seppburgh2This past week in Central Pennsylvania, NS seems to have suffered a classical mid-train string-lining situation. https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/train-derails-in-perry-county-near-susquehanna-river.html Being a Professional IT Project Manager, my job is to look out for risks and developed mitigation strategies. So when a train is assessed and turned over to the train crew, does the crew walk the length of the train to ID a String Lining car arrangement? If so, and one is found such as what is pictured in the above news feed, are they allowed to have the cars rearranged to prevent it? My two cents is the time at the terminal to rearrange the cars is worth losing the main for several days. Thoughts from the experts here?
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/train-derails-in-perry-county-near-susquehanna-river.html
Being a Professional IT Project Manager, my job is to look out for risks and developed mitigation strategies. So when a train is assessed and turned over to the train crew, does the crew walk the length of the train to ID a String Lining car arrangement? If so, and one is found such as what is pictured in the above news feed, are they allowed to have the cars rearranged to prevent it? My two cents is the time at the terminal to rearrange the cars is worth losing the main for several days. Thoughts from the experts here?
I don't know exact NS procedures.
On CSX crews receive 'Train Documents' for the train they are to be handling. Among the 'exceptional' items that the Train Documents identify is the location High-Wides, Hazmats, Long Cars, Short cars - a HAZGRAPH of the train is provided that graphically represents loads, empties, and a number of issues that various cars may have as identified in the Train Handling Rules. In addition to that each Sub Division has its own TTSI (Time Table Special Instructions) that may have specific restrictions on the specific Sub Division.
When I was last working, The S word had great impact upon the operations. Crews could appeal 'train make up issues' on the basis of safety and compliance with Train Handling Rules and request that the train be brought into compliance. Local Operating Officials could over rule the S word - however, if something happened it could be their career. What it is like in the EHH world of CSX, I have no idea.
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2 - 3 months ago NS had a pair of string-lining type derailments on Horseshoe Curve that rated a thread or two here, with much the same comments. The difference here is that this one occurred on what used to be known as the "Middle Division" (now Harrisburg?), whereas Horseshoe Curve is on the Pittsburg Division. Despite these incidents being less than 100 miles apart, vastly different curvature and grade characteristics.
Still, NS needs to look at its train-makeup rules, compliance with same, and train-handling by the crews. Some changes seem to be indicated . . . OTOH, how much traffic is running these days? Maybe that's why it happened - trying to combine 2 trains into 1?
- PDN.
Paul_D_North_JrMaybe that's why it happened - trying to combine 2 trains into 1?
I would opine that pre-blocking may play a part as well. If the troublesome cars should be in the block for "A", but that puts them at the head of the train...
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tree68I would opine that pre-blocking may play a part as well.
I think this is likely. In a 'computerized' system not administered and run by bean counters, this could be addressed comparatively easily with a quick reiteration of train resistance each time a block is added to a consist -- this quite possibly calling for more than one cut and flat switch to reorganize the prospective order of cars. A good PSR system would do this predictively to the extent that traffic flows within the consist's 'lifetime' were reasonably anticipated or "known".
Let he who sees, understand.
From what I have read on Train Orders; the cars that derailed at the west end of Rockville Bridge were more to the center of the train, with roughly 80 some odd cars behind and another 70-80 ahead. While the photos and the location of the derailment on a curve would tend to confirm this was a string line derailment; my personal jury is still out regarding whether train makeup or some other factor was the primary cause.
Curt
Juniata ManFrom what I have read on Train Orders; the cars that derailed at the west end of Rockville Bridge were more to the center of the train, with roughly 80 some odd cars behind and another 70-80 ahead. While the photos and the location of the derailment on a curve would tend to confirm this was a string line derailment; my personal jury is still out regarding whether train makeup or some other factor was the primary cause. Curt
It doesn't particularly matter where in the train the susceptible cars are located - it is more the matter of how much trailing tonnage is behind the susceptible cars. The trailing tonnage is what 'draws the string tight'. That 'tonnage' can be increased by attempting to move the train BEFORE brakes have fully released on the rear of the train.
My thought as well Balt. I recollect a string line derailment on the old bridge at Harpers Ferry a few years back where exactly that happened; the engineer started pulling before the train brakes and completed releasing.
CPR has what is called TrAM (train/area marshalling) which when the computer creates the consist list checks it for marshaling violations, such as long empty cars ahead of lots of tonnage. The criteria vary with the territory, depending of gradients, curvature, etc, with I think something like four classes. It also factors in the location of DPUs so must have fairly sophisticated algorithms.
Of course meeting the TrAM criteria does mean assembling the train can take more time, and a set-off may not be in the most convenient portion of the train. That will take longer, which the PSR fanatics hate and why they prefer to ignore basic physics. It ususally takes several derailments before it finally sinks in to their narrow minds that just maybe what the veterans are telling them might be correct.
Juniata ManMy thought as well Balt. I recollect a string line derailment on the old bridge at Harpers Ferry a few years back where exactly that happened; the engineer started pulling before the train brakes and completed releasing. Curt
It was only about 6 months ago - a train of grain empties heading from Winchester to Brunswick - started pulling before the air had released on the rear of the train and stringlined several cars from the head end into the Shenandoah River.
Good Point.
Thank You.
cx500 CPR has what is called TrAM (train/area marshalling) which when the computer creates the consist list checks it for marshaling violations, such as long empty cars ahead of lots of tonnage. The criteria vary with the territory, depending of gradients, curvature, etc, with I think something like four classes. It also factors in the location of DPUs so must have fairly sophisticated algorithms. Of course meeting the TrAM criteria does mean assembling the train can take more time, and a set-off may not be in the most convenient portion of the train. That will take longer, which the PSR fanatics hate and why they prefer to ignore basic physics. It ususally takes several derailments before it finally sinks in to their narrow minds that just maybe what the veterans are telling them might be correct.
Johnny
BaltACD That was only six months ago? Geez! I guess this solitary confinement has warped my sense of time! Curt Juniata Man My thought as well Balt. I recollect a string line derailment on the old bridge at Harpers Ferry a few years back where exactly that happened; the engineer started pulling before the train brakes and completed releasing. Curt It was only about 6 months ago - a train of grain empties heading from Winchester to Brunswick - started pulling before the air had released on the rear of the train and stringlined several cars from the head end into the Shenandoah River.
That was only six months ago? Geez! I guess this solitary confinement has warped my sense of time!
Juniata Man My thought as well Balt. I recollect a string line derailment on the old bridge at Harpers Ferry a few years back where exactly that happened; the engineer started pulling before the train brakes and completed releasing. Curt
McKeen carbodies seem to have been overbuilt since they have found a lot of non-railroad uses. Too bad that the mechanicals didn't work so well.
I wonder if it's still there?
The McKeen cars were certainly unique - there's no mistaking them for much of anything else.
A short line here (the Carthage and Copenhagen - 7 miles, 1906 - 1918) had one.
Flintlock76 I wonder if it's still there?
Northern Alberta had two, inherited from the Alberta & Great Waterways, who had acquired them secondhand from an American line. The other carbody was at Dunvegan Yard in northwest Edmonton. They both got scrapped decades ago. Were just rusty, empty shells by that time anyway.
One of my NAR history books has the approximate date, but I can't find it right now (being bored from self-isolation, the kat decided to attack my library last week).
NAR was an extreme example of the 'hoarder' mindset that so many railroads had. Nothing was ever thrown away, all old equipment was shoved off to the side or out back in a yard, awaiting the day when it might be needed. Or to be used as a shed to store parts salvaged from still other cars that had rotted or rusted away.
CN cleaned out and disposed of most of the former NAR yards and servicing facilities during the 1980s. Most of the old yard in Dawson Creek is now an empty field.
The A&GW acquired the McKeens to run a express passenger/vacation service from Edmonton to a new resort and hotel at Lac La Biche. This venture did not work out for a variety of reasons, notably the economic depression created by the First World War. The unreliability of the McKeens probably did not help.
https://mckeencar.com/gallery/a/alberta-and-great-waterways-railway/
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
There is something wrong in this picture:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4683006
I'm chuckling, but I suppose it's only funny to CN history geeks like myself.
CN power in what was a Soo Line town (CP is implied) is ironic.
Another BNSF derailment happened this AM on Tehachapi, this one near tunnel 7 (YT drone video here). This will take some large skyhook to clean up, as one engine is on its side. BTW the Google aerials are slightly out of date as the siding was extended toward the tunnel a few years ago.
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MikeF90Another BNSF derailment happened this AM on Tehachapi, this one near tunnel 7 (YT drone video here). This will take some large skyhook to clean up, as one engine is on its side. BTW the Google aerials are slightly out of date as the siding was extended toward the tunnel a few years ago.
Has all the characteristics of a string line derailment - double stacks with most likely empty containers on the head end and excessive trailing tonnage - either no DPU or the DPU failed and could not prevent excessive draft forces from being generated on the head end of the train.
The fourth loco almost took quite the ride by the looks of it.
From the looks of how that trailing unit came to rest, I'd suspect a very sudden and massive drag on part of the consist further back in the train -- perhaps more sudden than a typical DPU failure; if they hadn't pulled the trailing consist away from the site so quickly I'd suspect a derailment. Almost like a snapback pull spilling that last unit. Made me think of that Brazilian video where they're trying to slide part of a locomotive in the ditch and manage to pull the consist over.
Our finest years as a country. By far.
NDG . . . High Water, Bridges and Washouts. Former Kootenay Division. June 6, 1995. https://www.arema.org/files/roadmasters/1995/1995_1995-SPRING-WASHOUTS-IN-BRITISH-COLUMBIA.pdf . . . Thank You.
NDG, thanks for the link to the Middleton book. That bridge's history is also related briefly in his Landmarks on the Iron Road (if I recall that title correctly). A lot for eningeers to learn from that tragaic but ultimately successful accomplishment. We would never tolerate loss of life on that scale today. In 2017 was its centennial - not many other engineering projects have survived as long and still in service. The robber barons today would never build something like that.
NDG, thanks for the link to the Middleton book.
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_interurban/MSC_324.jpg
Merci.
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