CP) only interchange with it?

CSX owns the B&OCT, the CP owns part of the Harbor, and the NS owns either part of the Belt or the Harbor, not sure which.  So the eastern class 1's want to keep their trains on track that they have an interest in as long as possible to save money.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by DPD1 on Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:55 PM

That's a cool shot actually...It's been lifted now, but there use to be a ban on certain units using that line due to a protected dragon fly. That's why it's nicknamed the bug line.

Dave
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 TimChgo9 wrote:

I live near the "J" and I do hear alot of activity. I don't always get to see much, but when I am out and about, I have seen at least,(what appears to me anyway)  one BNSF move a day, the UP bringing in loaded coal trains, and hauling out empties, plus the usual EJ&E stuff. Weber Rd, goes over the "J" and the siding that is there is almost always occupied by something.  There is a branch line that paralells Route 53, north of the "J" it apparently serves the power plant at Romeo Rd, and the DesPlaines River. I see the UP and EJE units taking coal trains up the line, as well as hoppers full of rock that come from the quarry over there.  The rock hoppers are stored on a couple of storage tracks that are just south of the Route 7 bridge when they are not being used. I caught the following, EJE #661 taking a string of empty rock hoppers back up to the storage tracks.

 

 

I catch a movement at least once a week on this line, but this was the only time I had my camera with me.  Apparently the line traverses a "prairie preserve" that is administered by the county. Division St is the only access to the area. In the fall, the colors are pretty dramatic.  Anyway, just thought I would share that with you... 

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Posted by Cris_261 on Monday, August 20, 2007 12:11 AM
 nanaimo73 wrote:

 DPD1 wrote:
What's that white tube thing on the side?
 

It better not be a push pole.

The offset headlight looks odd.

The offset headlight and the number boards on the front end of the SW1500's cab indicate that the locomotive started life working for SP.

From here to there, and back again.
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Posted by ericsp on Monday, August 20, 2007 12:49 AM
 Cris_261 wrote:
 nanaimo73 wrote:

 DPD1 wrote:
What's that white tube thing on the side?
 

It better not be a push pole.

The offset headlight looks odd.

The offset headlight and the number boards on the front end of the SW1500's cab indicate that the locomotive started life working for SP.

To expand on that, it used to have a red light in the middle and two more white lights on the other side, so it originally was symmetrical. Also, it may have been a SSW locomotive.

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Posted by snagletooth on Monday, August 20, 2007 2:42 AM
SP/SSW, Tomato/Tamatoe. yada, yada, yada. It's not a EJ&E original, it's an SP/SSW. And one  single SD38 can still pull a loaded coal train out if Eola if need be. Now that's a railroad!
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Posted by EJE818 on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:25 AM

460 is a former Cotton Belt SW1500, and it still has the unique headlight. Here is proof you never know what will run down the EJ&E. Here is a train with a CN SD40-2W, a UP AC4400CW, and WC SD40 6001, which was screpped at Homewood about a year  later.

CN 5294

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:29 AM

Does the EJ&E have 20'6" over the rail clearance from Leithton all the way to Matteson and Griffith ?

The 3 very large container cranes for the Prince Rupert Fairview Terminal have arrived, and CN double stack service to Memphis from Fairview is scheduled to begin in September. 

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:11 PM
Did the J save any of the center-cab units? Do any still exist that were sold to other railroads?
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled, however, to their own facts." No we can't. Charter Member J-CASS (Jaded Cynical Ascerbic Sarcastic Skeptics) Notary Sojac & Retired Foo Fighter "Where there's foo, there's fire."
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Posted by EJE818 on Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:47 PM
As far as I know there is only one baldwin center-cab still in existance, the MN&S 21 at the Illinois Railway Museum.
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:45 PM
 Poppa_Zit wrote:
Did the J save any of the center-cab units? Do any still exist that were sold to other railroads?
   How many center cab Baldwins did the J have?  Was Baldwin their primary 1st generation locomotive of choice?

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:13 PM

 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Poppa_Zit wrote:
Did the J save any of the center-cab units? Do any still exist that were sold to other railroads?
   How many center cab Baldwins did the J have?  Was Baldwin their primary 1st generation locomotive of choice?

Murph,

Do a google search for EJ&E Railroad Archives. At that site you'll find an all time roster of their locomotives as well a a wealth of other interesting info. Their first diesels were numbered in the 100 series and all were Baldwin center cabs. As a matter of fact IIRC their entire locomotive fleet when they completed diesielization around 1948 was made up solely of these engines.

Mark

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Posted by MP173 on Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:32 PM

Interestingly, when I was in East Chicago today I noticed some work being done on the J.  It appears there are two projects right now.

First the branch to Whiting is receiving welded rail.  This is being laid just west of Cline Avenue.  There was a crane and a caboose, plus other equipment.  I didnt stop as it was about 95 degrees and the AC felt pretty good.

Second, about one mile west there is a Y off of the Whiting branch which heads further west and crosses the IHB at Grassilli Tower.  The J is laying complete new track and there is a sign at the road saying the rail crossing will be closed for 21 days beginning Sept 4th. 

Anyone know what is going on there?  I am wondering if the J isnt putting in an interchange track to the IHB, otherwise why rebuild for just a local train daily?

 

ed

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 24, 2007 10:29 AM
 KCSfan wrote:

 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Poppa_Zit wrote:
Did the J save any of the center-cab units? Do any still exist that were sold to other railroads?
   How many center cab Baldwins did the J have?  Was Baldwin their primary 1st generation locomotive of choice?

Murph,

Do a google search for EJ&E Railroad Archives. At that site you'll find an all time roster of their locomotives as well a a wealth of other interesting info. Their first diesels were numbered in the 100 series and all were Baldwin center cabs. As a matter of fact IIRC their entire locomotive fleet when they completed diesielization around 1948 was made up solely of these engines.

Mark

EJ&E's road fleet around 1948 was the centercabs and some RS2's.  Not surprisingly, they also had a fair collection of switchers from Baldwin, Alco and EMD, including some Winton-powered switchers and High Hoods.

Around 1956-1958, almost all of the centercabs were rebuilt.  Most were re-powered with EMD engines and re-numbered in the 900 series, others were rebuilt with upgraded Baldwin engines and re-numbered in the 700 series, all kept the same last two digits of their number.  Only 100 and 118 were not rebuilt.

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