dehusman The guy on the MMA may have bent a few rules, taken a few shortcuts, after all what will happen if you bend a few rules. After all its a little thing, its not like its going to kill 40+ people, level a town, put the railroad in bankruptcy, and put all your other co-workers out of a job.
The guy on the MMA may have bent a few rules, taken a few shortcuts, after all what will happen if you bend a few rules. After all its a little thing, its not like its going to kill 40+ people, level a town, put the railroad in bankruptcy, and put all your other co-workers out of a job.
And what woul a camera have prevented in that incident - NADA
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Correct. But it might give people information to stop the next one.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman Y'all are missing the big picture here. Nobody's trying to catch people changing clothes. Nobody's trying to catch somebody calling the manager bad names (there is no audio on the video). What the railroads are trying to figure out is why trains drive into the rear of the train ahead of them. Why a train gets a 1/4 mile past a red block. Why a crew blows by a red board and runs over a tamper. Why a crew passes an approach and accelerates. Why a crew enters the main track without authority. A very, very very small number of crews do those things, but that tiny fraction is a huge risk to themselves, their co-workers, the public, the customers and the railroad. Shoving your locomotive 15 cars deep into the train ahead is "not bending the rules". The guy on the MMA may have bent a few rules, taken a few shortcuts, after all what will happen if you bend a few rules. After all its a little thing, its not like its going to kill 40+ people, level a town, put the railroad in bankruptcy, and put all your other co-workers out of a job. " But if a rule bent just a little makes life better, what the heck? "
Y'all are missing the big picture here.
Nobody's trying to catch people changing clothes. Nobody's trying to catch somebody calling the manager bad names (there is no audio on the video).
What the railroads are trying to figure out is why trains drive into the rear of the train ahead of them. Why a train gets a 1/4 mile past a red block. Why a crew blows by a red board and runs over a tamper. Why a crew passes an approach and accelerates. Why a crew enters the main track without authority. A very, very very small number of crews do those things, but that tiny fraction is a huge risk to themselves, their co-workers, the public, the customers and the railroad.
Shoving your locomotive 15 cars deep into the train ahead is "not bending the rules".
" But if a rule bent just a little makes life better, what the heck? "
Talk about missing the big picture.
In cab cameras would not be able to tell how many hand brakes are applied to a train parked at the top of a hill.....
An "expensive model collector"
schlimmA whole lot of people in a wide variety of jobs have management looking over their shoulders and abusing their power for their own gain. What makes you think you folks are so special you should be immune to that, especially when safety is on the line?
Right. Let's race to the bottom, professor.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
n012944 Talk about missing the big picture. In cab cameras would not be able to tell how many hand brakes are applied to a train parked at the top of a hill.....
The answer is to put the cameras in, then demonstrate to the workforce that they will not be used for witch hunts.
That requires a long term commitment by all levels of management to use the cameras only as an investigative tool.
If they want to "weed weasel," let them hide in the weeds.
If they discover a problem through "routine" monitoring (like a sleep issue), great. If they can figure out why a crew ran a signal, fantastic.
Inappropriate behaviors should result in non-punitive counselling ("don't do that again!"), at least for a first offense, and upper levels of management should be monitoring said actions, to ensure that they don't have a witch hunter of a supervisor.
But the first time a crew gets seriously dinged on some BS "misdeed," (and I'm not talking a safety issue here), the trust will drop to zero.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Alright, I believe its time for me to weigh in again. Someone brought up that the cameras would only be used only in situations where an incident has occured. Well I can say that where I work at, when they installed cameras all throughout the yard it was promised that they were for security only, and that faded away when they quickly started using them to spy on employee's and fire them. That's not security usage. I'm not defending the employee but just stating that by spying on them is not what was promised for.
As for something to hide, there are the good employees and the bad ones, but I don't want someone looking over my own shoulder. I do my best when I get my orders and I'm left alone to get the job done.
As I have stated before, that engine cab is our spot of privacy in the field. Its where we run the train, handle business, eat food, and sometimes even have to change clothes. How would someone like a camera in the locker room in their gym for example only to be viewed under the terms of an "incident"?
There are already microphones on engines now also.
Just more food for thought.
What a camera is going to tell you is what you already know. There is boredom in the cab alone. There are things that may distract one. Sleep, fatigue, time changes, shift changes, out of turn calls, long layovers or no calls, etc. all cause problems. A camera isn't going to tell you anything more. So act on what you know are the problems, history has already done your research now propose a real solution and not just take pictures of what you already know. The is an exercise in self flagellation to show the world you are doing something even if it is just marching in place by flapping your mouths.
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dehusman n012944 Talk about missing the big picture. In cab cameras would not be able to tell how many hand brakes are applied to a train parked at the top of a hill..... Correct. But they can determine that from examining the burned wreckage at the bottom of the hill. The root cause is WHY the proper number of hand brakes weren't set, WAS the proper brake test done? The video would have shown what the engineer did in the cab, did he test the handbrakes, how long was he out of the cab setting handbrakes. Calling the manager a bad name doesn't jeopardize the railroad, (and the thousands of people that work for it) running a red block and ramming into an oncoming train does. 99.9999% of the time railroad employees do the right thing. Are you willing to let the .00001% who don't risk your life or job? The bottom line is for everybody to get home safe.
The down load would tell if the proper release test was made after the hand brakes were set. Down loads have in the past have caught the failure to do proper brake tests (all kinds, not just securement tests) and discipline was given because of the tape. Not just post accident reviews either, some from random reviews.
As far as handling of the train: speed, blowing the horn, etc, all that is already available (some in real time depending on the engine) through the event recorder. And at times those down loads have exonerated an engineer, for example when the engineer did everything right but experienced a break in two.
It has also happened at other times that an electronic record (event recorder, taped phone or radio conversation) wasn't available because either the device failed to work or the retrieved tape was "lost."
Jeff
jeffhergert dehusman n012944 Talk about missing the big picture. In cab cameras would not be able to tell how many hand brakes are applied to a train parked at the top of a hill..... Correct. But they can determine that from examining the burned wreckage at the bottom of the hill. The root cause is WHY the proper number of hand brakes weren't set, WAS the proper brake test done? The video would have shown what the engineer did in the cab, did he test the handbrakes, how long was he out of the cab setting handbrakes. Calling the manager a bad name doesn't jeopardize the railroad, (and the thousands of people that work for it) running a red block and ramming into an oncoming train does. 99.9999% of the time railroad employees do the right thing. Are you willing to let the .00001% who don't risk your life or job? The bottom line is for everybody to get home safe. The down load would tell if the proper release test was made after the hand brakes were set. Down loads have in the past have caught the failure to do proper brake tests (all kinds, not just securement tests) and discipline was given because of the tape. Not just post accident reviews either, some from random reviews. As far as handling of the train: speed, blowing the horn, etc, all that is already available (some in real time depending on the engine) through the event recorder. And at times those down loads have exonerated an engineer, for example when the engineer did everything right but experienced a break in two. It has also happened at other times that an electronic record (event recorder, taped phone or radio conversation) wasn't available because either the device failed to work or the retrieved tape was "lost." Jeff
A camera is not needed for a download to tell if a brake application has or has not been made or that a signal aspect has been recognized (unless you require the engineer to give the three ring sign which could mean OK or that he drank three bottles of Ballentine before boarding. Or are you suggesting that there should be back up programs to back up programs which are already back up programs to back up programs. Am I getting silly? No. Just showing how silly we get when we want to look like we are doing something about something and when we want to do it so as to point blame instead of implementing real programs of relief and solution.
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