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Will BNSF and CSX ever make Heritage Units?

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Posted by GP40-2 on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:12 AM
DavidBriel

I would say that the CSX YN2 paint scheme is based on the L&N Gray and Yellow scheme with Blue added.

The current CSX paint scheme is a combo of the traditional C&O scheme, along with the traditional B&O Blue/Gray. Trust me, the C&O/B&O management created CSX for their benefit. Chessie's Chairman Hays Watkins (who was a real railroader, unlike some of the bean counters that ran CSX after he retired) called all the shots on CSX from the get go.
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Posted by garr on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:43 PM

JayPotter

There's an incident related to this paint scheme that gives some insight into the issue of whether or not CSXT appreciates its heritage.

In 1992, CSXT decided to name a locomotive for Grafton, West Virginia to recognize the 150th anniversary of B&O's arrival at the location that later became Grafton.  The logical locomotive to be named was unit 500, one of the railroad's "heavy" AC4400CWs, because those locomotives operated regularly through Grafton and were referred to as "500s".  However after 500 had been built, in April 2001, the railroad introduced its new paint scheme; and it did not want to name a locomotive that was in an outdated paint scheme.  Fortunately, it was taking delivery of additional "heavy" AC4400CWs that were in the new paint scheme; and so it decided to name one of those units for Grafton.  But then it realized that the new AC4400CWs were equipped with cab signals; and because Grafton was not in cab-signal territory, if a new unit were named for Grafton, people in Grafton would seldom, if ever, get to see the locomotive that was named for their city.  So CSXT sent unit 500 to the paint shop, removed all of its 14-month-old paint, repainted it into the new paint scheme, and stenciled it as "Spirit of Grafton".  It would have been much easier and less expensive for CSXT simply to have stenciled a new unit; but it was important to CSXT that people in Grafton see a lot of the locomotive that carries their city's name.

 

 

Jay,

Interesting story. 

Always enjoy seeing your work in the magazines.

Jay

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Posted by mattthetrainfandude on Friday, January 19, 2018 9:14 PM

CSX and BNSF surely should do heritage units especially the GE CSX heritage units and BNSF should do heritage units too especially a Burlington Northern painted SD70Ace heritage unit

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Posted by BLS53 on Saturday, January 27, 2018 11:15 PM

My beef with BNSF, is that their current livery bears little resemblance to any of it's predecessors. UP, CSX, NS, all look similar to what the parent roads were 50 years ago.

I'm partial to the red/grey scheme the CB&Q used on it's freight units. Given the role red played with both CB&Q and SF, it's interesting it's nowhere to be found today.

BNSF has always had more GN, NP influence in color schemes, than the other roads in the family tree in my opinion. Being at the southern end of CB&Q territory, where GN and NP never roamed, this has never appealed to me.

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Posted by PennsyBoomer on Sunday, January 28, 2018 1:47 AM

From a purely bottom line viewpoint, I doubt if heritage schemes make much difference. And then there is the unquantifiable. It is both an image and vitality matter. As one poster has said, what is the point of UP's steam program? It indicates continuity and dependability over time. BNSF has inclined toward the heritage movement in its covered hopper roadnames, at least.

True, a paint scheme matters nothing if service falters; however, aesthetics may have a longer if less obvious resonance. When we forget where we came from, we lose track of where we are. I don't think there is much to shy away from insofar as RR history given the extent of subsidized competition, and by and large it is an aggressive and well-maintained industry - that can afford to acknowledge its roots. So bless those roads that so acknowledge.          

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Posted by mattthetrainfandude on Sunday, January 28, 2018 8:28 PM
I think YES BNSF and CSX should do heritage units too just like UP & NS did and have UP do even more heritage units
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Posted by azrail on Monday, January 29, 2018 1:51 PM

mattthetrainfandude

CSX and BNSF surely should do heritage units especially the GE CSX heritage units and BNSF should do heritage units too especially a Burlington Northern painted SD70Ace heritage unit

 

There are still a number of "heritage units" today on the BNSF, still painted in original BN and SF colors. 

The problem with BNSF heritage repaints is, which liveries do you paint the heritage engines? SF had 5 different paint schemes on its diesels, CB&Q had 4, GN had 2, Frisco had 3.

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Posted by mattthetrainfandude on Monday, January 29, 2018 4:05 PM

But what do you mean CSX and BNSF should do heritage units especially the BNSF heritage units and i've got the problem solved through photo graph BNSF SD70Ace 8579 & ES44DC 7300 could wear the red and silver BNSF heritage paint scheme as shown below while BNSF SD70ACE #8570 could wear the burlington northern paint scheme as shown in the August Van Cleave painting below while SD70ACE diesel locomotives numbers 8571,8572,ES44AC diesel locomotives 8375 & 4259,GEVO 6440 could wear the yellow bonnett freight paint scheme and SD70ACe #8583 could wear a different blue and yellow freight paint scheme,the  BNSF GEVO 6443 and SD70ACe diesel locomotives numbers 8573 & 8574 could wear the orange and brown and sky blue and white great northern paint schemes and the other SD70Ace diesel locomotives and GEVO diesel could wear the other  Image may contain: one or more peopleNo automatic alt text available.BNSF & CSX heritage paint schemes as shown in the photos below Image may contain: outdoor

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, January 29, 2018 5:21 PM

CSX has shown in the past their distaste for things historical.  While the cost of repainting a unit is a historic scheme would not be much greater than their normal blue and gray, I suspect they just don't care.

Barring a change in management to one that favors such actions, I wouldn't hold my breath.

That said - there have been two approaches to the concept so far.  NS nearly exactly duplicated the paint schemes of their predecessors on their heritage units, while UP got "arty," with variations that only suggested the railroads in question.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 29, 2018 6:17 PM

tree68
CSX has shown in the past their distaste for things historical.  While the cost of repainting a unit is a historic scheme would not be much greater than their normal blue and gray, I suspect they just don't care.

Barring a change in management to one that favors such actions, I wouldn't hold my breath.

That said - there have been two approaches to the concept so far.  NS nearly exactly duplicated the paint schemes of their predecessors on their heritage units, while UP got "arty," with variations that only suggested the railroads in question.

Au Contraire - CSX has placed heritage emblems on various locomotives as they dip their toe into Heritage Units.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, January 29, 2018 7:28 PM

BaltACD
Au Contraire - CSX has placed heritage emblems on various locomotives as they dip their toe into Heritage Units.

Haven't seen them or heard of them.  That's a good thing.  Maybe the hard line is softening a bit.

Not the same as painting an entire unit as C&O or maybe PM, though.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 29, 2018 7:43 PM

tree68

 BaltACD

Au Contraire - CSX has placed heritage emblems on various locomotives as they dip their toe into Heritage Units. 

 

Haven't seen them or heard of them.  That's a good thing.  Maybe the hard line is softening a bit.

 

Not the same as painting an entire unit as C&O or maybe PM, though.

CSX Heritage Locomotives

256 . . . . . CW44AC . . . . . YN3b - Seaboard Coast Line
323 . . . . . CW44AC . . . . . YN3b - Louisville & Nashville
366 . . . . . CW44AC . . . . . YN3b - Chessie System
616 . . . . . CW46AC . . . . . YN3b - Seaboard Airline R.R.
3010 . . .  . ES44AH . . . . . YN3b - Gainesville Midland
4384 . . .  . SD40-3 . . . . . YN3b - Clinchfield
5327 . . .  . ES40DC . . . . . YN3b - Western Maryland
5461 . . .  . ES40DC . . . . . YN3b - Seaboard System
7332 . . .  . CW40-8 . . . . . YN3b - SBD System (Retired 2017)
7376 . . .  . CW40-8 . . . . . YN3b - C&O (Retired 2017)
7670 . . .  . CW40-8 . . . . . YN3b - Monon
7889 . . .  . CW40-8 . . . . . YN3b - Atlantic Coast Line 

'Heritage' locomotives appear in the current YN3b CSX Railcar Logo paint scheme, but with the addition of the herald of the predecessor railroad being honored on the side of the front nose of the locomotive.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, January 29, 2018 8:54 PM

I'll stand by what I said.  To me a "heritage unit" is one painted to replicate the original.  Putting a sticker on one side of the nose doesn't come close.  

LarryWhistling
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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, January 29, 2018 8:58 PM

It would be nice to see Matt Rose channel Wick Moorman.

Have BNSF heritage units in all of the different predecessor paint schemes mentioned above.

Maybe for a 30th anniversary of the BN-ATSF merger or such.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 29, 2018 9:00 PM

tree68
I'll stand by what I said.  To me a "heritage unit" is one painted to replicate the original.  Putting a sticker on one side of the nose doesn't come close.  

In principle I don't disagree, but even making the emblems on CSX was a big concession.

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Posted by jfreelan1964 on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:00 PM

Lets go the hypothetical route for a couple seconds.

Both haven't said they will or won't do heritage units.

Assuming that the did.  Where would they do a round up for a museum fund raiser like NS did for the Spencer, NC transportation museum?  To me that was the cats meow of showing off your railroad.  It is unfortunate that most managements in any company don't have the sense of history that Wic Moorman had when he ran NS. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:20 PM

BNSF could probably do one at the Illinois Railroad Museum or maybe Chicago Union Depot, the Museum Of the American Railroad in Frisco, TX, or even St Paul Union Depot (SPUD) in St Paul, MN to benefit several Minnesota entities such as the Minnesota Transportation Museum, the Lake Superior Transportation Museum in Duluth, and MILW 4-8-4 261 based in Minneapolis. At that one they could even run some short steam excursions between SPUD and Minneapolis Junction.

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Posted by SFbrkmn on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:57 PM

BNSF in truth actually has such units. Many former SF and BN units are still out there in full drab, although lettered and numbered for the combined rr. While these are slowly being painted into green & orange, it is an amazing fact that a generation following the merger, one can still get a glimsp of the pre merger painted units in the old colors still roaming around 

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Posted by mattthetrainfandude on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 10:45 PM

But BNSF has gotta do fully painted heritage units and here are the heritage units that BNSF should do just to pay homage to especially the fallen flags of Burlington Northern and Santa Fe and many more all as shown in the photos below 

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