Just did a quick check on eBay for a Walther's Blast Furnace (HO)
Buy it now price: $599 (This thing was like $120 when it came out) Walther's Car Shop $299 (It was like $40 when it was out) Even to someone with somewhat deep pockets, like me, this is insane!
Checking this persons "other" OOP auctions reveals they are all also vastly overpriced.
What I'm seeing here is not a collector of trains who happened to have an extra kit he's not going to use. He's purely a greedy speculative buyer.
Yeah yeah I know. If he has it, he has a right to charge what he wants for it. But in my book he's no better than a scalper. It's just not an honest way to do business.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Welcome to the world of OOP Selling. I previously stated that this hobby will suffer when OOP Kits take off in insane amounts of profits to the Ebay seller. Why?
Because they continue to be out of production.
I sold the Walther's Barge and Float set and took advantage of the hot market for them some years back. The profit I saw on those items were quite substantial. I love the American Auction system as the Bidders themselves set the market.
The day Walthers (or anyone else for that matter) gets out of bed and brings back the OOP Kits, there will be a rush of air going out of the rapidly deflating ebay sales when they realize they can get the kit once again at the LHS retail for a heck of alot less than ebay.
In fact, I think some ebayers already established themselves with a bankroll, buy a garage full of kits, store it until it goes OOP, wait a year and then issue them onto ebay one by one for very nice profit margins.
DigitalGriffin wrote:Just did a quick check on eBay for a Walther's Blast Furnace (HO)Buy it now price: $599 (This thing was like $120 when it came out) Walther's Car Shop $299 (It was like $40 when it was out) Even to someone with somewhat deep pockets, like me, this is insane!Checking this persons "other" OOP auctions and they are also vastly overpriced.What I'm seeing here is not a collector of trains who happened to have an extra kit he's not going to use. He's purely a greedy speculative buyer. Yeah yeah I know. If he has it, he has a right to charge what he wants for it. But in my book he's no better than a scalper. It's just not an honest way to do business.
Checking this persons "other" OOP auctions and they are also vastly overpriced.
"The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil."
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage wrote: DigitalGriffin wrote:Just did a quick check on eBay for a Walther's Blast Furnace (HO)Buy it now price: $599 (This thing was like $120 when it came out) Walther's Car Shop $299 (It was like $40 when it was out) Even to someone with somewhat deep pockets, like me, this is insane!Checking this persons "other" OOP auctions and they are also vastly overpriced.What I'm seeing here is not a collector of trains who happened to have an extra kit he's not going to use. He's purely a greedy speculative buyer. Yeah yeah I know. If he has it, he has a right to charge what he wants for it. But in my book he's no better than a scalper. It's just not an honest way to do business. "The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil."Tom
Yes, but as the great Homer Simpson has taught us, it is alcohol that is "the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
DigitalGriffin wrote: Just did a quick check on eBay for a Walther's Blast Furnace (HO)Buy it now price: $599 (This thing was like $120 when it came out)
Buy it now price: $599 (This thing was like $120 when it came out)
I guess it's time for me to write that blast furnace scratchbuilding article I've been planning...
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
I don't see this as an example of price gouging. You don't need one of the models to live, its something you might want for a hobby. If someone will pay the inflated prices, all the better for the seller.
I'm sure if you came across a brand new box of 25 year old kits that you wouldn't generously offer them for sale at their original list prices. It's called supply and demand. Someone has a kit and if you want it bad enough, you have to pay their price, or do without. It isn't a charity.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Bob;
Very well stated, as usual.
People claim to want free enterprise - which is governed by supply and demand - but then complain about it..........
Railphotog wrote: I don't see this as an example of price gouging. You don't need one of the models to live, its something you might want for a hobby. If someone will pay the inflated prices, all the better for the seller.I'm sure if you came across a brand new box of 25 year old kits that you wouldn't generously offer them for sale at their original list prices. It's called supply and demand. Someone has a kit and if you want it bad enough, you have to pay their price, or do without. It isn't a charity.
Agreed Bob. I've seen lots of things on Ebay that I thought were overpriced at the opening bid, so I didn't bid on them. Some of them even closed with no bids. I decide how much I am willing to pay for something and bid that. If someone outbids me, they take it. That's the nature of an auction. It's not a life-or-death situation so I just keep looking.
I've also sold some things on Ebay that surprised me as to how high the closing bid went. Of course, I took the money.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
DigitalGriffin wrote: Just did a quick check on eBay for a Walther's Blast Furnace (HO)Buy it now price: $599 (This thing was like $120 when it came out) Walther's Car Shop $299 (It was like $40 when it was out) Even to someone with somewhat deep pockets, like me, this is insane!Checking this persons "other" OOP auctions reveals they are all also vastly overpriced.What I'm seeing here is not a collector of trains who happened to have an extra kit he's not going to use. He's purely a greedy speculative buyer. Yeah yeah I know. If he has it, he has a right to charge what he wants for it. But in my book he's no better than a scalper. It's just not an honest way to do business.
Then don't do business with him. Surely you're not the kind of person who likes to hit himself in the thumb with a hammer because it feels so good when you stop.
BRAKIE wrote:Guys,What you are seeing is a speculator in action..Like a leech he lives off of the gullible modeler's weakness of wanting a certain kit,locomotive or freight car.
Larry, are you funnin' us again? Leech? Don't people fish with leeches, 'cuz they're really good bait.
Seriously, though, do you really stand by the sentiment you seem to imply with your statement? That sentiment is, to my understanding, that if I ask $3000 for a clapped out 1968 VW Beetle, I instantly become a leech when someone values it to that extent, making his duly legitimate personal choice, and actually pays that much for it? It is somehow my fault that this person has a "weakness" for old VW Beetles....and actually wants this one?
I don't get it.
The difference is this person isn't a collector. They are a speculator who sucked up supply from the open market just so he can charge more for it later.
If I decide to sell my kit(s), I'll probably sell it for a lil bit more than I paid for it. BUT I was never in it to make a buck in the first place. That's the difference. I have no problem making a profit that way. I know there's a lot of modelers out there who don't have the pockets I do. So if I can get them a kit at a reasonable price and they use it, then it serves it's purpose. What I do and share with regards to MRR, including advice, is for love of the hobby, not profit.
Your right, it's a free market. But I never considered short term "flipping" an honest income.
DigitalGriffin wrote: Your right, it's a free market. But I never considered short term "flipping" an honest income.
Why not honest? They take on the risk of speculative buying to resell (or 'flip') for a profit. People do it all the time with real estate (or at least they used to ).
Also, it's not like they are being unethical by doing this with essential commodities during a dire shortage such as gasoline, medical supplies, or food.
I have seen this happen with Central Valley trucks and kits at train shows.
There are also web sites dealing in OOP kits. http://www.fsmkits.homestead.com and http://hometown.aol.com/craftsmankits/FSM_KITS.htm for example
These are now collectibiles and like antiques subject to their own supply and demand.
You can duplicate the theme of these old kits with castings, other parts, and scale lumber currently available. Grandt Line and others make lots of parts. Mt Albert http://mtalbert.com/ and other have scale lumber and basswood sheets.
Enjoy
Paul
DigitalGriffin wrote: But I never considered short term "flipping" an honest income.
But I never considered short term "flipping" an honest income.
My question is what is "Abhoriouis "? Never heard that word!
This points out several things:
I was reading an article in Readers Digest recently, where a person sold a Barbie Doll from the 50's and received $5000 on EBay. So if there is a buyer, and he/she is willing to pay the price that the seller wants....so be it !!!!
Several months ago on Ebay, the Walthers transfer table sold for a bit over $600 and the extension kit sold for another $150. I wanted the transfer table and managed to win one several days later for a bit over $100 and a week later won the extension kit for a bit over $60. Weeks later I won a 14 piece grouping of Cornerstone kits for $225 and it included a transfer table and two extension kits. I have managed to get many good buys on Ebay, but I always go into bidding with my 'limit' in mind. Sadly, others get caught up in the ego trip of having to win the bid without regard to the price.
Dave Vollmer wrote:Yes, but as the great Homer Simpson has taught us, it is alcohol that is "the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
"Beer is not the answer. It is the question. Yes is the answer."
Virginian wrote:Doesn't bother me if someone else wants to pay that. Now, all those rare, silver, Tyco "Virginian" hopper cars, THEY bother me. I think Tyco made more of those than Virginian had of the real thing, and they will not go away ! Clog up every search.
"virginian" -tyco
Right? Knocks any listing with Tyco in it out of the returns.
MAbruce wrote:Also, it's not like they are being unethical by doing this with essential commodities during a dire shortage such as gasoline, medical supplies, or food.
What is so unethical about that? What if gas is in short supply and the gas station doesn't raise the price? You'll go there and fill your tank full. Maybe you'll even bring your wife's car and fill that up to just in case. Now the next 50 people do that and the gas is gone. Now the following 50 people have no gas at all.
If the price was higher, maybe you would have only half filled your tank and not filled your wife's car. That would have gotten you by and the next 50 and the following 50 people could have gotten gas too. A high price also gives business the incentive to bear the extra cost to get more gas there faster and the gas shortage is over quicker and all people have more gas sooner.
Food is another excellent example. I work for a company that is based in Raleigh, North Carolina. If they even have a threat of snow, you better run to the store and get bread and milk if you want any at all. It's a bit of a joke that happens to be true. People get all nervous and empty the store shelves, hoarding milk and bread and some get none at all. If the stores raised their prices with the oncoming threat of snow, then people would only buy what they really need and there would be enough bread and milk for everyone.
This applies to model railroad kits as well. Don't you think that Walther's and other manufacturers see these high prices? Well, if they last, Walther's is certainly smart enough to see there is a demand and re-introduce the kit. If they don't someone else will make a similar one.
ericboone wrote:I work for a company that is based in Raleigh, North Carolina. If they even have a threat of snow, you better run to the store and get bread and milk if you want any at all. It's a bit of a joke that happens to be true. People get all nervous and empty the store shelves, hoarding milk and bread and some get none at all.
Now, you REALLY want to start a run on the stores, just say, 'Hugo."
Midnight Railroader wrote: ericboone wrote:I work for a company that is based in Raleigh, North Carolina. If they even have a threat of snow, you better run to the store and get bread and milk if you want any at all. It's a bit of a joke that happens to be true. People get all nervous and empty the store shelves, hoarding milk and bread and some get none at all. You forgot to mention that only about an inch of snow falls, and melts the next day, leaving those people with lots of extra bread and milk that they end up throwing away. (I know, I lived in Charlotte.) Now, you REALLY want to start a run on the stores, just say, 'Hugo."
I was in Raleigh a couple years ago when they got an inch of snow in the afternoon and it literally shut the whole town down. It started snowing and everybody got out on the roads to get home and packed the snow into ice. The roads were giant parking lots. People's normal 30 minute commutes took 12 hours. People ran out of gas. Me and a couple co-workers were riding with a co-worker who lived there and got out of his car and ran the 5 miles back to our hotel to let him turn towards home. When we woke up in the morning, we found that normal commuters had stopped and camped out in our hotel lobby for the night. What a mess and it was just one inch.
That same Friday I was back in Minnesota and we got 9 inches of snow in the afternoon. I simply waited until after rush hour and drove home with few problems. Yes the road wasn't plowed and the snow scraped the underside of the car, but I made it home in 1 hour verses my normal half hour drive. Not bad.
selector wrote: BRAKIE wrote:Guys,What you are seeing is a speculator in action..Like a leech he lives off of the gullible modeler's weakness of wanting a certain kit,locomotive or freight car.Larry, are you funnin' us again? Leech? Don't people fish with leeches, 'cuz they're really good bait.Seriously, though, do you really stand by the sentiment you seem to imply with your statement? That sentiment is, to my understanding, that if I ask $3000 for a clapped out 1968 VW Beetle, I instantly become a leech when someone values it to that extent, making his duly legitimate personal choice, and actually pays that much for it? It is somehow my fault that this person has a "weakness" for old VW Beetles....and actually wants this one?I don't get it.
Selector,No..As a former part time train show dealer I seen speculators in action..They buy up llimited runs,oop items and charge high dollar to the unlearn..Sadly I see comon locomotives go for 3 times what they are actually worth.Its sad because a lot of those oop items can be found at reasonable prices by looking and asking around.After all the use market is alive and well and so many modelers doesn't think of looking around for use oop items.
Eric, the laws prohibiting price-gouging are meant to protect the general population by making the basis necessities of life available in a time of crisis to the most number of people at what would the the, "normal," prices. Speculation as to whether someone would only buy half a tank of gas if the price were high thus leaving more for other people is just that, speculation.
None of this has anything to do with selling model railroad equipment over e-bay. What is disturbing is the feeling I get from reading some of these comments; it almost seems that there may be some who think that these e-bay sellers, and/or their prices, should be regulated. Maybe Congress could step in and have some committee hearings and set us little people in our place, since we obiviously don't know how to control our buying habits.
But I think there is one overlooked aspect of this issue. Why are some almost angry to the point of cursing. Is it because someone on e-bay is trying to sell something at 10 to 20% over MSRP? Or is it because the buyer is not able to purchase the item for 60% off list? People are angry because they think someone is selling something for more than it is worth when, at the same time they are trying to get it for a whole lot less than it is worth. Someone once said, "It's a funny stick that doesn't have two ends." Think about it.
By the way, I have never sold nor purchased anything from e-bay.
Famous saying....''theres a sucker born every minute''......EBAY is proof of this!! I shop EBAY frequently, but I have a set of rules that I NEVER deviate from, and so far I haven't been stung.
If someone wants those OOP kits they will pay what is asked for them......no matter how ridiculous it seems. I personally steer clear of those hi-price auctions.