yeah except part of restricted speed is operating your train in such a manner that you can stop and within half the range of vision, short of TERMS D. it does not mention anything about 3 car lengths. i would hope no railroader especially a engineer would use the excuse that they couldn't see the banner for more than 150 feet. it's supposed to simulate a real world situation and failure is a very big deal.
tree68 Without being able to read the FRA's mind, I have to guess, but... I would suppose the rule is to prevent a banner from being placed where it would be impossible for the engineer to respond in time - think of that stop sign that's hidden behind trees until you're right at the intersection.
Without being able to read the FRA's mind, I have to guess, but...
I would suppose the rule is to prevent a banner from being placed where it would be impossible for the engineer to respond in time - think of that stop sign that's hidden behind trees until you're right at the intersection.
Paul of Covington Lithonia Operator mackb4 A banner according to the FRA,must be visible within three (3) car lengths of the Engineers vantage point. What does this mean? The banner must be big/bright enough to be seen three car-lengths ahead of the engineer? So in long-hood-forward mode, that's two lengths ahead of the loco. One is supposed to stop a 15-mph train in two car lengths??!! What am I missing? Good luck, L.O. I was wondering about that, too. It seems absurdly close. And by the way, he must be able to stop the train in half the distance so he's got to stop in one car length in your example running long hood forwaed.
Lithonia Operator mackb4 A banner according to the FRA,must be visible within three (3) car lengths of the Engineers vantage point. What does this mean? The banner must be big/bright enough to be seen three car-lengths ahead of the engineer? So in long-hood-forward mode, that's two lengths ahead of the loco. One is supposed to stop a 15-mph train in two car lengths??!! What am I missing?
mackb4 A banner according to the FRA,must be visible within three (3) car lengths of the Engineers vantage point.
What does this mean? The banner must be big/bright enough to be seen three car-lengths ahead of the engineer? So in long-hood-forward mode, that's two lengths ahead of the loco.
One is supposed to stop a 15-mph train in two car lengths??!!
What am I missing?
Good luck, L.O. I was wondering about that, too. It seems absurdly close. And by the way, he must be able to stop the train in half the distance so he's got to stop in one car length in your example running long hood forwaed.
Exactly. One car length.
Say this is train of 100 empty hoppers with two six-axle units. Even at 5 mph, I wouldn't have thought you could safely stop that train in one car length.
GBSD70ACeyeah except part of restricted speed is operating your train in such a manner that you can stop and within half the range of vision, short of TERMS D. it does not mention anything about 3 car lengths. i would hope no railroader especially a engineer would use the excuse that they couldn't see the banner for more than 150 feet. it's supposed to simulate a real world situation and failure is a very big deal.
No question.
I think the idea is to prevent a "weed weasel" from cheating.
Like the example I gave of someone stepping out with a red flag. The implication is that they can't do that when the train is 50' away.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
GBSD70ACe yeah except part of restricted speed is operating your train in such a manner that you can stop and within half the range of vision, short of TERMS D. it does not mention anything about 3 car lengths. i would hope no railroader especially a engineer would use the excuse that they couldn't see the banner for more than 150 feet. it's supposed to simulate a real world situation and failure is a very big deal. tree68 Without being able to read the FRA's mind, I have to guess, but... I would suppose the rule is to prevent a banner from being placed where it would be impossible for the engineer to respond in time - think of that stop sign that's hidden behind trees until you're right at the intersection.
The rule requires operating at a speed that permits stopping within 1/2 the range of vision, but you don't have to actually stop at the 1/2 way point.
Some years ago there was a manager that failed an engineer because he didn't stop at the 1/2 way point from when the red flag first became visible (coming around a curve) and the actual location of the flag. The failure was thrown out and a clarification was issued on how to apply the rule.
I would guess the 3 car rule isn't in an operating rule book, but rather a manager's manual on how to conduct effeciency tests.
Jeff
The 1/2 the range of vision requirement is to cover the situation of two trains approaching each other in opposite directions. If they both stop in 1/2 their range of vision they will not hit.
In some situations being able to stop a big train in 1/2 the range of vision requires moving very, very, very slowly. Dispatchers or trainmasters have been known to complain about someone following the rule too literally.
Mark Vinski
mvlandswDispatchers or trainmasters have been known to complain about someone following the rule too literally.
"Malicious compliance"
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
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zugmann mvlandsw Dispatchers or trainmasters have been known to complain about someone following the rule too literally. "Malicious compliance"
mvlandsw Dispatchers or trainmasters have been known to complain about someone following the rule too literally.
A few years ago, an engineer (I believe on NS) was disciplined for going too slow when moving at restricted speed. An arbitraitor upheld the discipline.
jeffhergertA few years ago, an engineer (I believe on NS) was disciplined for going too slow when moving at restricted speed. An arbitraitor upheld the discipline.
And if he hit something at that speed, he'd have been dinged, too. Darned if you do...
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