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[wctransfer]

Yes, CN does have the hotplates, people down on the WC love those. But they arent really fond of the GP40LWs and SD40-2Ws. Dont really like anything besides the SD70Is and the Dash 9s. The CN painted IC SD40-2s pull good I hear also. Its not really hilarious that im sad to see an engine go that was the main reason i started liking trains. Ive ran a few SD45s, rode in too many to count, so they are held close to me in terms of favorite engines. Im not gonna say i hate CN for doing it, I mean, without the WC maintenance program, most railroads would retire them.

Alec

[Lord Atmo]

with me, SD45s became high in my favorites when i found that only so many remained. then i see a WC one and i was on cloud 9 that day. i stood on it, in front of it, hung off of the front handrails. it was amazing. i wish i could relive that day. so then i find out it's in a deadline waiting to die. now i KNOW it's dead. it's killing me. honestly. so i cant be sad about the loss of a locomotive i considered special? that's a crime? yes i know i've beaten a dead horse way too much, but i'm still getting flak even after i stop? Alec is right. you dont understand what kind of history the SD45s were. read up about the WC. maybe you'll start to see things differently then

[nordique72]

This just seems to be an argument between fact and emotion- like I said before, there is the contingent of railfans who are endeared to the SD45 because of it's unique flares, or some sort of significant event in their past that involved an SD45. The facts are the SD45s were and always will be known as fuel hogs, thanks to their enormous 20-cylinder 645E3 engines. As for them being "rare"- almost 1300 were built, which in comparison to other six axle models of the time actually ranks quite high until the SD40-2/SD45-2 ilk replaced them in 1972. The important thing to remember though is not to let emotion overcome your ability to reason fact- I'm not saying you can't be sad these units are getting the torch, but getting upset at someone who is just stating fact is going a little overboard. I tend to take more creedence from someone who is an employee of the railroad in question who works on these very engines day in and day out over that of the average railfan.  

As for the history- keep in mind that as soon as the railroads were able to start replacing the SD45s in the mid-80s with newer road service diesels- they did. The main reason why WC picked up the SD45s in their original fleet is because BN was jettisoning them off their roster as fast as they could at bargain basement prices (same thing for MRL). The units were cheap and Ed Burkhardt made the purchase (perhaps in the hopes that the cheap price would offset the fuel hoggery costs.) It is agreed the WC did keep the units looking and running nice- but they had to, they were the backbone of the fleet! It doesn't say anything about what repairs were being done every time the unit went in for it's scheduled maintenance, or what bailing wire and tape magic was being pulled off by North Fondy to keep these things going under the hood. To compare- CNW also made a large purchase of secondhand SD45s in the 80s hoping they could use them as coal service units, but they quickly wised up, realizing the 45s were junk and supplanted their coal fleet with new SD50s and SD60s (and lastly C40-8s)- the secondhand SD45 era on CNW came to a fairly quick end, although a few straggled on until 1993. WC was not as rich as CNW and could not finance the purchase of entire fleets of new units, so they stuck with what made sense- the SD45. I recall reading a quote from when the WC bought their Santa Fe SD45s in the early 90s in which a WC spokesman said the reason the ATSF units were picked up was they were in reasonably good shape, and were easy to maintain since WC already rostered a good number of ex-BN SD45s. From a maintenance perspective- this approach makes sense because repair is easier when a roster contains much or all of the same unit. And consider this- if you were starting up a regional railroad in 1987 and needed some heavy duty six axle power to supplant your inherited roster of SOO's garage sale garbage (GP30s, 35s etc.)- what else out there was available in mass numbers at a cheap price besides the SD45???

[traisessive1]

You are right about the GP40-2W's and the SD40-2W's not being as good to ride in ... but in my case they are a lot better than a standard cab unit. And The GP40-2W's rarely ever lead up here and the SD40-2W's are in trail most of the time.

The Dash 9's , GEVO's and M-2's are my favourites ... then I'd say the 70/75i's, then the cowls and then everything else for riding in.

[Lord Atmo]

the SD45s made WC unique. they were fun to watch and even more fun to photograph. WC wasnt as big of a class 1 like the other ones were, and that also made it cool. CN treats their employees like dirt, cant stop derailing their trains, ran a hideous fleet of locomotives until recently, and now they're getting rid of renmants of WC. it seems like only CN is heartless when it comes to class 1s. THAT'S why i'm mad. WC wasnt as rich. yet they could afford all that fuel for their SD45s somehow. was that due to the lowering of the RPM?

i do like Main, Montreal, and Atlantic though. to me, it seems like a fresh new start for a fresh new WC-styled RR. just with a different name. anyone know if they run any 6-axles yet? all i ever see in pics of them are GE Bs. are they a class 3 or a class 2?

[wctransfer]

Nordique72, not sure if your talking to me or not. But if you were, you'd see in my post I know that they are getting old, and the fuel is a big issue. But the thing that makes them bad engines is the railroad! WC wasnt rich, sure, but dont even think they were scraping in money to get by. The were in the Wall Street journal for profit one year. They may have bought old units cheap, but I'd take a fleet of old SD45s if I had WCs maintanence program. The lowering of the RPM made them much more like the SD40-2. The fuel wasnt a huge deal like many here are making them out to be. And like I said, im not mad at CN for doing this. It saddens me sure, but If I was CN no way would I keep them around. But the fact is, that If its the reason you even go railfan a certain spot, or are happy to see a train come around the corner, its going to make more of a difference than people that DONT have that connection with the certain engine. WC was looking to buy SD70Ms towards the end, so you cant say they couldnt afford it.

And ofcourse these engines are junk now, we've already went over this. CN doesnt take care of much, like stated earlier, because Hunter wants money anyway he can get it. The SD45s were great engines under the WC, many railroads didnt want them like the WC did, but the WC made the most of them, and funny how you could see newer engines braking down and having the SD45 lug them to the next point.

Alec

[coborn35]

Any standard cab unit is worse to ride in than a wide cab. The SD50F's and SD60f's are huge shakers and are very loud with the horn right on the conductors side.

You realize that those ARE NOT standard cab right?

[traisessive1]

Yes lol I do .. I was just stating that those cowls suck to ride in on the most part as well.

Where I am here in Melville ... we are treating very well. The management here is awesome and its such a relaxed atmosphere. CN keeps the cabs of the units stocked and very clean.

It's probably different in the states ... but here in Canda in the division I work in ... it's a great place.

Now the company is trying to push crap labour rules on us ... but the unioins are fighting it hugely and so far it hasn't worked.

CN does a fair job of maintenance in Winnepeg and Edmonton ... I have had a few units die on me already ... but that happens.

[coborn35]

lol ok just wondering haha

 

[nordique72]

Some of my statements were related to your previous posts, and some made by Lord Atmo as well. To clarify some of the things you write- by repowering the SD45s to a lower RPM shows that fuel was an issue to WC, and repowering was an attempt at fuel savings while retaining HP. WC's financial record is one that should be lauded as one of the great success stories of any regional ever created, some say it was too successful, while leading to it's downfall. No one expected WC to be as successful as they were- they were making money, but not enough not justify the purchase of new power apparently until after the CN money started rolling in. To make the point though that WC was looking at SD70Ms says that at the time of the CN buyout- yes WC was successful enough to consider buying new power then- but to apply that same argument to the previous 13 years of WC's life is not sound logic. WC had more important things to spend their capital on in their formative years than new locomotives- the old Lake States trackage was in less than top notch shape and needed complete rebuilding, they needed to build up a freight car fleet, maintain their existant fleet of diesels, even expansion costs of buying the FRVR/GBW/AC- etc. If capitol existed in those formative years to buy new power they would have done it instead of rostering even more SD45s! All engines break down new and old- the WC SD45s were not immune to major mechanical failures. I wish I could count the number of WC SD45s that suffered major failures and were scrapped prior to the CN buyout- it may surprise you. And yes, the WC made the most of their SD45s- but it was out of true necessity, their rebuilding of the 45s shortly before the takeover should be more evidence of that. (Some hairsplitters would even say that because of the rebuilds these units left aren't "true" SD45s- like the MRL's fleet)  Had "new power" capital existed then- it surely would have been used on new units, instead of rebuilds of the exisitng fleet. CN"s got the money- so they're upgrading. I spent my summers in Waupaca County, WI as a kid- I remember the SD45s well and I did like seeing them (I always kind of preferred the BN and ATSF patch units), but my favorite line to see was the GBW and their red Alcos. But remember what WC did to the Alco roster of the GBW right after the 1993 buyout? Same thing as what CN is doing to the SD45s. I didn't hear anyone demonizing Ed Burkhardt for that move- so why make CN out to be so terrible over something like this?

[Lord Atmo]

ALCOs are not of my generation. and i find that SD45s look much better

[wctransfer]

Well, once they got in WC paint, i would like to see the number of units they scrapped. Im pretty positive, that once the WC gave them a new number, they were mostly kept. I know of them scrapping 2 or 3 ex SP SD45s at startup (8999 and 8993, maybe some other numbers). The only other engine I KNOW that they scrapped was the WC 6655, later becoming and F45. The scrap number could not have been above 5, if so, i'll be shocked. Once the WC gave them a number and paint, most all of them were kept.

It seems like you still like to keep making excuses that the WC SD45s werent good power. I understand they are old, and you say the WC HAD to make the most of them. True, but just because they HAD to doesnt mean they should be looked upon as horrible locomotives. They were great, and for people to still feed me the "they are old and outdated"stuff is not entirely true. Being almost completely rebuilt through there lives, its hard to say that SD40-2s are better *in terms of running condition*

Alec

[ShopsYardMaster]

Alec-

The 3 ex-SP 45's were 8939, 8993, and 9093. They were actually part of the Oxford lease fleet, along with ex-NS 1701(now on Montana RailLink), 1718, 1724, 1737(parts only), and 1744-1746, along with a few ex-BN 45's(6510, 6553). The original 6655 was the first painted 45 for the WC, unfortunately, it didn't last long and was cannabalized at NFDL. The ex-SP's also didn't last long in lease service(to CSX and UP), and were stored out of service by late '89-early '90. Ex-BN 6538 and 6548 were damaged in a wreck, and was 6538 rebuilt with parts from 1737(mostly hood parts still in Norfolk & Western lettering), while 6548 was rebuilt with the nose off of a UP SD unit, #3639(SD-40-2?).

[wctransfer]

Ahh, ok. Had a feeling my numbers werent right. But you dont remember many engines being retired while on the WC do you? Im having a hard time seeing this.

Alec

[EJE818]

CN did repaint a IC GP10 into fresh IC paint. Expect that to be moving to the Homewood Railroad Park along with a IC caboose. I think they should slow down just a bit on repainting the DM&IR engines. Oh well, if they repaint all of those EJ&E has some SDMs in DM&IR paint working Kirk Yard in Gary that I want to see soon. I wonder how long the remaining 2 dozen or so WC SD45s have left. I hear CN is powe short.