Have they missed how valuable GP38-2's and the like are in 2012 on Class 1's? If anything, 4 axle road switchers seemed to have gained back some of their importance in recent years on Class 1's. Even GP40's, GP38's and the like seem to be valuable locomotives these days (There was a time, even 25 years ago, when it wasn't uncommon for the fate of such a unit to be scrap, now they're attractive cores for rebuilding projects).
And did the author forget about EMD's GP22Eco? EMD's rebuild program doesn't even get a mention despite steadily gaining momentum and representing EMD's future in this locomotive category. Nor does it mention that Canadian Pacific just placed a order for dozens of what is essentially a brand new EMD Geep, the first new units produced since the GP60 left production (Ignoring those things that were marketed as GP15's and GP20's a few years ago with Cat engines in them). Seems like an awfully important thing to not even mention (although there's a small news piece about it on the following page outside of this specific article).
These GP22Eco's won't even be reusing the frames of the Geep trade-ins they're sending in. They're for all intents and purposes brand new EMD Geeps in 2012, just reusing the truck frames from the trade-ins and little else (Just enough to qualify as a "rebuild" for tax purposes., much like many E9's, GP30's, and the like were technically considered rebuilds of earlier locomotives like F3's and E7's).
Not very impressed with the article. It doesn't really mention anything that the average Trains reader isn't already well aware of nor does it do a very good job of discussing the current state of 4 axle power on major railroads today. It seems like it was all fluff with very little insight. Where's the mention about passenger power, for instance? That's still the domain of 4 axle power after a brief fling with cowled versions of EMD and GE 6 axle freight power decades ago. Seems like it's worthy of a few sentences at least. Also no mention about the semi resurgence of switchers, which are also 4 axle locomotives (thanks to Gensets, rebuilds of existing switchers to lower emissions, Green Goats, battery powered locomotives like the one NS turned out, and the like)?
I even question the importance the article has placed on radial trucks. I'm not keeping a tally so I'm not quite sure where the statistics stand, but it's my understanding that they've seemed to have been a mixed success after roads had a few years under their belts with them. More than a few orders have reverted to conventional trucks in recent years. Kansas City Southern is one such example that has specified conventional trucks in recent years, in this case on some (All?) SD70Ace's slated for US service.
This is usually my favorite section of the magazine, but I don't care for these overview pieces that usually incorporate a few bits of information from EMD insiders like Preston Cook and Jack Wheelihan. Like the article title for the second part of the Locomotive section this month, it's a paint by number effort. See the March 2001 Power Desk for an example of the type of article I'd rather see filling the section dedicated to locomotives.
The four-axle era as it applies to mainline through freights is pretty much over. The GP22ECO, by its smaller size, is oriented to yard/transfer/local freight service and really hasn't spread beyond CP and some sampling by KCS. Most GP38's and GP40's can be found in similar secondary service, playing out the string prior to scrapping. Many GP40's and GP50's are being de-rated to make them better suited for local freights. Switchers have always been primarily four-axle locomotives, but they rarely get beyond yard limits. Passenger power is a niche market that EMD and GE, for the most part, have ignored.
Do A1A and B1-1B configurations count as for axle? They are certainly 4 powered axle locomotives.
Does the story at least mention the heady days of the late 1980s, when certain folks at BN and Santa Fe thought 4-axle power was going to be the new way to go with intermodal? I'm talking rebuilt GP50s coupled to fuel tenders, leased LMX B39-8s, Super Fleet GP60Ms and Dash 8-40BWs.
The thinking in the 1980s (and before) was that the four axle diesel electric offered an increased ability to match the horsepower to the train. But that might have been a need linked to loose car railroading, and increasingly the train does not vary much in its needs.
When I think of those special, and especially fast, piggyback trains of the 80s I think of four axle engines.
Dave Nelson
I think your thinking is off track here, Leo. Dave Lustig is very emphatic that he is talking new builds of power and is specific about the reasons. He also explains very well the place of four axel power in the market place explaining the ample numbers of available units which are rebuilt/used.
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Did'nt BNSF or was it UP buy some GP38's not to long ago? Seems that they are going to be around for a long time.
gsrrman Did'nt BNSF or was it UP buy some GP38's not to long ago? Seems that they are going to be around for a long time.
BNSF and UP both have a fair amount of secondhand GP38's either directly owned or on long-term lease. They also have rebuilt and derated GP35/40's. The point of the article was that new 4-axle power isn't going to be found on the point of premium freight trains anymore. The role of four-axle power will be in secondary roles: yard, transfer, local freight, etc.
henry6I think your thinking is off track here, Leo. Dave Lustig is very emphatic that he is talking new builds of power and is specific about the reasons. He also explains very well the place of four axel power in the market place explaining the ample numbers of available units which are rebuilt/used.
Perhaps my interpretation was off and he specifically was just discussing the possibilities of new builds in the marketplace and wasn't intending to take a broad look at the state of 4 axle power in today's industry. But I think many of my criticisms apply even if he was just discussing new builds and why 6 axle power has had a near monopoly on the industry over the past 20 years. Even if he was specifically discussing new builds of 4 axle power for mainline freight runs, of which the article isn't clear that was his intention, it still seems like some important exceptions were worthy of mentioning.
After the SDP35's and the like of the 1960's and cowled passenger conversions of freight power slightly later on, new purchases of passenger power has been nearly the exclusive domain of 4 axle power since the covered wagon era concluded in the early 1960's. This wasn't mentioned at all even though it's an important exception to the rule about the types of locomotives being purchased in North America in recent years.
The same goes for EMD's Eco program (Which is seeing 99% new 4 axle EMD freight power being constructed right now thanks to CPR with plans of several hundred purchases in the next few years) and the scores of modern switchers being constructed to fill niches in today's industry (The vast majority being 4 axle power). Both seem like important omissions in a article that you state was discussing new builds of 4 axle power in recent years.
David Lustig is a fine author and I've enjoyed his work in this magazine for many years. But I really haven't cared for some of these recent pieces. No matter which, if any, of my specific criticisms about this specific subject are deemed valid by those that read my post, there's still just not enough meat on the bone in some of these things lately. A good 50% of them just leave an empty feeling after reading them.
That's basically my concern and the point I was trying to make (I didn't start this thread to nitpick about 4 axle locomotives and what should or shouldn't of been mentioned... I was attempting to use this latest article as an illustration of my underlying criticisms). The content is often just plain uninteresting in this section about every other month now, especially with these overview pieces that we've been regularly getting lately about various subjects. That's something this section of the magazine never used to be like in the past with authors like Greg McDonnell, Peer Schneider (That piece about surviving high high Alco's on Relco for the 100th anniversary Alco issue stands out as fine work), and David Lustig himself after taking over the reigns of this section several years ago (I have to reiterate that I'm a fan of his work, it's the style of some of these recent pieces for the locomotive section that I don't like, not his journalism)..
I plain don't care for dedication of so many pages every month to specific departments (Locomotive, Technology, Passenger, et al). It just stands to reason that there isn't always something compelling for one or more of these every month, resulting in thin gruel. Of course, this approach relieves pressure on the rest of the editorial content by eating up space, which is why the bosses may like it. (I worked for a daily newspaper for 20 years, and know how their beady little minds work.)
If it were up to me, more space would be devoted to letters, as in the old days. Trains has always had high-grade readers, with many interesting things to say.
dakotafred If it were up to me, more space would be devoted to letters, as in the old days. Trains has always had high-grade readers, with many interesting things to say.
That's why they got us!
I know on the UP line that goes through Abilene, TX (UP's El Paso-Ft. Worth Line) six axles are almost exclusive to thru freights. GP38/40/50/60's are exclusively for locals. Many times there are two pairs in the Abilene area, another set or two in Big Spring (1.5 hrs west) and another set or two in Odessa (2.5 hrs west). Most thru freights also have distributed power (six axle power of course).
The gist of what Dave Lustig wrote was about the design and manufacture of new locomotives being in the six axel catagory; that there are plenty of four axel units from all past generations avaialbe as is or with modifications so that manufacture can and should center on six axel locomotives. His article was not about operations, the wheres and whys of four or six axel power, beyond assignedl usage of the power. There are, and will continue to be, thousand of four axel units in service for the service they are suited and designed for. Big train operators with intermodal, stack, unit mineral, etc. want six alex power for long hauls. That is what the article was about.
I thought it was a good article... writers have limited space available so detail, necessarily, is limited to space available. I don't think the four axle is dead...there's just no demand for new 4 axle models currently. With GP9s at 60 years old and still running and plenty of mid horsepower GP's still in circulation there probably won't be much demand for new locomotives for the forseeable future.
No demand, except for in passenger locomotives.
Yes BNSF acquired a small number of GP38-3 from NRE, but at the same time they dumped 70+ ex- AT&SF GP30s and all 40 GP39V (GP35 rebuilds) so there was a significant net decrease in 4-axle power. They have also sold some of the ex-CR plain GP38s that BN had bought and plain GP38s ex-AT&SF.
Didn't they trade GP15-1's and 645 engined switchers for those NRE GP38-3's? I'm pretty sure they traded in more 4 axle power on that deal than they got back.
I knew they got rid of the Santa Fe GP30 rebuilds (I forget the reasons but heard what it was at the time, although the Santa Fe GP35's seem to have been targets for rebuilding in recent years). But that's the first I've heard of them losing their VMV rebuilt GP35's. Any idea on why they got rid of them? Leases come to an end with the pricetag to renew or buy just too high? They should be pretty much identical to the rebuild job done by EMD and MK at the time and those still seem to be going strong.
Geeps are good for branchline operations where the big SD's might reek a little havoc on the track, they're good switchers in yards and such but can't compete with what's been developed over the past couple decades. The days of 4 and 5 unit Geep consists are over, now 2 of the big boys can handle it(in most cases)
And, of course, four-axle power will continue for commuter and other passenger uses.
Georgia Railroader Geeps are good for branchline operations where the big SD's might reek a little havoc on the track, they're good switchers in yards and such but can't compete with what's been developed over the past couple decades. The days of 4 and 5 unit Geep consists are over, now 2 of the big boys can handle it(in most cases)
Yes, it has been awhile since I saw one of those 5 unit lashups... CP used to run some interesting ones back in the 70s...RS-18s, Chessie Gp30s and 35's and M630s all thrown in. Towards the end of CP's operation of the Shortline through Maine they had incredible lashups...5 or more MLW six motors with the odd four motor thrown in Back in 79 my brother and I got a tour of one of Canada's only two GP30s... when we asked the engineer for permission to enter the cab he said "sure but don't touch anything"..those were the days..
I'm not sure if it just the Locomotives section, or more of the "Departments" at the front of the magazine, but I have to agree that in recent months some of the items have been rather thin on "news that I can use".
I wonder if they are placing too much reliance on the website, and this new "digital magazine" product they are advertising.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
BNSF did NOT get rid of ALL of the GP39V/M/Es there are still many of them running around the system. My understanding though is that they've all been renamed in the computer as GP39-2.
I don't think anyone ever said that they've gotten rid of all of their Geep rebuilds. People were specifically discussing the VMV rebuilds of GP35's which were designated GP39V's.
They indeed appear to have all been eliminated from the roster, unlike their EMD and MK sisters. My money is on them having a different lease agreement that was unattractive when it concluded to reup or outright purchase, rather than any technical inferiority to the other rebuilds leading to their demise.
I bet that's also why none of them ever saw repainting in recent years (At least I never saw any repaints, they seemed to carry their BN colors to the end) compared to several repainted GP39E's and M's painted in BNSF colors.
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