CSX S&C Branch

[bbrant]

QM & CSXEngineer -

Been busy with the "honey do" list here the past few days. Haven't even made it down to Rockwood like I hoped. Tuesday night there was a train waiting to head for Johnstown on the "main" at Wilson Creek. I went to get pictures of it on Wed morning but it was gone before I got there. (I overhead someone on the scanner saying "Quick! Get out of here, he's got his camera with him!!" lol See, the DO know when I have my camera and when I don't! LOL)

CSXEngineer - Hope you can make it to the club. We have 17 operating layouts from Z to G scale. I'm hoping to make it in sometime today. I talked to one of the other members in church today who told me that my B&O E8 burned up a motor the other day. Got to go see what's going on with that.

QM - I know you don't make it to Somerset that often, but if you ever wanted to the the clubs layout, let me know and we can arrange a private showing.

Brian

[Modelcar]

Gee thanks Brian....We'll keep that in mind. Our next sheduled visit probably will be over the Memorial Day period. We generally spend about a week in the area then....and as I've said before, using the Hampton Inn as our headquarters.
Hope you can check out the info I emailed you on the Boswell Branch...Aerial photo that really shows it great. Be sure to click on the 11 by 17 size at the top of the screen as then it will show you quite a bit of what I've been describing....{Horseshoe curves, etc...}.

[Modelcar]

...One more Brian.....Heading north out of Somerset on old 219 and right before you get to the area of the new War-Mart...find a county road that takes off to the left and back in there one can find another horseshoe curve alignment of the Boswell Branch...and...the RoW of the old South Penn RR heading for the Laurel Hill mountain via the way of near Edie.

[bbrant]

Quentin -

I'll start with the bad news first. I got some e-mail from you but for whatever reason, I lost all my e-mail. I called our host provider but they don't backup any of the mail servers so all I had stored in there, along with pics you sent, is lost.

I was talking to a fellow from the train club yesterday and he mentioned the horseshoe curve that was near Wal-Mart. He said it was by Millers Orchard. He said near Sipesville there was a bridge that trains just managed to go underneath on the Boswell branch. And, from what he was saying, loaded coal drags would be moving very slow at this point so people would jump off the bridge and onto the train for a free ride into Somerset. They would get off the train when it stopped to get B&O approval to run on the S&C where the lines came together by the Stoystown Rd crossing in Somerset.

We had a very lengthy but interesting conversation. All I could think of was how you'd have enjoyed it as much as I did.

[Modelcar]

Brian...Traveling north on Old 219...now 985, I believe and right before you get to Sipesville you travel down a dip in the highway and right at the lowest point look close to your left {N W}, and you can still see the RoW of the Boswell Branch and that is where the bridge was....It carried the highway over the railroad. I don't know how much clearance it had for the railroad but it was a concrete bridge and some years ago when they did some work on the highway there they did away with the bridge.
I'll resend the aerial photo of the horseshoe curves over north of friedens we have talked about to replace the ones that were lost.

[bbrant]

Quentin -

Thanks for resending the e-mails but the pictures didn't show up. (Just go the red "x" where the picture should be.) Oh well, I'll have to give Terraserver a try. What address did you use to get the pictures?

I was on my way home last night and opted to take 985 at Sipesville. I seem to remember a bridge there too but the bridge is gone but you can still see where the Boswell branch once was. I think someone mentioned it went though Husband. I'll have to try and go home that way sometime to see if I can see any remenants of it.

Brian

[Modelcar]

...Brian, I know sometimes sending such pages via email doesn't produce the photo at the other end....In this case, when I go back and pull up what I sent you all I have to do is look on the screen near the upper area of where the picure should be...Click on the word "print"...and that brings up the photo for me
If that doesn't work....start by installing "Friedens, Pa."...for the starting point on Terraserver.com and the horseshoe curves start about 1.8 mile NW of there....There are 4 of them all wrapped around the hills within a distance of just a few miles...One is more that a horseshoe, in fact it's almost a circle...That's the one that crosses a county road and wraps around to gain 20 or so feet in elevation and comes right back across the same road just a couple 100 feet forward of the first crossing...Hope you can bring in the Photo I sent but if not, try starting at Friedens and work NW and you might get to it that way....Good luck.

[bbrant]

Quentin -

I took a look at Terraserver.com but couldn't locate the horseshoe curves. Did you look at color photos or black & white? I'll have to give it another shot when I have more time.

I mentioned earlier this week that I was talking to a guy from the train club about the S&C. He lives in Rockwood so I asked if he saw any new cars coming up from Johnstown America (or whatever their new name is). He hasn't seen anything but he said a few years ago they brought up some narrow gauge cars that JA built. They were loaded onto regular flat cars and brought up the S&C. Now that would've been something to see!

Makes me wonder if any other "unique" trains have ever traveled the S&C.

Brian

[bbrant]

CSXEngineer -

You still out there?? You mentioned that you've worked the S&C. What line do you work now?

Have a good one.

Brian

[Modelcar]

...Brian, sorry you can't seem to zero in on the Boswell Branch using Terraserver.com....You might try again on what I sent you....For one thing, try {at the upper area of the screen}, and click on "print"....That brings it up for sure when I bring up what I sent to you and when I clicked on that the picture appeared.
On viewing on terraserver.com the pic's are black and white. If you can bring up the town of Friedens...then move NW and the total milage to move is about 1.8 and you then should start seeing the curves....I'm sure you know what to look for looking down on the landscape...The railroad will of course be the straight lines and evenly built curves that make it stand out from county roads.

[bbrant]

I took a look at the B&W photos and was able to pick out one of the horseshoe curves so I'm making some progress!!

On a lighter note, I got a call from my wife a little bit ago. She was surprised because, get this, she had to wait for a train in Somerset! I had to laugh. Guess the S&C has a train on it's way to Johnstown!

[bbrant]

Just thought of another question regarding the S&C. Are there any online businesses between Somerset & Johnstown. I know the Agway plant in Somerset gets grain cars but are there any other businesses that get switched out before Johnstown?

[bbrant]

Here's a quick S&C update. There were a whopping 6 cars in the Somerset yard. One grain car on the siding waiting to be moved to the Agway plant where 2 grain cars (covered hoppers) were already placed. There was a lone tank car in the yard and 2 gons nearby. Must be a busy day!

A trip down to Rockwood showed a short train waiting to head to Johnstown on the "main" at Wilson Creek with 3 units (2 GP38-2s spliced by a GP40-2). The train consisted of 2 gons, a tank car and a flat car.

Brian

[Modelcar]

Brian...I haven't contributed on here now since Wednesday because the massive ice storm wrecked havoc in this area knocking out electric power. We were in a hotel 15 miles from here several days because of all this...It still looks like a war zone.
Now...On line customers on the Somerset to Johnstown line...Doesn't a soft drink bottling Co. get service with tank cars down near Johnstown area...I can't say just where it is but I do believe that business is active.
Glad to hear you made a bit of progress on finding the horseshoe curves and if you continue to look you should surely see the group nearest to Freidens that appear almost like a figure 8....Keep trying.

[bbrant]

Quentin -

Sorry to hear about the ice storm that hit your area. I hope your posting again is a sign that things are returning to normal.

I was working with a neighbor or a project he's doing for the Somerset Historical Center. He was showing me a map of Somerset county. The map was rather detailed in that it showed current RR tracks in the county. I was able to see where the Shanksville branch ran (since the track has never been torn up). Looks like there's even a horseshoe curve on that branch as well, at least from what it shows on the map.

My neighbor also mentioned that there's a member at the Historical Center who's knowledgeable on the railroad history around Somerset including the South Penn. Hopefully I'll get to meet him someday and learn more about how railroading once was in and around Somerset.

Thanks for posting the info on the online business. Is this where the tank cars are destin for? I thought I recalled hearing that there was a Pepsi or Coke plant in Johnstown.

Hope all is getting back to normal from the ice storm.

Brian

[Modelcar]

Brian: Yes, we're back in our home as of Saturday afternoon and since then it has warmed above freezing and the ice has been melted from the trees and power system here. We are of the lucky ones...and lost power for just about 3 days but there are thousands and thousand around Muncie and Delaware Co. still in the dark...Schools are closed, etc...Hopefully this better weather will aid the repair crews {in from as far away as North Carolina}, in getting the system back on line for the rest of the area. It has caused massive power system damage..! Our only loss was everything in our freezer {that was just filled a week ago} but others including flood waters...have lost much more.

On the tank cars, I believe some go down to near Johnstown to a Coke {drink}, plant. And on The Shanksville line, yes for sure it is still intact, at least it was a few years ago when I crossed it near Shanksville...Grown up in weeds, but none the less, still there. I had a friend working for B&O back some years ago and he was a brakemen and did get back in there several times and we talked about that track and remember him telling me it was quite curvy so I'm sure you most likely did see a horseshoe curve on your map of that branch.

That's interesting you are finding fellows with inteest and knowledge of the rail system there in Somerset Co of the recent past....I'd love to talk to them too....I'm pretty familiar where most of them were in the area we've been discussing as it is a keen interest for me and you know how one retains stuff he has an interest in.
A side note: On top of all the ice then Friday night we got 4 plus inches of snow and now since it's been warmed up by the end of today it will be mostly history. But looking at trees around here it looks like a tornado passed through...
Thanks for all your best wishes....Appreciated.
We had one of these 13 years ago here and at that time we were out of our home {being total electric}, for 5 days...so these kinds of weather systems don't happen that often but when they do they are costly...and to some worse.

[Modelcar]

Update on Ice caused problems around Muncie: Our todays paper relates we have repair crews working on our power transmission system here from 9 states...some as far away as Georgia and Oaklahoma...! 444 crews and over 1500 technicians on power line repair and tree trimmers.
Wife indicates she saw at least 50 crew vehicles in our Meijer's parking lot this morning...Probably a staging point and there to fuel trucks, etc...

[bbrant]

Quentin -

I didn't realize how much ice you had out your way. Losing everything in your freezer I'm sure has been costly but considering the flood waters you mentioned, things could have been much worse I'm sure. As of yesterday there were still some people in the Clearfield County area that were without power due to an ice storm last week. Fortunately we just had rain in Somerset and no flooding.

In Pittsburgh, the water along the Mon river in was close to spilling it's bank on over the CSX (ex-P&LE) line along the South Side. The NS Mon Line had a small mud slide cross their tracks, also on Pittsburgh's South Side. They (NS) must have had it cleaned up and suffered no major, if any, track damage since they had trains running in mid/late afternoon the same day it happened.

Ok, since we're on the topic of bad weather....do you recall any flooding that ever washed out any of the S&C at any time? I don't remember anything but that's not to say it never happened. I know the Keystone Sub was washed out in the 1984 flooding, just curious if anything like that ever happened on the S&C.

Brian

[Modelcar]

....Yes, Brian the electric transmission lines in this area really took a hit this time but as I mentioned, we have had massive numbers of crews working on it since it happened and still doing it 24/7 and by now have accomplished repairing even if some are temp. repairs...Restoring power is ongoing and hopefully all will be back in service soon....

Wash outs on the S&C have been rather rare in my memory....But I have one in mind and it happened right after I was discharged from the Service and that Fall {1954}, we had a massive storm {I believe from Hurricane Hazel}, about Sep. or Oct....and I remember of a RR bridge being washed out over someplace between Somerset and Rockwood...A line that branched off the S&C...and I believe that was the end of that branch...I think it was never rebuilt. I can't pin point just where it was but in the above mentioned area.

If you are familiar with what used to be Kimmel's Park on the Stoystown road and just south of Stoystown Jim had the creek damned to make a pretty nice body of water to his place there for boating, etc....and that storm took that dam out and that was the end of it...He never rebuilt it.

The S&C seemed to be built well above flood stage from the Somerset area and on down to Johnstown and I remember many times of hgh water in the area but don't remember of it getting up on the railroad in my lifetime....Possibly so, but not in my memory.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bbrant

CSXEngineer -

You still out there?? You mentioned that you've worked the S&C. What line do you work now?

Have a good one.

Brian

i wouldnt call what i did was working the line..lol.... i was a CQon the S&C for about 5 days back around 2000 or something like that... the days it went to johnstown i worked it...the days it came to connellsville..i ended up working the midnight yard job as a CQ in connellsville...... but that was when i flowed back from engin service to trainservice for a few months.....so basicly i was a conducoter rate brakeman..lol....right now..im working a reguler yard job for the time being...
csx engineer

[bbrant]

Sorry to sound dumb but I have to ask, what's it mean when you were a CQ? Ever have a chance to run or be on a train over Sand Patch? Back when I was a kid I was able to get a couple train rides on the S&C. One was from Somerset to Rockwood for a pickup and one was just up and down the yard in Somerset. Greatest thrill of my life!

[Modelcar]

....Brian, my father in law was a railroader at one time and he still had friends [some years ago], associated with the B&O at that time and we were going to set up a ride from Somerset area down to Johnstown area but alas time got away from us and didn't get it done....That would have been a trip that would have ranked right up with other exciting events for sure for me.
Can you imagine back when that route had several passenger runs each week day...! Hard to believe that really happened now...It must have been up until the early 30's. Probably the hard economic times did it in in that era.

[bbrant]

Quentin -

A ride from Somerset to Johnstown would've been great! (I'm grunting like Tim Allen right now.)

It is hard to imagine that a line that sees a single train a day once had several passenger trains in addition to it's normal freights that ran the line. I don't know when the passengers stopped running but it was no doubt due to financial reasoning.

I took the "long way" home last Thursday and went through Husband. Never noticed it until then but you can still see where the Boswell branch once ran. Been through that area a number of times but it wasn't until I specifically looked for it that I saw the right of way. The only thing that would've made it better is if I saw a train of hoppers going to or coming from the mines. Oh well. Maybe someday when theres a huge economic boom and the tracks need to be re-layed.....A guy can dream, can't he?

Brian

[Modelcar]

...Brian: Glad you got to see the Boswell Branch back in there....and if you do some more looking I am pretty sure you will see remnants of the South Penn RR heading for Laurel Mt. too......It was directional towards that area and connected almost right on to the Pennsylvania Turnpike grade and started up the mountain until it would have passed through the Quemahoming Tunnel...{That was later finished and used by the PW&S from Ligonier to Somerset...and then as it would have exited the west portal of the Que. Tunnel it separated from the later Turnpike grade by swinging in a large arc to the north and eventually coming around southwest and regaining the Turnpike grade to enter the Laurel Hill Tunnel bore...{same for South Penn and Penn Turnpike}....

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bbrant

Sorry to sound dumb but I have to ask, what's it mean when you were a CQ? Ever have a chance to run or be on a train over Sand Patch? Back when I was a kid I was able to get a couple train rides on the S&C. One was from Somerset to Rockwood for a pickup and one was just up and down the yard in Somerset. Greatest thrill of my life!

CQ means conductor quilfier.... basicly what that means is that i have conductors rights..but i wasnt quilifed on the branch..so to be able to hold the extra board that covers the S&C..i needed to be quilfed on it...so the make you a CQ and our assinged to that job untill you are relised.....
now as far as sandpatch....yes i have..and i hated evey min of it..... and not only is sandpatch a pain in my eyes....cumberland trerminal sucks too... make a hell of a run over the road..only to sit for 6 hours and outlaw at franklin St....
csx engineer

[bbrant]

Saw a freight tonight coming from Johnstown with new narrow gauge hopper cars (the cars were hauled on CSX flat cars). The train had 2 engines - a former Conrail GP40-2, road # 4448 and a GP38-2, road # 2641. Quite a site to see a the ex-Conrail unit on the S&C. The train itself was about 50-55 cars, the longest I've seen on the S&C for years.

Just thought I'd pass this along.

Brian

[bbrant]

Here's a link to a picture I took of a train I took today on the S&C. Train had mostly gons of scrap metal. I also included a link that has a picture of one of the bulkhead flats that hauled the narrow gauge hopper cars the other day. Flat cars are near the wye in Rockwood but the narrow gauge cars were not on them. Not sure how they were moved.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=3375

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=3374

[Modelcar]

....Brian, have any idea where the scrap metal is coming from.....At this point, I'm not up on whether there is any operation happening in the Mill....

[bbrant]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Brian, have any idea where the scrap metal is coming from.....At this point, I'm not up on whether there is any operation happening in the Mill....

To be honest with you, I'm completely at a loss where the scrap metal is coming from. Possibly from any of the mills in Pittsburgh or perhaps any scrap metal from barges but those are only guesses. Funny thing is I see the scrap metal going to and coming from Johnstown. Thought if anything full carloads like that would be shipped one way while empties were shipped the other. Shows my thinking.