Railroad Management will actually get involved?

[edblysard]

They made movies about both of those already!

[narig01]

One of the things I read about with coal shipments is that a metal detector is run over the coal as it is being unloaded and again before it is fed into either the boiler or furnace. They do find strange things on occasion. The one I read about they found a 7' I beam.
With timber before the logs are fed thru a band saw they also use a metal detector on account of earth firsters implanting metal spikes in trees.

Rgds IGN

[narig01]

Also on the Canterra loop derailment the chemical was "not a regulated material ". Unfortunately that covers a lot of ground. One of the things that changed after that accident and release was a new category of hazardous classification. "Marine Pollutant" .
I found a lot of agricultural chemicals are in the category of being "not a regulated chemical". In spite of the rating I would always get the trailer I was hauling this in cleaned out before the next cargo.
My impression of this area is sometimes it could be a real grey area. And at times it was on account of the fact that EPA just had not gotten around to testing the material.

Rgds IGN

[narig01]

The last comment I'll make is this. Most of the regulations are designed to do one thing,
communicate the risk. It tells the transporters (railroads, truck co, barge, ocean ship, airlines) what kind of risk is involved and how it should be packaged and transported. It also tells first responders what they are dealing with in case of an incident.
Incident refers to the many things that can happen. Best example I will cite was this : A tank truck has a brake or axle fire. If you see milk beadvertised on the side of the vehicle your not going to be to concerned. But if you see a flammable placard UN 3065 on this trailer it will change your precautions a little. Next you might wonder what a hazardous material might be doing in a milk tanker. UN 3065 is the UN number for flammable alcoholic beverages. In that case a tank truck load of Kentucky Bourbon. Good stuff to and it would have been a real waste to let it burn. In addition it told the fire dept that it was relatively safe to fight the fire. Not putting the fire out would have been a bigger problem.

Other times I have seen fire departments walk away from a burning vehicle and let it burn because they did not have the equipment to safely fight the fire.

Rgds IGN

[blownout cylinder]

edblysard

They made movies about both of those already!

probably inspired from "The Colour From Outer Space" by H.P.Lovecraft no doubt....

[carnej1]

blownout cylinder

edblysard

They made movies about both of those already!

probably inspired from "The Colour From Outer Space" by H.P.Lovecraft no doubt....

I think the reference was to "The Andromeda Strain", adapted from a Michael Crichton novel. One of the "chapters" in the Movie "Stephen King's Creepshow" is losely based on the Lovecraft story, it's the one starring King Himself...

and now, back to railroading..

 

[Falcon48]

AgentKid

I can't remember the specific names, but railways in both Canada and the US are governed by specific acts of their federal governments as to the nature and safe handling of dangerous products. These acts are based solely on scientific properties, not on any moral issues that may surround the products. In the US the act is similar to the act that also deals with the Post Office. Or maybe it is the same one. I recall from the news that act being modified after 9/11.

Bruce

  In the U.S., the relevant statute is called the "Hazardous Materials Transportation Act".  The U.S. Department of Transprtation has extensive regulations implementing the Act, which specify how particular hazardous commodities are to be shipped.  In some cases, ceertain hazardous commodities are prohibited in various modes of transport.  The most rigorous restrictions, as you might expect, are for air transport.  But there are a good number of commodities that are prohibited in truck or rail transport.

The DOT haz mat regulations don't themselves require a carrier to handle anything.  But, for railroads, there is such a requirement in the so called "common carrier obligation" of the Interstate Commerce Act.  Bascially, the position of the ICC and the STB has been that, unless DOT haz mat rules prohibit a shipment, railroads must handle haz mat shipments that comply with haz mat rules.  As one of the other posts on this thread notes, various railroads have tried to refuse particularly hazardous commodities, but they have been shot down by ICC or STB.  I believe there is a recent case (within the last couple of years) where the STB came out with such a decision against Union Pacific.

 

[narig01]

One cargo that was causing a lot of debate Radioactive Waste. In particular spent uranium fuel rods. Part of the debate was how to get the material to Nevada. By truck or rail. UP was having trouble finding insurance to cover the railroad in case of a disaster.
When you have a situation that could literally destroy a company financially you hedge your risks. Failure to do so is the sort of thing that causes company management to be sacked. One of the problems with Yucca Mountain IIRC was DOE not only wanted UP to haul the stuff they also wanted UP to assume the liability in case of a wreck on the railroad.
One of the realities of transport companies is that an accident or incident if severe enough can put an operation out of business. Look at say Pan Am & Lockerbie, Scotland or Eastern Airlines & the crash outside Miami in the everglades or Valujet & Florida or TMERL & the railfan excursion in Milwaukee (if your old enough to remember) or in 1918 the Malbone St wreck on the Brooklyn Rapid Transit. Wheeling and Lake Erie.
The list is long. Liability is something that causes no end of headaches for every corporate manager.
Rgds IGN

[jeffhergert]

Five pages about hazardous or dangerous materials railroads handle, and from a follow up post on a previous page it seems the OP is talking about High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Jeff 

[Lake]

jeffhergert

Five pages about hazardous or dangerous materials railroads handle, and from a follow up post on a previous page it seems the OP is talking about High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Jeff 

That or Gojira eggs.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4537088553780293&pid=15.1&w=169&h=126&p=0

[schlimm]

Five pages and 69 comments about a teaser post .  Mr. Falconer must have thoroughly enjoyed the circus.

[jeffhergert]

schlimm

Five pages and 69 comments about a teaser post .  Mr. Falconer must have thoroughly enjoyed the circus.

Or he is part of the anti-HFCS crowd.  I don't know about the OP, but some who buy into a cause against something will go to great lengths to show something is evil.

Jeff

[schlimm]

jeffhergert

schlimm

Five pages and 69 comments about a teaser post .  Mr. Falconer must have thoroughly enjoyed the circus.

Or he is part of the anti-HFCS crowd.  I don't know about the OP, but some who buy into a cause against something will go to great lengths to show something is evil.

Jeff

Not sure about that.  His descriptions of contamination through heavy metals sounds more like an anti-Led Zeppelin dude.

But seriously, if he were having a legit concern, turning it into a guessing game with the forum members getting jerked around doesn't sound like someone who is a serious critic.

[Deggesty]

Is he concerned about heavy metals in high fructose corn syrup? We have some arsenic in our drinking water here, and the providers of the drinking water tell us that it is there, along with certain other undesirable substances, giving us the detected concentrations--which are all below what are considered to be dangerous levels.

Certainly, if he is serious, he should be sharing his concern with the people in charge of CFR 49.

[zugmann]

All the railcars are made of metal (and are pretty heavy).

Maybe just put placards on everything?   Good luck finding idlers, though.

[BroadwayLion]

Heaven forbid that a train should carry Dihydrogen Monoxide

[Norm48327]

BroadwayLion

Heaven forbid that a train should carry Dihydrogen Monoxide

Amazing how many people want to ban it.

[Deggesty]

BroadwayLion

Heaven forbid that a train should carry Dihydrogen Monoxide

How about hydrooxic acid or hydrogen hydroxide?

[Murphy Siding]

schlimm

jeffhergert

schlimm

Five pages and 69 comments about a teaser post .  Mr. Falconer must have thoroughly enjoyed the circus.

Or he is part of the anti-HFCS crowd.  I don't know about the OP, but some who buy into a cause against something will go to great lengths to show something is evil.

Jeff

Not sure about that.  His descriptions of contamination through heavy metals sounds more like an anti-Led Zeppelin dude.

But seriously, if he were having a legit concern, turning it into a guessing game with the forum members getting jerked around doesn't sound like someone who is a serious critic.

    I was reading without paying attention, and had to go back and re-read that paragraph before I caught on.

[Bonas]

This is a dumb post as to the original question. Do customers ship one thing in a boxcar under a STCC code when they are really shipping something else to get a cheaper rate? Do customers mislable hazmat sure I suppose but more from error then anything else.

[sandyhookken]

For those who are unaware of the hazards of Dihydrogen Monoxide, I suggest checking http://www.dhmo.org.

 

[Deggesty]

Yes, companies have been known to ship hazardous materials without marking them hazardous because of ignorance of the regulations.

[Deggesty]

sandyhookken

For those who are unaware of the hazards of Dihydrogen Monoxide, I suggest checking http://www.dhmo.org.

 

It is also the universal solvent.

[Murphy Siding]

Bonas

This is a dumb post as to the original question. Do customers ship one thing in a boxcar under a STCC code when they are really shipping something else to get a cheaper rate? Do customers mislable hazmat sure I suppose but more from error then anything else.

  Well, I suppose this could happen.  Like when a railroad picks up a boxcar from the Spent Plutonium Disposal Company, and all the cardboard boxes in the boxcar are labeled  *North Dakota peaches*.   But that's to suggest that the railroad folks are not to bright, and I don't think that's the case.

[schlimm]

Murphy Siding

schlimm

jeffhergert

schlimm

Five pages and 69 comments about a teaser post .  Mr. Falconer must have thoroughly enjoyed the circus.

Or he is part of the anti-HFCS crowd.  I don't know about the OP, but some who buy into a cause against something will go to great lengths to show something is evil.

Jeff

Not sure about that.  His descriptions of contamination through heavy metals sounds more like an anti-Led Zeppelin dude.

But seriously, if he were having a legit concern, turning it into a guessing game with the forum members getting jerked around doesn't sound like someone who is a serious critic.

    I was reading without paying attention, and had to go back and re-read that paragraph before I caught on.

It was too subtle, or simply a dud.

[edblysard]

OMG!

Then no one mention should mention MSG.

[BroadwayLion]

edblysard

OMG!

Then no one mention should mention MSG.

What is wrong with Madison Square Garden?

Besides that it is not on Madison, is not square, and there is not garden.

AND THAT THEY STOLE NY PENN STATION TO BUILD THAT 55 YEAR OLD EYESORE!

ROAR

[edblysard]

They turned ours into a baseball park!